How can I convert 500 large into gold?

*to be quite frank i think in the next 15 years america's standard of living will fall more than ANY OTHER country (and probably in the next 5) i think unemployment and food shortages will be BY far the biggest story's by year 2009 or 10 at the latest.

it may be wise to look into a cheap residence in some country like iceland (climate like boston) where there would be less civil unrest , and it could b a sort of plan B if it affords you ( you could rent it out and hope that you would not need to ever move there, but have a bit more piece of mind knowing you have an option.


should some sort of military rule in the u.s come to fruition, sure they could confiscate gold again and boy how ugly would that be. it is a possibility and it is also possible we could go to an all credit society in a decade or so. I'm sure there would be bartering going on in the above situation but i imagine ammo (as well as silver coins) would be more prevelant, so you may want to stockpile MORE of that .....(so long as the supreme court doesn't redefine what the 2'nd amendment means) but having many thousands in gold coins would definitely not be useless. But never put all your eggs in one basket.

silver coins seem like a very good idea, and sure they take up space but they are more realistic to barter with than 850$ coins (even w/ food inflation rising) but then again, it may be dangerous (theft wise) to venture out into society to barter, so make sure you have enough food supply's for the long haul and the $ to pay property taxes.

maybe invite a few good buddy's over who know how to handle a weapon ( a sort of security system if you will)

again this is thinking worst case and in short term rapid consumer price inflation is quite possible, and the lack of supply of food may become headline news sooner than many think (so stockpiling water, and food could prove to be a very good investment)

job security is also important and outside of law enforcement i'm not sure service sector jobs will be that secure over the next few years beginning around the end of the year. the potential exists for a consumer lead slowdown to cause job losses and then for this cycle to snowball, untill some sort of gov't/ national jobs are created , perhaps in camps. the need to create a semblance of order and eliminate violence may be the reason for a veri chip to be required to function in what's left of society. of course there would still be a huge black market but i think it would be primarily in rural areas.


[edit on 4-1-2008 by cpdaman]

Originally posted by cpdaman
it may be wise to look into a cheap residence in some country like iceland (climate like boston) where there would be less civil unrest , and it could b a sort of plan B if it affords you ( you could rent it out and hope that you would not need to ever move there, but have a bit more piece of mind knowing you have an option.

I have a beach house in Mexico that is being rented out to weekend tourist (my grandpa was a smart guy)

[edit on 4-1-2008 by Dont Hate Rats]

No one has mentioned the flea markets. My local flea market always has droves of coin dealers that have gold/silver coins at very reasonable prices.
Just a thought!

usually you invest in something when its value is low. Right now the price of gold is so high you probalby wont get any possitive returns on your investment. Actually you will likely lose money on the long run. Unless you cash your gold when WW3 starts, that sure going to jackup the price of gold.

reply to post by imdeceived



This is true if you believe that gold is not going to go much higher.
But if it doubles or triples in price , now is the time to buy cheap.

reply to post by imdeceived
Well I think in '87(?) gold hit $850oz and then came back down. So in todays dollars that is like $2,500oz some experts are predicting $1,500oz this year.

*DISCLAIMER: All of the below is purely hypothetical*

right, in teh post apocalyptic, permanent "survivorman" state of being, one type of crops will sure be good for bartering ..

1) tobacco (nicotine)
2) hemp (cannabis; flower buds for smoke, stalks for awesome ropes)
3) poppy (opium/morphine/codiene; the stalks can also be mashed up and oil can be extracted)

theres more but i leave it there and explain briefly.

I live in Virgnia. In All the Southern States incl. VA, Tobacco farms are everywhere. I wouldnt plant my own, I would speak to a Tobacco farmer and offer him X% of my harvest for X amount of land to grow on, not own, just to grow on, like a quarter acre tops. Then, me and Tobacco farmer go into business. We start offering quality smoking tobacco and home crafted pipes, quality cannabis tops, quality opium gum, as well as various other products. Some of these would be poppy oil, poppy tincture (a foul liquid to drink for severe respiritory illness / pain), poppy seed, raw processed hemp straw to make your own ropes, ropes pre-made of hemp straw, possibly chewing tobacco if my farmer friend has skills.

