An A10 Warthog close air support close call with British troops.

I thought the first little fragment of the video was it and then BAM! My stomach sank into my knees! Thanks for sharing.

Great videos folks. I've saved the source for more funfilled hours of viewing.

Originally posted by Sanity Lost
Great videos folks. I've saved the source for more funfilled hours of viewing.

I really hope that's some sort of humour where you come from - that second vid showed people from my country dieing at the hands of an American pilot. Wouldn't mind so much if someone stood trial.

Sanity - one chance to make friends, first impressions etc.

That first vid was amazing. But I gotta say, fark I love the British accent!

As for that 2nd video, it was just very very sad to watch. It was like when you watch a movie and you know what's going to happen, and you're just screaming, like an idiot, at the screen to try and stop it from happening.

Though, what I saw was that the pilots did wait for confirmation that there were no friendlies in the area before attacking. And almost as soon as they realised what they had done they asked how they were down there.

While the pilots were in the wrong, I just don't think they should take the full blame for this.

All I can say is that it was a terrible tragedy for all involved. Those poor Brits must have been scared out of their minds

reply to post by Now_Then


The humor was not intended in direct reference to the video in question. It only refers to other videos on liveleak.com from which this video comes.

I find nothing funny myself about the death and pain of others.

The fact that these guys have seen the Orange flashes on the vehicles lets you know that they have seen a clearly recognisable NATO recognition symbol… designed with pilots of all NATO nations in mind… Designed to be observable from 10’000ft on a clear day.

One question you really have to ask yourselves… If you were to buy/design/build a rocket carrying armoured vehicle, to be used in a theatre of war. You would paint it in a way so that it blends in with the natural environment surrounding it; camouflaged so that enemy eyes won’t so easily see it when it’s parked.
Would you really put bright orange rockets it???
Rockets that you can clearly see from 10’000ft???

Yes I will admit that during the heat of battle mistakes happen, but on the vid you can clearly see the aircraft flying a holding pattern with no fire being directed at them… so there is no heat of battle in this particular scenario…

As others have noted on this thread, you only ever hear the bad stories never the good… how may times have A-10 pilots dropped their wad right on the bad guys??
How many lives have they saved? Those are something we will never know; only the guys and girls there at the time will know.

But on the opposite foot, how many times do we hear about the British GR-4’s or GR-9’s having blue on blue??
Or the Dutch F-16’s in the Stan??

Major work is needed for some aspects of the American military machine! To put it simply; the incompetence of a few is affecting the hard work and dedication of the many…

I can't see the original video, apparently it has been removed off Liveleak. Anyone else got a link?

reply to post by pueblos

But on the opposite foot, how many times do we hear about the British GR-4’s or GR-9’s having blue on blue??

Context: the entire contingent of the forces you mention are many magnitudes smaller than the US presence. By raw odds the chances of having a friendly fire accident with those assets is geometrically smaller.

Also, Tornado's were designed for airfield denial originally. Totally different mission. The A-10, by design (close air support tank buster), will be in situations that lend itself towards a blue on blue scenario.

Also, the Danish f-16's you mention are no more than a handfull in number, thereby mandating the odds are lower by sheer volume of aircraft and hence opportunity. In addition to that, non-US countries flying the F-16 do not have the same capabilities. They are sold - on purpose - that way.

The theory being you never sell another country capabilities to match your own; in case you have to fight that very country at a later date. The airframes are exactly the same. The electronics, avionics etc contained within those airframes are very different. Hence, the capabilities are different.

[edit on 6-1-2008 by SlightlyAbovePar]

Slightlyabovepar

Yes the RAF presence in the Stan and eye-rack is a lot smaller than the USAF effort, due mainly to the RAF being a smaller entity. This does ‘’lower’’ the percentage chance of a blue on blue engagement, not completely eliminate it!! The fact remains the A-10 fleet has had a higher proportion of blue on blue than any other platform type, regardless of service or nationality… the question remains, WHY?

Before you say it’s because the A-10 has a COIN role that no other aircraft has, re-watch the Video. There you can clearly see the aircraft is operating in a ‘’Taxi Rank’’ pattern (flying in a holding pattern awaiting trade), not in a classical COIN pattern. I have sat under an A-10 attack (last year) as well as a dozen GR-9 attacks. All the frames operated low enough to see if the pilot had brushed his teeth, in classical COIN fashion.

The original role of the Tornado was IDS, Interdiction and Strike, the GR-1 entered RAF service as a low-level conventional supersonic bomber and high-level nuclear bomber. This role was increased by the addition of new types of weapon systems to include runway denial; by the introduction of the JP233 weapon system… this was not the original role.

The F-16 I mentioned were Dutch, not Danish. Their capability is different to the USAF frames due to the necessity of the countries air force being smaller. Dutch/Belgian/Danish and Norwegian F-16 (to name but a few) are pure multi-role combat aircraft, able to fly missions that USAF frames can not.

Regards P

reply to post by stumason


I can describe the original vid.

Brits in a very forward position in a trench, in the near distance is that A10 growl / roar of the 30mm. Then 15 foot to the right of them they really experience a near miss!! The tone of their language was EXTREMELY well moderated considering what may of happened. They then fell back.

I should learn how to grab those vids before they go missing.

Originally posted by pueblos
Major work is needed for some aspects of the American military machine! To put it simply; the incompetence of a few is affecting the hard work and dedication of the many…

Nice post - suppose the reason we always hear about the yanks is cos they are the most involved in wars, blue on blue does happen, has always happened.


