My New Years Challenge! Help me!

Happy New Year ATS!
I joined this community after 15 years of C2CAM, and I have been impressed with some people's intelligence, as well as the strength that can come from the numbers here. I NEED YOUR HELP!
I am tired of the UFO debate. I have seen them! three in my lifetime, and I have excellent notes on all three sightings This is not important. I am a sane, Marine Corps veteran, who is wanting to move the debate onward. Lets get the mainstream discussing why, not if! That is whats important. But we can never do this without excellent proof, right?

THIS IS MY CHALLENGE! READ BELOW!


I know that there are many 'experts' on this site. some real, others self-professed. However, through the various threads, I have noted that there are many who take sightings, evidence, video, etc., whatever, and break down the various hoaxes and such. I see the constant questions and advice on how to best prove it real or not. I want to have a solution, one for me and all those who may read this.

I will spend up to $750 on a camera this month. What do I need from you all? Tell me what to buy! what kind of shutter speeds, lenses, night vision, etc.! I will purchase this, and have it ready to go. I work many nights, and I say again, whether you believe me or not, that I have seen three UFO's, and had my Dad, the most honest man I know, tell me of another. So now lets get the proof right. let me get the right equipment!

What will I do for you?

I need a senior admin on this site, or a poster with a long history on this site to agree, for one year only, to be my proof and liason. When I buy the 'correct' camera, one you all agree is correct, if i catch any photos, I will IMMEDIATLY send camera and all to the verifier. I am not looking for re-embursement, I will pay for all of it, as long as a moderator and three (3) Ats senior members can agree on that middle person. I will allow them to verify my identity, my computer contents, and any program i might have so that any 'Faking' is eliminated. I have practically no experience with the new cameras, but will accept all advice on product type, and I will send a copy of the sales reciepts to the agreed upon middle person.
This is my challene to ATS! All i need is a little time from some of you, and maybe 2008 will finally be the year! I encourage other members to follow my lead, because even my 2.0 MP camera phone isn't 'good' enough proof, and we NEED that proof, so this debate can move forward.
thanks agan for your time, Jason J Nelson, S.B., CA

First, let me WELCOME you to AboveTopSecret.com.

It's a DEAL, I accept your challenge. I am one of the three owners of ATS so I trust I am "senior" enough.

If you'll hit the "send u2u" button on the bottom of this post it will open a new PM already addressed to me that you use to give the details. I'll respond with my private email address and we'll get this started TODAY.

I am friends with two of the top digital imaging experts on the planet who have both "seen something they can't define" and would LOVE to see what you get. Please do keep in mind that known objects for scale and distance are crucial, lights in the sky aren't worth dealing with because there is nothing to reference them against.

Do a Google search on the name David Biedny to get an idea of the caliber experts we have on out team.

My response to the founder, via u2u;

Wow, what a response!
Thank you so much for your insight. All I am interested in, is getting the 'right proof' into the 'right' hands. I seek NO attention for myself, and if this post can be used as a legal document, NO profit from this endeavor. My brother and I (we are both Marine veterans) have shared two experiences together, being night owls, and honestly, trained observers. I only seek to start the real discussion on what the E.T. 'agenda' for this world is.
We have planned, for this fall, a trip to the high desert. I hope that this will be a nice "spiritual" experience for us both, but also, we wanted to listen to C2C podcasts and watch for UFO's.
So now the hard part. I will agree to these conditions in exchange for three things.
conditions.
I will IMMEDIATELY send camera and all equipment used to you, upon completion of my own internet search of you. (no offense) I will complete the search by today. So if I take a picture at midnight on feb. 3rd, you will have a hand courriered package by 5pm that day. I do ask that I get a copy of the memory card after YOU have removed it.
I will keep this thread open as a posting of all I see, and read my progress, but will leave all photo postings to you.
I will agree for one year, uness extended, to carry this camera EVERYWHERE.
I will send you a copy of all reciepts for equipment, etc, and retain all of my original packaging.
Lastly, you must return the camera to me by Thirty (30) days time from whenever you recieved it. you may keep the original disk

what do I need?
Camera specs, night vision, etc. I have read may posts on the proper way to film a ufo, and will endeavor to avoid the "random lights" effect. I have a $750 budget, so if anyone knows the best camera to et, i will get it.

