It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

JFK -Irrefutable Proof- the driver did not shoot Kennedy.

page: 1
3
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 06:07 PM
link   
I've seen alot of JFK conspiracy theorists, even some major names jumping on the driver did it bandwagon.

Even when it was clear to me -at regular speed- that it was just a trick of light, and the sun reflection off the passengers forehead creating an image that looked like a gun.

Here is the definitive proof in my opinion, the driver didn't do anything wrong, but slow down when the shots were fired. He never had a gun, he only looked back at the president.

Shown here:

www.youtube.com...

and here...

www.jfklancer.com...

I hope the Limo driver did it theory can rest in peace for good.

Ok now that that's out of the way, I don't believe in the lone guneman theory. I'm more of a 2 or 3 shooters, and a big proponent of the sewer shot theory.

Here is another very important video, which shows this was a set up from the get go, and not just a lone gunman. Tell me could oswald have made this happen (which ultimately gave him a clear shot?)

www.youtube.com...

The conspiracy goes deep, and I think the PTB wanted JFK out of office because he wouldn't go for the False flag terror attacks in and around Cuba. I don't think the mob was involved, although they may have hired Oswald and/or Ruby.

But the final headshot was not from Oswald I believe this assasination goes as deep as the highest levels of the U.S. government, the CIA ect.



[edit on 3-1-2008 by Nola213]




posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 08:11 PM
link   
I agree with you. I think its plenty obvious JFK wasn't shot by his driver. I believe the driver knew something though. He didn't speed off until after he'd seen JFK had been shot. I believe there had been a shot fired before that right? Anyway, have you ever checked out the KGB files on the JFK assasination? The Soviets immediatley believed they would be blamed and started an investigation immediatley. Many Soviets thought this would start a nuclear war with the U.S. I'll try to find it and post it if you'd like to check it out.



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 08:22 PM
link   
Try and google the names.....James Files and James Sutton and see what comes up.Some interesting stuff.



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 03:04 AM
link   
reply to post by totallyhuman
 


I actually did read up On Mr. Files, they trying to pin him as the "badge man" on the grassy gnoll.

I don't see it, the guy seems more like a low level wanna be mobster. Not a hitman.

I believe this was too well coordinated, and the CIA and PTB had to be involved.

It's a shame too because although I wasn't alive when JFK was, I think he was a very great man. His brother Robert as well.

It's just sad and tragic. You could go on a Joe Pesci tiraede like in the film JFK, thats it's an enigma wrapped up in a conspiracy, ect, ect, or whatever he says. So many facets to it all, thats how the gov gets away with these things.

Remind's me of 9/11.



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 05:41 AM
link   
I think what was said by Mr. Files could be true.Or not.But the main thing is that the government has been covering things up for many years and they are not about to let the American public know what they really do.Just look at the shape this country is in.I for the life of me cannot understand why we are in a deficit in this country when we make paper money every day!This country should have no problem with money at all.There are more than 2 places making this paper money every day.This makes no sense to me.As far as 9/11/01 goes....I will never beleive what the "official" story said happened.It is like a stopped up toilet.It just don't flush.By the way..........I like the Avatar.

[edit on 4-1-2008 by totallyhuman]



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 07:19 AM
link   
I do NOT believe that the driver was mistaken..he turned and extended his left arm along his body and placed his left hand, with an object in it, over his right shoulder and at that exact moment Kennedys head explodes. Either it was coincidence and the driver did not shoot because the job was done already, or he did shoot and that is what caused the LEFT side injuries shown and testified to on the Pres. 's head.

It is NOT a trick of light..I have examined that film a hundred times and the driver clearly turns and moves his left arm over his body and over his right shoulder. WHY would anyone move their arm like that if all they were doing was turing their head? It makes no sense to do that unless one was about to shoot.

These videos that purport to show the truth are nothing but a wish list of impossible claims and have nothing to support them. The driver turned and placed a pistol along his body and turned to fire. If he did fire, that would explain Jackie leaping from the limo, trying to get away from the source of the gunfire.

Don't believe all the silly videos that keep showing the driver with a gun and trying to say it isn't there..it is.



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 07:23 AM
link   
By the way, the JFK Lancer link always STOPS the film just prior to the shooting!! Watch it. The film stops every time before the shots are fired, making it look like the driver didn't do anything..but if they had moved forward a few frames , we would see the arm come across and see the pistol. Stopping the video before the right time is cheating and a false report. It is meant to alter the truth.



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 01:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by eyewitness86
By the way, the JFK Lancer link always STOPS the film just prior to the shooting!! .


Not the second video just underneath the first. It shows the driver the entire time, though the fatal head shot occurance, it just doesn't show Kennedy.

I dunno what to tell you, believe what you will. To me it's obvious the supposed gun is the grey hair of the passenger, and the limo drivers hand supposedly hoding the gun is the passengers (skin colored) forehead.

