Government seizure of property might be a joke

How can the government lawfully seize property as a forfeiture?

It has been called unconstitutional. In my opinion it is, but the fact is that there is another reason it is illegal.

Every forfeiture case challenges the right of a sovereign to somehow "give up" their property as a result of law breaking as an automatic punishment for crimes of certain natures, without proof or trial in a court of law.

For example, many states have DUI/DWI laws which include forfeiture laws that make it mandatory after a certain number of convictions/infractions that a violator give up their automobile. Similar laws apply to drug offenses.

The reason the government can get away with this without too much hassle is because when a forfeiture is filed, the defendant is listed as the forfeited item.

Here is a case in point from my local legal journal, Daily Court Reporter:

Seized Property Notice

PUBLIC NOTICE A civil complaint, United States v. United States Currency $2,936.00, Case No. 3:07CV125, seeking forfeiture pursuant to 21 U.S.C §881(a)(6) of the Defendant Currency was filed on April 2, 2007, in the United States District Court for the Southern District of Ohio, Western Division at Dayton, Ohio. The Defendant currency to be effected is Two Thousand Nine Hundred Thirty-Six Dollars.

The bolding is mine. This is not saying the defendant's currency is $2936. It is saying the defendant is the currency. This same wording is applied to boats, cars, guns, and houses. The defendants in these cases are the forfeited property, which is why they are always transferred from the rightful owner to the government.

While John Doe is in jail for charges, his property is being seized under legal statutes that give local police the right to take it. The prosecutor files a forfeiture case listing the property as the defendant and no one comes to represent the said defendant, because it is not a citizen, human, animal or anything with any rights.

The only person that could represent the defendant is a lawyer, which is pretty silly since $2936 cannot hire anyone since it isn't actually a person.

This is why it is unlawful. Objects are being tried in a court.

Yes in forfeiture cases the object government wants becomes the criminal and so they seize the property, auction it off, and then you get to defend yourself, and maybe if you paid the right lawyers with the right number of bills, you just maybe get an apology from the government.

Forfeiture is old as the hills.
Back in the witch hunting days the snitch got 1/3, the witch finder got 1/3 and the church got 1/3 of all property value. Today the drug police get their cut, the state gets its cut, and the fed gets its cut. Nothing has changed.


Private property ownership is a fraud, they can take your property for any reason.
If they can't come up with a good one, they can just condemn it and then throw you off it.

Cars? There is no constitutional right to a car, its a privilege, getting a license says you agree to all their terms and conditions, maybe even give away your organs.

reply to post by Legalizer

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Right and wrong, Look up "allodial title" which usually refers to land and property rights, The reason most of the country pays a property tax is because they don't own the Property they are a co-owner with the State they only own whats on top of the property ie; real estate.

As far as vehicles its basically the same deal look up "manufacturer certificate of origin"

If you're able to get the full rights to either of these things you Don't have to pay a property tax, nor a Car tax or have a license to drive that car.

All rights are derived from property, the trick is making sure that property is acually yours,


technically speaking at least from what I've read into it, I would assume the state doesn't really need "permission" to search your vehicle...

[edit on 5-1-2008 by C0le]

"You have no rights to property or person". Quoted by Me. It's a fact that is becoming more and more evident. Resistance is futile. But, what the hell, resist anyway, that way no one can say you didn't try.

[edit on 8-1-2008 by kyred]

reply to post by C0le


I'm curious, so how does one get the "full rights" to properties such as those?