I re-read my post, and now i see a few errors I made. I don't require three 'things' for these conditions. I only want to be sure and eliminate all possible skeptics and their arguments. I already know they exist, I just never realized the absolute burden of proof neccasary for these things.
I now know that the poster above is who he says he is, and if his resources are as vast as he says they are, I have made the right connection here. I only really ask for the return of my equipment, and that upon verification of any 'UFO's', that his founder will make all the efforts he can to promote this information, sans my credit. I will even allow an inspection of my Mac, whatever it takes.
I don't even know that I will get a picture, but if ANYONE can give me advice on a camera and all that, I will always keep it with me, and for no other purpose than this. My hope is that this thread will inspire others to sign on for the very same deal, and maybe 100 or so amateurs out there will combine for a dozen or so credible photos? ( I mean if one person was able to get a dozen quick shots in) Thanks again, and please reply with any advice for me!
J

It's not nessesarily the brand or type of camera you buy It's going to be more about the lenses. If you look at all the supposed UFO pictures out there most of them have a common thread... Blurry, out of focus, too small to disecern. If you want to be really serious about this you are going to need to put down a lot more than $750.00. With $750.00 you could definatley buy a decent 35mm film camera or even a pro amatuer digital with at least 8 megapixel. Either of these formats will work well but to be serious you will really need to purchase a few nice pieces of glass to put in front of them. If you are indeed a serious or want to be a serious researcher you should also consider using several cameras with differant configurations. As an example you may want to use two film cameras and two digitals and possibly even a video camera with all cameras set up differantly.

It's easy to fake a photograph, If you happen to get something you should be able to provide the original film and/or the original digital file as captured by the camera. A roll of unprocesssed film verified by a third party would probably go a long way to truely proving what you saw.

Hey Jason I wish you best of luck on your mission. Way back in perhaps mid 2007- I found a pic of a UFO. But its been so long its no longer on my post page only the last 250 posts are.

This picture I found was unbelievable and really don't see how it could have been a fake. Did a quick search and here are the links.

www.ufoevidence.org...

www.ufoevidence.org...

Here is the pics I was talking about-

www.ufoevidence.org...

www.ufoevidence.org...



[edit on 1/3/2008 by Leyla]

If only there were more serious minded researchers like you, Nelson.
If I were wearing a hat, I would remove it in respect

I have never seen a UFO, no matter how hard I look, but accept their existence as a given. I am logical, sometimes rational, and will not simply believe everything I read. The reason I have accepted the unproven truth of the UFO phenomena, despite a lack of personal evidence, is people like yourself; stable, reliable and proffesional observers who have been lucky enough to witness our aeriel visitors.

There are a lot of what are delightfully termed "woo woos" on ATS, who will happily profess intimate knowledge of the entire alien agenda. None of them, not one, is willing to try and prove themselves right. That, plainly and simply, is because they can't as, by and large, they are either prone to believing in the work of hoaxers, are plain deranged, or are hoaxers themselves.

But what's more important, is they don't have people like you.

It's easy for us all to pontificate and elucidate on the entire ETH from the comfort of our respective keyboards (and I must admit, I'm one). We wait for the latest "evidence" to appear, or read the newest theory, either to lap them up or tear them to shreds. Few are willing to take the next step and be proactive about UFOs.

Once again, I salute you for taking that step.

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
what do I need?
Camera specs, night vision, etc. I have read may posts on the proper way to film a ufo, and will endeavor to avoid the "random lights" effect. I have a $750 budget, so if anyone knows the best camera to et, i will get it.

As a photographer myself, I will quickly make a post before I scurry off to grab some food.

You have a decent enough budget, but it all depends on what you're after. If you want a digital SLR, you can start off looking at around 300-400 pound (sorry, not so sure about dollar conversion.) But with SLR's, it's all about the lenses. For the most part, except for 50mm 1.8 prime lenses etc, or of course the standard kit lens, buying lenses, especially Canon (the best) cost more than the camera body itself!

You would want some zoom in your lens I gather right, as i assume you won't be standing right next to the UFO? Therefore, you will also have to ask yourself do you want IS - Image Stability? This helps dramatically if you don't have a tripod for example and also in low light conditions, where slight camera shake won't result in blurry pictures. Image stability lenses can cost a fair amount mind and looking at your budget, you wouldn't have enough really, after buying the camera body itself!

So, you could do for a standard digital camera with a decent enough built in zoom. As mentioned above, the higher the megapixels, the sharper the image, although for standard consumer needs, around 7 megapixels will be more than fine. Any higher is purely down to consumer needs and taste. Whatever size LCD screen is also entirely up to choice, although 2 - 2.5 inch LCD display screen with over 200,000 pixels will be very handy to view the image you have shot and then decide whether it's of good enough quality.

What standard digital camera would be suitable? Well, I did have many links. Let me check back and try and find some for you!

*Goes browsing his favorites folder...*

Some good non Digital SLR's around the 250 pound price mark are:

Canon Powershot S3 IS

REVIEW HERE

Fujifilm FinePix S9600

REVIEW HERE

I'm sure if you look around, you can get them for around 350 - 400 dollars. Again, sorry if 200-300 pounds isn't that near. I'm not good on currency converting!

But those two above have more than adequate zoom and features to get you on your way and would be a lot less expensive that buying a Digital SLR, then forking out on an expensive lens to go with it! As you're starting out, a camera like the above (non SLR) would be suitable for hunting good pictures of UFO's I'm sure!

