A way to stop the nation smoking?

Smoking costs the NHS (and the taxpayer) £1.5bn a year. With the help of a simple idea, this could be drastically reduced helping to ease the tax burden and improve the health of Britain.

As a non smoker, this is easy enough for me to say but in practice may not be a good idea.. i don't know but it's an idea none the less.

How about the government make it compulsory for smokers to have a card which they need to produce when buying tobacco products? They have a limited time to register as a smoker to be able to purchase them. After the cut off point, you can't register as a smoker and will not be able to buy tobacco unless you have one of these cards.

In my opinion this would prevent 'new smokers' and once all of the registered smokers had quit with the help of current and new 'stop smoking schemes' or come to the end of their lives.. hey presto, no more smokers.

What are your thoughts on this?

50/50


[edit on 3-1-2008 by fiftyfifty]

I quit smokin a couple of weeks ago and i really feel alot better, but I still think smoking should be banned. What other substance that knowingly causes millions of deaths worldwide is legal? Yes i know that the government makes so much money from it at our expense so it will never happen.

Originally posted by hikix
I quit smokin a couple of weeks ago and i really feel alot better, but I still think smoking should be banned. What other substance that knowingly causes millions of deaths worldwide is legal? Yes i know that the government makes so much money from it at our expense so it will never happen.

I'm not so sure, there are more and more government funded non smoking campaigns and groups appearing. Surely they wouldn't do that if that was the case?

Response from The Devil's Advocate:

"Cool! I am not a smoker either (nor is anyone in my family anymore), but I will get a "smoker's card" for each of them. Now since we all "smoke" at least 2 packs each every day, I will qualify to buy a whole shwack of cigarettes, that I can in turn sell under the table for a nice profit to the poor idiots who want to smoke but never got their card when offered..."

That is a nice side business proposition you got going there 50/50!

reply to post by IronDogg


Ok, well that could be simply solved by having a 'photocard' and a doctors reference

Actually, smokers doesn't cost taxpayers anything. It's the other way around. Smokers contribute more to the tax-system than what they cost. I agree that smoking is not healthy, but we should get our facts straight. And btw, cars are more unhealthy to the non-smoker than a smoker is. So why not ban cars instead?

reply to post by hikix


Driving a Car? second hand smoke (from driving our car), smog, Oil,
the list goes on and on

It appears that in the U.S. the government decides what is best for us based on how it will affect industry and the stock market, it seems similar in the U.K. but I am not a citizen of the U.K. and have never visited there so unlike most Americans I do not choose to say that I know because I don't..

I totally agree that smoking is bad for your I have been trying to quit for quite some time now and I am nearing success but candy seems to be just as bad for you judging by all the Really Obese little kids we have here in the states..


Respectfully
GEO

[edit on 1/3/2008 by geocom]

[edit on 1/3/2008 by geocom]

Originally posted by Hellmutt
Actually, smokers doesn't cost taxpayers anything. It's the other way around. Smokers contribute more to the tax-system than what they cost. I agree that smoking is not healthy, but we should get our facts straight. And btw, cars are more unhealthy to the non-smoker than a smoker is. So why not ban cars instead?

Well spotted, just trying to keep you on your toes

Most smokers that I know want to stop smoking and i'm sure that for the coming generations, everyone would be happy to take away that possibility? By the time I have kids, I would like smoking to have been a thing of the past or something that 'old people do'. There is no reason why something like this can't be put into practice.

Sure there will be some people trying to scam the system and selling on the black market etc, but it will be much harder and despite that, the number of new people taking up smoking would be dramatically decreased. Besides, who would go to all the effort of paying for a fake card and buying something on the black market to start a habit that they don't currently have and damage there health? Very few i would have thought.

[edit on 3-1-2008 by fiftyfifty]

Originally posted by Hellmutt
Actually, smokers doesn't cost taxpayers anything. It's the other way around. Smokers contribute more to the tax-system than what they cost.

It doesn't make sense from the actuarian perspective. Medical costs, whether footed by social medicine (UK) or private insurance (USA) are quite large, not matter how you slice it. A lot of excise tax on tobacco here in the US is local, if I'm not mistaken. And besdies, I just don't see how any smoker can pay for procedures/hospital stay, based on the numbers I know, simply by contributing to the tax base via smoking. It just doesn't work. A day of hospital stay can run you $3k.

My own proposal is to have a federal tax on tobacco that would triple the cost of a pack. If you can't afford it, sorry dude.




[edit on 3-1-2008 by buddhasystem]

reply to post by buddhasystem

My own proposal is to have a federal tax on tobacco that would triple the cost of a pack. If you can't afford it, sorry dude.

That would Pee off a lot of people. Have you ever been with someone whos just quit smoking.. now times that by millions... bad idea! At least my way, people have the choice either to not register or quit in their own time, meanwhile, the younger generation don't have the option to start.


[edit on 3-1-2008 by fiftyfifty]

reply to post by fiftyfifty


Introduction of another form of prohibition.
Prohibition doesn't work; education does.
Smokers cost the NHS vast amounts, however, they contribute vast amounts too through the tax they pay on the products they buy.
Smokers more than pay for any treatment they may receive from the NHS.
To suggest otherwise is naive.
The current campaign is aimed at detracting from the truth, years of serious mis-management and under funding is responsible for the current pathetic state of the NHS.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Well just so you know we had a very large lawsuit in the 80's and early 90's and the government sued big tobacco companies stating that the money would be used for medical care and smoking cessation programs however less than 1% of this money gets used for this purpose instead it goes into the general fund and gets distributed for building and repairing roads and my personal favorite the bridge to nowhere, which congress smashed and the president reinstated..