Basically just a bunch of super useful stuff that the people in a post-apocalyptic world would just be dying to get their hands on. Obviously the basics of life come before these bartering items I have presented hypothetically, however, these products wouldnt be cheap; we're talking only the most ill people would be willing to trade for the medicine, and only the most well off people, like people who've grouped together to work together, would have the bartering items worth trading the smoking supplies for, such as tobacco/cannabis/opium. Then, only the fishermen would want the hemp rope, they need it for their boats, particularly post-apocyliptic world. So here we get fresh seafood for barter, mmm .. pounds of it. Are you starting to see my brilliant idea here. As to the smokeables and medicine, word would spread, customers would return through choice or addiction or necessity or -whatever-, and we'd get EVERYTHING we ever needed in barter, and lots of it. Guns, ammo, food supplies .. gasoline .. you name it, we'd be gettin' it.

And all for free! Because these crops and the know how to work with their harvests is a skill I already have, and should that situation happen to society, lets just say I did like Norway and got myself an emergency seed bank.

[edit on 1/4/2008 by runetang]

Originally posted by runetang
*DISCLAIMER: All of the below is purely hypothetical*

right, in teh post apocalyptic, permanent "survivorman" state of being, one type of crops will sure be good for bartering ..

1) tobacco (nicotine)
2) hemp (cannabis; flower buds for smoke, stalks for awesome ropes)
3) poppy (opium/morphine/codiene; the stalks can also be mashed up and oil can be extracted)

Oh very good! I hadn't thought about these yet. Officially can't start to grow a couple of them but I can stock up on the seeds fer sure.

thanks!

Originally posted by Dont Hate Rats
Thanks for all the replies and advice. I guess I should have clarified that The 500k is what I have left over after buying vehicles, weapons/ammo, generators (one is a large windmill generator) and feed, I also stocked plenty of food and other survival supplies, built a small, tight bunker with all the bells and whistles.
My grandfather also left me his house on forty acres that borders a large lake, also plenty of timber on the property.
The only thing I haven't done is purchased gold or other dollar alternatives.
It may be a mistake but I don't plan on putting any of it in stock...just don't trust those guys in their fancy suits and New York accents, screw them. Same goes with the gold "certificates" I think I would rather have it on hand somewhere where I can acces it quickly if I need to.
I like the silver idea of being able to use smaller denomination coins instead of trying to cash in an $850 dollar coin

Hi - I'm new to the forum but based on what I've read so far, you're doing the right thing. You sound very well prepared for the coming hard times.

Gold and silver are both great investments. I have a friend who had been investing in junk silver since the 70's and he just recently cashed in some of that silver and purchased a much needed truck.

However, I recommend taking physical delivery and DO NOT store it in a safety deposit box. True, gold is selling higher now than it was last summer but many investors believe it will continue to rise hitting the $1000 mark by late spring.

Because it appears that you have all your ducks in a row you just need to "get in" to the gold market. CNI out of California are great people to deal with (in my experience) and according to them, purchases of less than $10,000 are not recorded (send a cashier's check and they send you the gold) I've also been told that Eagles, along with various other collector type gold coins, cannot be confiscated by the government. Of course, you have to take that with a grain of salt since the government can and does pretty much what they want regardless of the law or the constitution.

Someone mentioned Euros and that's not a bad idea to have a little money in several currencies but all paper currency is fiat money...backed by nothing but faith.

No plan is perfect but once you know where your weaknesses are you can use counter measures to balance it all out.

Of course, all this is in my very humble opinion.

Congrats on all your plans so far.

reply to post by Dont Hate Rats


Basically yeah, but you'd want a bit more than a steel door on it. If anyone ever got the idea that you have a vault, especially if they got the idea that you have a vault with gold in it, it wouldn't take long to attract the attention of a pro. Therefore you'd want it to be heavily reinforced on every side, including the bottom, with a real serious door. That's why its best to pour it with the foundation - you can tie it into the basement walls eliminating any weaknesses where the walls meet.

Depending on your situation it could even serve as your shelter. I can't really guess on the overall construction cost though. You're not securing millions of dollars worth (not at today's prices anyway). Fifty grand would be a wild speculation for something suitable.

reply to post by Jacks56

Thanks. I'll check out CNI.
I think I am almost prepared (sunk alot of money...grandpa's money towards it) but I still feel like I should do more. I guess that is just human nature.

Investing in gold, unless you are an applicable merchant, is almost never done at a profit. The value has a fairly stable range, and actually loses value over the long run. The reason smart investors buy gold is as security against a tanking market, not to try and make money.

A quick example to illustrate:

You invest $100 in gold at $20/oz.
You also invest $100 in a modestly performing stock that earns about 7% annually.