Any info, just ask...



[edit on 3-1-2008 by Arawn]

First, let me say that I really admire your determination and I hope you succeed in your mission. I too have seen a UFO with a friend and know that they are real. Now, back to reality, if you want to give yourself the best opportunity to shoot a quality picture of a UFO, you're going to need some good equipment. I would suggest getting both a digital SLR and a 35mm. You can buy some good lenses that will work for both.

The reason I suggest this is to stay one step ahead of the skeptics. If you are able to capture something on 2 different cameras, it will make it that much harder for them to debunk. However, I don't know how often UFO's show up on 35mm film. I think with the right lenses (infrared?) you might be able to capture them.

Since this project is likely to get expensive (if you do it right), could we set up something where members of ATS can donate 5-10 dollars towards the cause? I'm sure we could raise a substantial amount of money for a dedicated veteran.

*And if you'd like to research digital cameras yourself, you can go to DPReview

This is great. I give props to you on your determiniation, I wish you good luck in your findings, this could change the way other people look at UFO's

Sounds like a trap. I don't know why the OP would need someone to proof his stuff. If the images are shot well enough, then it should be indisputable. It's not going to mean anything to the people outside of ATS whether or not there is a person to be the "proof" and to back the guy who filmed it. There is plenty of evidence out there, doing this is not going to change anyones ideas. They will still call them fakes and it will never hit mainstream if it looks just like any other UFO video. The only way to catch people's attention is to show them something they have never seen before. If you can shake hands with a grey or some other extraterrestrial and get a free tour of their aircraft while managing to get this all on tape, then you have successfully ended the battle to prove or disprove the existence of aliens.

Where do you live that you expect to see more? I have lived all over the world and traveled my whole life as aircrew in the Air Force. I have over 10,000 hours in the air and I never seen anything in 27 years of flying and looking.

I think the best advice is to be always ready and to document everything you can.

Originally posted by photobug
It's easy to fake a photograph, If you happen to get something you should be able to provide the original film and/or the original digital file as captured by the camera. A roll of unprocesssed film verified by a third party would probably go a long way to truely proving what you saw.

Hey photobug,

In this day and age would not a real film camera be the best? It takes about 10 megs to come close to real print. I have an old A1 Canon that is manual focus but has incredible abilities to shoot good shots.

I have a nice Canon digital, but when it comes to the best shots I stick with my A1 that has a good assortment of top lens. I find that the aperture size is so much better on the A1 with a top lens and to me that is very important in low light.

It also has a powerful/fast power winder.

I also think that real film not developed goes a long way with limiting manipulation of the print as we see so much in digital.

Hey all! First, let me start by thanking those who have contributed help thus far. It actually meant alot to see others with photography experience that were willing to share with me. Thanks fellow ats'ers!
Now, I appreciatte that someone would want to donate funds for my camera, but thanks anyway. I am by no means wealthy, but I can handle these expenses. I would say that I could afford a thousand at the most, so if you want to be helpful, let me know if you see a good deal on E-bay or something. Saving money is always a good thing.
As for the one skeptic, DUH! Of course this looks bogus! But the trick of this is, I don't want anything but some info! I don't have some secret cg skills that I am waiting to unleash on a rabid audience. I just want to move this debate forward! (see original post) Hell, I don't even know how to post a linkon this site! As for this thread, I will clarify....
I know that UFO's, just like ghosts and telekinetic powers , as well as prophesising(??) are real. Why? Seen all four. Do I care if you believe me? NO! There are PLENTY of people who have seen all these things, and this is who this thread is for! I seek no gain, only information. AND!< the ability to get any evidence into the hands of those most able to disseminate said info. Looks like I hit gold with that one, eh?
Lastly, I know the pilot said that he has never seen a UFO. How many doctors never see E-bola? how many doctors misdiagnose or fail to see health problems when presented with something they believe is something else? (based on their own experiences)
You may have not seen one, and I may never see one again, But just because a tree falls in a forest when no-one is around to hear it, doesn't mean the other trees don't make fun of it. See what I mean?
So I will begin to shop. As of right now, I have a disposable camera and a notepad in my car, and my house. For twenty dollars, I have a least a small bit of preparation in case of an event. IF I get too see a Craft, I will take as many photos as I can with my new camera, and hopefully some on that disposable as well, just for proof's sake.
My only real goal is not to be the first guy ever with some ridiculous burden of proof. it is to be better prepared by those with more experience than me, and to HOPEFULLY, inspire others to make the same preparations . Wouldn't that be a wonderful ATS family outing? I live in SB right now, but I will post monthly on a few side trips I am taking. My bro and I will be going to the High desert in the fall as well. I mean, we all know where the busiest places are, why not take a day trip[ somewhere this year people?!! I believe we can do this. J

PS, anyone who attempts to make money on a UFO event that might alter our knowledge of the Unioverse, is a LIAR!