So I see you thoughts and i agree but if you are going to make others quit smoking then you should be prepared to quit driving it is more harmful to you than smoking.. if you stick 100 people in a room 10 non smokers 90 smokers 1 of the 10 might get nauseous but if you stick 100 people in a room and run the exhaust for just an hour everyone would be dead..



Respectfully
GEO

[edit on 1/3/2008 by geocom]

Originally posted by fiftyfifty
Have you ever been with someone whos just quit smoking.. now times that by millions... bad idea! At least my way, people have the choice either to not register or quit in their own time, meanwhile, the younger generation don't have the option to start.

Your plan is a lot worse because (a) it will still tick off a lot of people (b) it's not really enforceable in that the cigs can be shared or resold in the aftermarket

Originally posted by geocom
So I see you thoughts and i agree but if you are going to make me others quit smoking then be prepared to quit driving it is more harmful to you than smoking..

The amount of various chemicals I inhale when doing my commute, in a car, cannot be compared with the mercury/tar/carcinogen fest I'd be getting if I was going through a pack a day, which many ppl still do.

reply to post by geocom


I see your point about driving but how many people 'want' to stop driving for their own health? How many people would be out of a job if they gave up driving? How would industry survive without cars, vans and lorries etc.

You seem to be misunderstanding that while driving is both a high polluter and dangerous it is not a social decision. Smoking is. Carbon emmissions are a separate topic and this topic is not about the pollutiuon factor, it is about personal medical health. most people who smoke don't want to die of lung cancer and don't want to affect the health of people around them. Most people who drive have no choice if they want to keep up with modern society.

Ok some people will be ticked off by it but you can never please everyone. The money generated through tax could be raised through another kind of tax if it needed to be, we all know how easily the government come up with new taxes.

Hands up if you would like your children to become smokers? ....I don't see many hands.

[edit on 3-1-2008 by fiftyfifty]

[edit on 3-1-2008 by fiftyfifty]

reply to post by fiftyfifty


If there was a genuine intent to get the population to stop smoking, it'd be a good idea (although there are complications: what about foreign visitors for example? And it might put in place a black market with 'registered smokers' buying tobacco for 'non registered smokers').

But the govt doesn't want us to stop smoking any more than it wants us to stop flying to save the planet

We ought all, for one week, stop doing all the things the govt to taxes us heavily in order to persuade us against doing: ie we all stop smoking, stop drinking alcohol, stop driving cars, stop flying ........ the Govt would panic like it really were the end of the world. What fun

reply to post by buddhasystem


How can you say that?
can you point me to a study that has proof of that claim?

I find it hard to believe that almost everyone owns a car and fills the air with the same things that come from smoking and they are at present far more prevalent than smokers you can't see the same damage being done


at any rate a study of some type to support the claim you made would be great.

keep in mind I no longer smoke and if I smoke at all it is like 1 every other day and only when really stressed but I think it is my right ( I am in the U.S.) to smoke if I want and if you make it illegal or tax it people will just take it underground like drugs.. the American Prohibition should show this anyone who cares to see it


Respectfully
GEO

reply to post by fiftyfifty


Driving is very much a social decision get off your arse and get on a bicycle
move closer to work and take the bus or trolley to work..
granted smoking is a social decision granted and may not affect as many if everyone stops but in reality the same health concerns will still be there and you will just get taxed on something else..

I have made my social decision to drive as little as possible I fill up about once every 2 months I take the bike everywhere I can and I have nearly quit smoking (not quite there but almost) but still these are my decisions not anyone elses I don't smoke in public or around others certainly not around kids.. If you are going to outlaw cigarettes then so to should pipe tobacco and cigars be outlawed..

Respectfully
GEO

[edit on 1/3/2008 by geocom]

reply to post by geocom


It may be naivety on my side to think this but i can't see much of an underground/ blackmarket with this. If you smoke, then you have the option to register and legally buy cigarettes. If you don't register it's because you don't smoke.. why would you suddenly decide you wanted to buy cigarettes. Agreed, some people would but most people would not bother because they would not benefit from it.

On the sharing side of things, yeh ok people would do it but there would be no enforceable law saying they cant smoke, the law would be just prohibiting the sale of tobacco to a non-registered smoker.

Now if you are an unregistered smoker, you would think twice about having cigarettes off somebody because if you got addicted how would you buy them.. black market... some would do it but most wouldnt be able to afford it and most wouldnt want to go to all the hassle just to start habit which has no benefit to them.

reply to post by geocom


Yes the restriction would be to all tobacco products as I said. I believe smoking pipes were banned in the 90s? It is not illegal to smoke one but illegal to sell them (don't quote me on that), now.. how many pipe smokers are there around now? Do you see my point?

As for driving, I for one have no choice, my job involves driving around the country in a car and without anyone doing my job it would make a negative difference to the public. Public transport is still very unreliable and it is not always an option ot have a job close to home or to move closer to work. Like I said, Driving is a seperate issue and I am all for clean energy which we will hopefully se in the near future.