In ten years:

If the market is basically the same as it was before, your gold is still only worth about $20/oz, meaning you still have $100 worth of gold. You have not only netted nothing, but the value of a dollar has decreased with natural inflation of about 2-4%. Your gold is now technically worth less than when you bought it at, probably only about the equivalent of $75. Your stock, however, has doubled size, and you now have $200 worth of stock. With the same rate of inflation, perhaps it is actually worth about $150. The net difference in your investment between gold to stocks is 100% against gold.

If, however, in 10 years the market shows a fallen dollar worth only half of what it was worth before (the equivalent of a devastating economic crisis), and gold skyrockets to $25/oz, you now have $125 in gold. Your stock, which has dutifully continued to double to $200 is technically only worth $100. The difference between your gold and stock is 25% in favor of gold.

In all but the worst of economic scenarios, gold as a commodity (not as jewelry) is bought and held at a loss, because your gold is a finite investment in a tangible product that does not increase in volume. A brick of gold stuck in a safe somewhere is not going to spontaneous produce additional bricks of gold. This is contrasted to a stock, which is a purchased share of a company, which will presumably increase in size over time.

Sinking any significant percentage of your life's savings in gold is folly. Gold is insurance, not investment.

So why do people buy gold if it's held at a loss?

Insurance. Economies eventually either recover, or are replaced. Gold is a universally accepted medium that translates into any currency, old or new. If you have $100mil net worth, and 99% of it in USD and 1% of it in gold, then even if the US Dollar completely and utterly tanks and ceases to exist (highly unlikely), then you still have $1mil worth of gold to survive off of, which is going to put you in a much better off situation than your neighbor, who only had 100% USD.

Most financial advisers suggest 1% of your life's savings be converted into gold. Do not buy collector's coins, or mess with jewelry. 24k (or as close as can be managed) ingots are generally going to be most preferable, as they do not have the increased cost of coin stamping, and do not have the difficult change-scaling of an entire bar.

Certificates of gold are perhaps the greatest folly. The true value of gold, as mentioned, is not in profitability, it is as emergency holdover funds in the event of economic collapse. The situations likely to arise in the event of an economic collapse are such that your piece of paper saying you own gold will be completely worthless to you until long after the economy and infrastructure has re-asserted itself, at which time, assuming your certificate is even honored by the new system, will now be worth far less than it was during the crisis.

Thus, my advice is: if you have less than 1% of your savings in gold, buy gold ingots, store them locally in a buried fire-safe. If you have more than 1% of your savings in gold, sell off all but 1% while the price is high, and find something better to invest it in, otherwise you are actually losing money in the long run.

Originally posted by apc
I would highly advise against eBay and bullion bars. You can get a tester to test what you buy off eBay, but once you buy a bogus product, if you resell it you're as guilty as the punk who sold it to you. And good luck with the PayPal dispute!

If anyone were mad enough to try and sell "bogus" gold, it wouldn't be a matter of an "Ebay dispute". It would be a matter for the Interpol. (And possibly for a psychiatric help professional. Certainly nobody in their right mind would try to pull something like that on Ebay.)

I can understand why people who buy/sell other - ordinary - stuff would be wary of Ebay. Gold, however, is serious stuff - and treated accordingly.

Which, I suppose, is why so many people buy/sell gold there...
I know if I were to sell my gold, Ebay would my chosen avenue.

Originally posted by imdeceived
usually you invest in something when its value is low. Right now the price of gold is so high you probalby wont get any possitive returns on your investment. Actually you will likely lose money on the long run. Unless you cash your gold when WW3 starts, that sure going to jackup the price of gold.

As other people noted, gold is seldom bought for profit. Rather, it is the bedrock that maintains its value when everything else slides downward.

Having said that... if I sold today the gold that I bought only 14 months ago - I am not even mentioning earlier acquisitions - I would already pocket a respectable profit.

But I am in no rush. Because chances are that it will go much, MUCH higher still.

Originally posted by Rilence
Why would one buy gold from a place like EBay ??

Surely there are plenty of reputable metals dealers you can buy from who guarantee the product and will take payment in whatever form is acceptable to both parties, without ID in most cases ?

Sounds like buying from EBay in this case could be setting one up for heartache...

I don't know about buying, but i can certainly see the reasons for selling it on Ebay (which was what I said in reply to the OP): because Ebay can be very good for selling gold on short notice, when you need quick cash - or when you want to squeeze the maximum profit out of an unstable situation, for example. You get to set your price, your "margin", your conditions.