Just wanted to wish you good luck. We need people like yourself in the UFO community. I hope you catch some really sexy photos with your cameras, that the debunkers and skeptics won't be able to debunk.

Wait Jason, wait!!!

Dont buy a still camera, when better proof would be gained through a video camera. As we all now a video is worth 10000 pictures.
To truly make an airtight case, recording a video of the object in motion would be a better approach.

I also feel that given your budget a very good DV recorder can be had, even if the still resolution may not be as good as a still SLR. I am no expert on the electronics of which video camera would be best. Will try some research and post here though.

And a for the good intentions!

[edit on 1/3/2008 by 2believeor0]

You know, I did think about that, however, I thought that most people tend to think of those as hoaxes, due to the quality. Any of you earlier posters have a thought on this? I mean, I waill still always carry a disposable camera. (my dad taught me that, for accidents.)But I would be interested to know if there are

I can only speak about the only camera that I have used and that is good enough for the job that your are proposing yourself, the Panasonic DMC-FZ30.

It has a 12x optical zoom, takes good photos with low ligt and is also capable of 640x480, 30fps video.

It also saves photos in TIFF and RAW format, much better than JPEG but that take longer to record.

As this is an oldish camera you can probably find something better or this one at a lower price.

Good luck!

LEICA Rangfinder Camera Body

used, excellent++ condition
Ebay Item number: 140192942037
Buy it now $925

Nikon 18-200mm lens

used excellent condition ebay... $400

professional fitting...

Thats a start.

You will have to get your hands on military/surveyor spec tripod... while you are bumming it from your commando buddies... a high res military spec FLIR camera would be a good borrow for your expedition... and perhaps helpful in the proof-of-propulsion category.

I want original 35mm black and white negatives on Ilford PAN F Plus - Black & white print film sent, protected in a cooler, by courier, to Springer.

That is photographic evidence. I might travel to see the originals if Springer suggested they were worthy.

but it is still all an illusion, hocus pocus to you...

who do you serve?
are you springer?
cointelpro?
me?

...alien as they come, though entertained by your antics...

I am you,

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by photobug
It's easy to fake a photograph, If you happen to get something you should be able to provide the original film and/or the original digital file as captured by the camera. A roll of unprocesssed film verified by a third party would probably go a long way to truely proving what you saw.

Hey photobug,

In this day and age would not a real film camera be the best? It takes about 10 megs to come close to real print. I have an old A1 Canon that is manual focus but has incredible abilities to shoot good shots.

I have a nice Canon digital, but when it comes to the best shots I stick with my A1 that has a good assortment of top lens. I find that the aperture size is so much better on the A1 with a top lens and to me that is very important in low light.

It also has a powerful/fast power winder.

I also think that real film not developed goes a long way with limiting manipulation of the print as we see so much in digital.

I would tend to agree with you that a UFO captured on a film camera, especially if the film remained unprocessed until a netral observer could verify everything would be the best evidence, however still not fool proof. I could very easily Fake a UFO photo on film while maintaining the film in the camera in an unprocessed state........

Ever heard of film recorders? Well a film recorder is essentially a scanner in reverse instead of Scanning a piece of film you are actually recording on a piece of film using lasers or CRT's. So just to play devils advocate with you I could take a picture at night in my backyard using a film camera, Process and scan in the film, Use photoshop and Insert a UFO pixel by pixel so there is virtually no way to identify my handy photoshop work, I could then use a film recorder to expose several frames in the middle of a new roll of film, Load up the film into the same camera, and shoot in my backyard again at the same time of night filling the first half of the roll of film with pictures, then manually winding the film past the part that was exposed using an image recorder then continue taking pictures. I would then have a camera with an unprosesses roll of film in it that contains multiple pictures of a UFO that could be handed off to a nuetral observer.

I guess my point here is that in todays digital age anything anything can and will be faked or can and will be manipulated more easily than previously possible. I would also believe that if indeed you truely were able to capture a crystal clear shot of a real Alien space craft there would still be those out there that would try and discredit you and offer evidence as to how you faked it. This will be a never ending battle until everyone has an alien lifeform neighbor that they can actually communicate with on a personal basis.

Now lastly for my soapbox why do you think the government passed a law that mandates everything be HD by 2009? Well the answer is simple and two fold. HD or high definition digital imaging can be manipulated on the fly even during a so called live broadcast and secondly the data is much more easy to archive, and more importantly query.

BTW I am more of a NIkon man than a cannon one (just had to throw in that jab) and I am really surprised that we havn't seen any really good faked images. I would think that a really good picture of an alien space craft could earn a lot of money for it's creator.



[edit on 3-1-2008 by photobug]