[edit on 7/1/2008 by Now_Then]

That's why it's called CLOSE Air Support.

No one here knows what exactly transpired in that video. We just see the results. Did the Brits call danger close or did the A-10 pilot just direct his attack too close to their position? No one here knows.

To say "it's those reckless American's fault" just shows ignorance and bias.

reply to post by PaddyInf


That's a very biased over simplification of the incident. I suggest you, and anyone else that's interested for that matter, read this thread on the topic. Read the material, digest it then reflect on it.

Link

I know that a few posters here have actually BEEN in a combat situation, and really I can only speak from my own experience. With that in mind I'm going to go real easy on the bashers.
It's called war for a reason. People get hurt, and yes, even die. Blue on blue is always a tragedy, and I'll even go so far as to say usually avoidable.
Unfortunately, when the lead is flying, mistakes in the heat of battle invariably occur. Every man that has ever put on a uniform and headed into a combat zone accepts this reality.
I saw the second video about 4 months ago I believe. Although I was not a pilot, I heard the controller distinctly say that there were no friendlies in the neighborhood before those big GAU's started spinning. In other words, no rounds exited those barrels without multiple interrogations and confirmations. I also heard the controller ask for confirmation of Artillery rounds, as well as adjustment. Listen to it again... The arty rounds were dropping way before a firing run was initiated.
On top of that, you could literally hear and sense the anguish in the pilots' voices when they discovered their error.
As a grunt, I love Arty, and the A-10's. When I hear those distinctive turbofans overhead, I feel a little more secure. Abdul has learned to keep his head down when he hears that noise.
To answer a previous poster: A-10's ARE a very tough plane, and they can be shot practically to pieces and still RTB. Part of the reason for that is the armored "tub" that protects the pilot, and the "low-tech" avionics. They are bar none the finest CAS ship in the world, and I'm certain anybody that has "been there" will agree.
The rest of you can continue to watch us all work on the news and only see our errors on the computer. It's a simple choice between complacency and actually doing something.

reply to post by Vasa Croe


yea the things are nearly indestructible. the pilot sits in a titanium "bathtub" that basically prevents any thing from getting into the cockpit from below or from the side. the plane can fly with a single engine running and it has even been known to fly back with like one good wing and a only half of another. when they designed it they designed it well. the pilots of it all love it and personally I'm a big fan. also interesting fact on the 30mm cannon, it fires so hard, that the pilots can only fire it for a limited because it slows the plane down. i feel bad for the brits or anyone for that matter on the other end of it.

raptor

reply to post by Vasa Croe


The simple answer to your question is yes. There was one hit in GW1 thad had about 1/3rd of the rear of the wing blown off, took SAM bits through the engine and had numerous holes put in it. It flew home and landed with both engines running.

Another one over Bagdhad in GW2 took somewhere over 200 holes, flew home and landed in one piece.

Pics:

GW1- www.pats-world.com... There's a link to battle damaged planes on that page. You can see for yourself how mangled the A-10s were coming home, but they still made it home and brought their pilots back in one piece.

GW2-

reply to post by Now_Then

I should learn how to grab those vids before they go missing.

Here is the video posted in the OP.

militaryvideos.net

Originally posted by WestPoint23
reply to post by PaddyInf

 

That's a very biased over simplification of the incident. I suggest you, and anyone else that's interested for that matter, read this thread on the topic. Read the material, digest it then reflect on it.

Link

Sorry Westy, but there's no bias in my comment. I've met two of the lads involved in the incident. They were sh1t scared and didn't know what to do. They were straffed twice by friendly forces. They recognised them as such. They didn't return fire. They are both adament that they DID NOTHING WRONG, yet they were still attacked by their US "colleagues", losing one of their mates in the process. They passed their position up the chain. They clearly displayed appropriate markers. They did not fire upon any aircraft or friendly forces.

Upon listening to the tapes I hear the pilots ask for confirmation that there are no frendly forces in the area, yet engage before receiving confirmation. This is the same conclusion as the board of enquiry. The pilots made several mistakes which resulted in the death of a young soldier and the severe injuriy of several others.

I've requested fast air in the past and the US have delivered the goods each time. I'm a big fan of the US forces. I have no doubt that they've saved my skin on more than one occasion. They are professionals, simple as. However there are a small number of of combatents that have a distracted view of what they do and as a result people die.

Complacency on the part of some US pilots has killed a number of allied soldiers. That is my point.

Is it me or have americans forgot that the brits are the allies.If it wasnt for us there would be alot more american troops going home in body bags.I think the british troops are undervalued.Granted this is the americans war for oil and alot of american innocents died in the goverments sick plan.Checkout the fbi most wanted site,Bin laden isint even mentioned for the 9/11 atacks.Thats because theres to much proof to support the budings were detroyed in controled demolition.



Cool plane though!

Just to put my 2 cents worth in this discussion.

If I was at WAR with NATO and I knew what there Friendly fire arrangements were than I as a country being attacked would do everything I could do to FIT IN WITH THAT ARRANGEMENT. How did the pilots know that this wasn't Iraqi forces painting their missiles ORANGE to try and trick the forces into shooting on friendly forces??

I don't agree with the Iraq war but i wont just sit back and not see what might have been a mistake. The pilot asks multiple times whether there are Friendly forces in the area. The person who screwed up is the person who answers the question "No, there is not friendlies in the area".