For the very same reasons I would advise AGAINST buying it on Ebay.
Not because of some "heartache" - the only heartache would befall a fraudulent seller, who could anticipate a lengthy holiday behind bars - but simply because it's usually cheaper to buy it from a dealer.


Anyway, I'd like to reiterate my original advice: buy as much land with natural water resources as you can, OP, and invest the rest in solid (not "paper") assets: gold, silver, palladium.

As for good old "barter" trade goods: think pepper and salt.

I am not kidding.








[edit on 4-1-2008 by Vanitas]

reply to post by Jacks56

posted by Jacks56
I've also been told that Eagles, along with various other collector type gold coins, cannot be confiscated by the government. Of course, you have to take that with a grain of salt since the government can and does pretty much what they want regardless of the law or the constitution.

If you are referring to 1933, that is incorrect. The Government did 2 or 3 things. First, It took the US OFF the gold standard. That is, the Treasury no longer had to possess an ounce of gold for each $20 it printed. That was constitutional. Next the government banned the use of gold coins as currency or money. I believe the government can declare money or currency to be what it wants, I do not think that was unconstitutional. Third, it offered $35 an ounce for all gold turned in to the banks. The price of gold had been $20 an ounce since time immemorial. The banks forwarded the gold to the US government where it was melted down and cast into gold bars and is or was stored at Ft. Knox or elsewhere. Almost everyone took advantage of the government's generous offer to pay nearly double the fair market “value” of gold and sold theirs to the government. No confiscation was involved.

It was based a new economic theory espoused by Englishman John Maynard Keynes that the government - any government - must control the amount of money in circulation to achieve either inflation or deflation depending on its political goals. Fiat money. That is what we have now, everywhere in the world.

The US for example has about $400 b. in print and in circulation around the world. $260 b. here, $140 b. outside the US. The fiscal strength of our money relative to metals or other currencies reflects the world’s opinion of the American economy; mostly in the short term but to some extent in the long term. Gold goes up when they have doubts, dollars go up when they have confidence.

[edit on 1/4/2008 by donwhite]

Originally posted by thelibra
Investing in gold, unless you are an applicable merchant, is almost never done at a profit. The value has a fairly stable range, and actually loses value over the long run. The reason smart investors buy gold is as security against a tanking market, not to try and make money.

Truer words have never been spoken. Over the long term Gold has been a very poor place for your money. Last time Gold was at this price was 1979. If you had bought gold at the top of that bubble you would have waited almost 30 years before you got back to even. During those thrity years consumer prices have risen almost 300%. in other words you can only buy one third the amount of goods with that Gold today, than you could have in 1979. Gold is a trade and not an investment. If you wouldn't trade an indivdual stock, then you shouldn't trade Gold either. At least stocks go up over the long term. Almost 5 times since 1979.

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity

Over the long term Gold has been a very poor place for your money. Last time Gold was at this price was 1979. During those thirty years consumer prices have risen almost 300%. Gold is a trade and not an investment. If you wouldn't trade an individual stock, then you shouldn't trade Gold either. At least stocks go up over the long term. Almost 5 times since 1979.

And let me add the 1) cost of insurance - especially theft insurance - and the 2) cost of assaying. Unless you buy from a reputable dealer or source, you must have your gold assayed to make sure you are getting what you are paying for and not glitzy lead. When you sell, unless you are a reputable dealer, then you are going to have to submit your gold to an assay or your buyer is taking a chance.

One advantage to buying established gold coins is the knurled or ridged edge of the coins which would reveal any tampering. By using jewelers measuring tools you could pretty much be sure of what you were getting before you buy. But without an assay, you are always taking a chance.

As they say, if you don't know your product, know your seller.

Originally posted by Dont Hate Rats

I have a beach house in Mexico that is being rented out to weekend tourist (my grandpa was a smart guy)

it's my understanding that the republic of Mexico
will not allow non-citizens to own land/real-estate anywhere
within 20-50 miles (i just don't know) of beaches, etc.

one can buy into condos (on a life-time lease arrangement) etcetera,
but an 'Anglo' cannot own certain Mexican land/property(s)

so, please explain the 'arrangement' which made your G.P. so unique


thanks....




[edit on 4-1-2008 by St Udio]

I didn't hqave time to read this whole thread, so I apologize if this has been mentioned already.

You should put most of your 500k into a survival location and survival gear.

When the SHTF firearms, ammo, food, and survival gear will be worth more than any currency or gold.