To me it's as plain as the nose on my face.

Also small, heck even a large caliber handgun would not do the damage that was done to Kennedy's head. Only a high powered rifle would do that sort of thing.

Don't you think if the Driver was the intended hitman, he'd use a low caliber handgun with a silencer, like a .22 and put 2 shots in JFK's head? That's how a proffessional Hit is done.

I can't believe people still believe that the limo driver did anything except maybe slow the car down so the fatal shot could be delivered from the right fornt of the vehicle, from a high power rifle. That leads me to another thing, IF the driver did make that head shot. Kennedy's head woulda went back and to the right, NOT back and to the left, as is evident from a shot coming from the right side near the grassy gnoll, or the Storm drain.

Not from a shot coming from front left, where the driver was sitting in relation to Kennedy.

But all of this discussion imo is needless, since in the First video, which is 1 frame. whats that, 1/20th, mayne 1/15th of a second if Zapruders camera was running at 15 frames per second, Even if it was Runnng at 5 frames per second. In the first video which is the frame before the fatal head shot, that would give the driver 0.2 seconds to produce a weapon. Humanly impossible. Unless your telling me there is a gun in that first video.

Is that your contension? That there's a gun in the First video I posted? Because if not, then i'm sorry, your argument is pretty much shot down (no pun intended).



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 02:19 PM
link   
There's so much speculation on this. But without having actually been there and witnessed and known every detail, it's an endless game of who done it. John Lear has also made mention of this story and I believe said it wasn't the mob afterall. The one other thing I have to mention is about JFKs head exploding. I believe someone mentioned something about exploding bullets? And was there glass between the drivers compartment or was that an electric window as in typical limos?

I can't believe with so many people who have died since then, such as in Vietnman, that we spend so much time pondering the what if he lived scenerio? It may not have made any major difference that way anyway.

I spent part of childhood confused and somewhat traumatized after seeing my mother cry and sob during his funeral on T.V. JFK was not Jesus christ you know.

[edit on 4-1-2008 by aleon1018]



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 02:27 PM
link   
Personally, I believe that one of his security personnel shot him. A security guard driving in the car behind him, to be more in-depth.

I'd try to go into more detail why I think that's true, but it's one of those things that I just believe. Can't explain it.



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 02:35 PM
link   
Here's our resident CT experts take on this subject. Found it in Jim Marrs forum, because I was wondering what his stance was on the limo driver shooting Kennedy.

"One conspiracy theory to which I do not subscribe is the idea that JFK was shot by his driver. I have looked into this closely and I know the genesis of this story. A careful examination of the Zapruder film will show that the driver, William Greer, never takes his hands off the steering wheel of the Lincoln limousine. What appears to be a gun and a shot are illusions created by sun highlights reflecting off the greased hair of SS Agent Kellerman riding shotgun and a flash of sunlight off the metal frame of the car’s privacy window separating the driver from the rear of the car." - Jim Marrs.


I was actually gonna originally post this thread in his forum because for some reason I thought he supported the Limo Driver shooter theory. I don't know why I thought that, but I was pleasently suprised to find this statement made by him.

You can find this statement by him, in this thread, it's in his first reply to the OP's question.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 07:08 PM
link   
It was reported by Jackie herself that she was trying to retrieve part of JFK's skull on the trunk of the car.That's why she leaned over the back of the car.



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 07:53 PM
link   
Read up on the "Policy Committee." Theyre a group out of San diego or San francisco who supposedly OK'D the assasination.

[edit on 4-1-2008 by topsecretombomb]



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 08:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
Read up on the "Policy Committee." Theyre a group out of San diego or San francisco who supposedly OK'D the assasination.

[edit on 4-1-2008 by topsecretombomb]


Will do, I don't believe, I've ever hear of that before, and I've dug through alot of JFK stuff. I'm no expert but it's been a sort of thing I look into in my free time since I first got on the internet. Since I just really though he was a great man, and my parents told me how much the people of america loved him.

Lately I've been sidetracked though with digging for 9/11 truth information, I would say for the last 2-3 years, so JFK has taken the perverbial backseat for now. But all the posts about the limo driver doing it, like case closed, it's been solved, I just couldn't help to point out , what to me seems so rediculously obvious there is no gun in the drivers hand or in the car anywhere that can be seen in the Zapruder film.

But this Policy comitee thing I may have seen it and just don't remember ,then again I may never read it before, and it may shed some well needed light on this, so thank you very much for the info!

[edit on 4-1-2008 by Nola213]



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 08:25 PM
link   
I heard somewhere that the US Secret Service agent that was driving the limo was not a presidential detail agent and that he was an agent from the USSS Dallas Field Office on temporary assignment to the presidential detail to provide additional manpower for President Kennedy's visit which explains why he slowed down when the shooting started rather then speed up and get the hell out as the presidential detail agents are instructed to do. The agent in the passenger seat and the chase car were however all presidential detail agents.

As for why a Dallas Field Office agent was driving rather then a presidential detail agent I dont know. Perhaps thats the conspiracy?



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 08:26 PM
link   
Interesting read. I found a short concise version of what this Policy Comittee thing was.

archive.newsmax.com...

What's odd about this, my old man, my Dad who was in his mid to late 20's when JFK was killed , he always said that LBJ was behind it all, and I've never took him seriously. But whenever I'd bring up the subject that's all he'd say, he had nothing but contempt for the man(LBJ).

I'm sure he'd love to see this article.

Thanks again for pointing it out to me.



posted on Jan, 4 2008 @ 08:34 PM
link   
reply to post by ChrisF231
 


Well I'm not saying the Driver may have been in on this, slowing the vehicle down to under 10 mph after the first couple shots were fired. Totally against protocal and training. Some say he may have just been scared and reacted badly under pressure.

Then there are others (eye witnesses in the plaza that day) that say the Limo came to a complete stop, then the killshot was delivered, and the driver sped off. That the Zapruder film was tampered with, as to not show this, but to only show the limo slow down a bit.

There's a video on you tube that tries to point out a bunch of discrepencies with the Zapruder film, I can't name them all, but bottom line many believe the film was edited, and tampered with, and wasn't done very well due to the limited ability to edit video back then.

Here's a link to the video of the supposed alterations in the Zapruder film if anyones interested.

www.youtube.com...

So maybe this driver was a key figure in the plot, I'm not saying he wasn't involved.

All I'm saying is he NEVER produces nor fires a weapon in the official Zapruder film.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 05:43 AM
link   
it shows a bunch of pre-selected still shots and never shows the whole video or multiple shots in sequence for a comparison.
and yes it never does actually show the moment of "bang bang"....lol

if it was trying to show us the driver didn`t do it, then wouldn`t it
also include one of the actual videos that claim it was the driver?
um...for a comparison?

looks like an attempt to de-bunk. but why?



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 11:21 AM
link   
Shots came from one source...Oswald. Do the complete research.
Look at the computer model youtube videos...they prove it.

Connelly seated 3" lower than Kennedy

Connelly seated 6" more inward than Kennedy, and turned to the right.

Last shot was from behind, because of entrance wound. Yes, his head jerked backward, only after it moved forward first. There was no entrance wound from the front.

Oswald did it....but that doesn't mean there wasn't a conspiracy. Jack Ruby killed the guy who killed Kennedy.

Oswald either acted on his own, or was used by evil forces to do the deed. Might not ever know the answer to that one.

No "magic" bullet. No grassy knoll. Do the research and the truth will set you free!



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 12:26 PM
link   
reply to post by LiamStemrad
 



The only problem I have with this, is that the bullet that was to inflict all these wounds, which is possible, I saw a Sharpshooter do it on a Show on the History Channel or discovery, it was like a mythbusters thing.

However the problem is the bullet was a mangled mess, and broke up. Nothing like the "near" pristine bullet they found on the stretcher that was supposed to do all that damage.

Also there are more shots than they can account for from Oswald. The one that hit Kenedy in the back of the neck passing through his throat, then doing all sorts of damage to Connely, breaking a rib, and fracturing his wrist, ending up in his thigh I believe(1), the Headshot(2), a miss hitting the curb(3), another miss grazing an onlookers face(4), and one last miss, leaving a bullet hole at the top frame of the windshield(5).

Now could 3 and 4 be the same bullet?, quite possibly. But still thats four shots. Isn't it the Warren commissions contension Oswald only fired 3 shots? Correct me if I'm wrong, I may very well be, maybe the said he got off 4, I don't remember offhand.

But anyhow, the first shot that did all this damage to kennedy and connely, being found on a stretcher in again "near" pristine condition, slighty squeezed toward the rear, it just doesn't add up. That bullet should have fragmented.

I'm too tired to look through the Warren Commision's findings again and this isn't really the point of the thread, the point of the thread is whether or not the Driver had and fired a gun in the Zapruder film.

As to why I didn't post the Zapruder film which everyone thinks shows the Driver shooting kennedy. I think that'd be a little redundant, everyone has seen it a hundred times,well anyone who is serious about looking into the whole JFK conspiracy.

I dunno what else to say, if you can't see what is tricking people into believing that the limo driver shot JFK in the first video I posted, and in the second video on Flicker, and you still think the driver had a firearm in his hand after watching those, then re-watching the Zapruder film, (with liberal use of the pause button), the only advice I can give is have your eyes checked out.


[edit on 5-1-2008 by Nola213]



new topics

top topics



 
3
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join