The Radicalization of America, page 7

reply to post by Justin Oldham

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I had a chance to watch the Secretary of the Treasury talk about changes that the Bush administration wants to make to the Federal Reserve. To be honest, this proposal is what I would've expected from a Democrat. Once again, Mr. Bush has set forces in motion that will grow the size of government. Those who radicalize over the next decade just got one more reason to be militant.

Does anyone remember reading about the Federal Government's Manhattan Project of 1942-1945 that produced the world's first 3 atom bombs? That was the single most expensive project undertaken by the Federal government up to that time. As a major part of that project the Federal government built Oak Ridge, Tennessee. The Federal govt built Los Alamos, New Mexico. The Federal govt built Hanford, Washington. See Foot Note.

Then came the Reagan Revolution. “Government is the PROBLEM” he said with his ingratiating smile, “NOT the solution.” So we followed the Reagan Doctrine, we cut taxes on the rich and began dismantling our Federal government.

Then came September 3, 2005. A strong hurricane struck New Orleans. The Crescent city.The Big Easy. One of the 3 or 4 major cities ringing the Gulf of Mexico. Evacuate! But 35,000 people were left BEHIND and this is not Tim LaHaye talking. All poor and mostly black. Shucks, living on the floor of the Superdome was probably an UP-GRADE for them? Bush43, isolated and insulated Inside the Beltway, did a repeat of his May 1, 2003 “Mission Accomplished” performance. He flew into NO on AF1, and on a red, white and blue bunting draped stage and with his typical bravado proclaimed before national tv, “You’re doing a heck of a job, Brownie!” But alas, FEMA was NOT doing much of a job at all! FEMA had been decapitated and largely dismantled under the Reagan Doctrine. Here it is April Fool’s Day in ‘08 and NO's 9th Ward is still not habitable!*

Come quick sweet Jesus!

We have a choice. We really do have a choice. Little or no government as Reagan recommended in 1980, or a capable, well trained and prepared bureaucracy as we had in the 1940s. Government can be our servant, doing for us as a people what we cannot do for ourselves individually. There really is a choice.

* I believe the 9th Ward is being ethnically cleansed so BIG MONEY developers can put in new shopping malls, high rise offices and expensive condos. Poor OUT, rich IN.


Foot Note. Los Alamos. The population 1,909 in 2000. Los Alamos is New Mexico's best educated community, proportionately, with 68.6% of adult residents (25 and older) holding an associate degree or higher

Oak Ridge's population was 27,387 people at the 2000 census. In 1942, the United States Federal Government chose the area as a site for processing uranium ore for the Manhattan Project. Maj. Gen. Leslie Groves, military head of the Manhattan Project, liked the area. Its relatively low population made land acquisition affordable. Building Y-12, originally used for electromagnetic separation of uranium, is still in use for nuclear weapons processing and materials storage.

Oak Ridge's city school system is consistently ranked among the best public school systems in the nation. The city operates a preschool, four elementary schools enrolling kindergarten through grade 4, two middle schools enrolling grades 5 through 8, and one high school enrolling grades 9 through 12.

In an August 2004 referendum, city voters approved an increase in local sales taxes to fund a $55 million "rebuilding" project for Oak Ridge High School. Smart begats smart.

Hanford, WA. Established in 1943 as part of the Manhattan Project, it was home to the B-Reactor, the first full-scale plutonium production reactor in the world. Plutonium was used in the first nuclear bomb, tested at the Trinity site, and in Fat Man, the bomb dropped on Nagasaki. (The Hiroshima bomb - code name Little Boy - was the only uranium bomb). The Hanford Site occupies 586 square miles (1,518 km²) in Benton County, WA. It is roughly equivalent to half the total area of Rhode Island. This land is currently uninhabited and is closed to the general public. It is a semi-desert environment, covered mostly by shrub-steppe vegetation. All this is New Speak for radioactive contamination. We did not respect the risks involved in weapons making until later. City data from Wikipedia.

So who says the Federal Government is the PROBLEM?

[edit on 4/1/2008 by donwhite]

reply to post by 1stAZRangers

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Or perhaps they are going ahead with the nationalization of our banks (which really means the corporatiztion and private monopolization of our economy ... the Federal Reserve is a private bank, not a government office) ... how radical is that?

I’d prefer to say the Federal Reserve System is a quasi-public or quasi-private central banking system. Unique to America where state ownership is viewed suspiciously. Yes, it is “private” in the sense the Government does not own the banks. It is “public” however in that the System must operate under Federal laws. The Federal government appoints its Board of Governors and the Chairman.

Membership in the Fed System is optional. Or voluntary. All large banks and most medium size banks as well as some small banks are members of the Federal Reserve System. One main advantage to membership is the privilege of overnight borrowing at the posted discount rate. This is the rate we hear Chairman Bernacke raising or lowering every 6 weeks.

On the downside, your bank must conform with “sound banking practice” rules as made and enforced by the Fed System bank examiners. And, your accounts must balance at midnight every business day. If you have loaned out more money that day than you actually had, you would have to BORROW from the Fed enough money to BALANCE. The calculations would be done every day. The overnight rate would be charged until your account came into balance. The member banks are assessed a fee to pay the operating costs of the Fed System so it is “free” to taxpayers.

Example: Say the overnight discount rate is 2%. That means you “borrow” $100,000.00 and you pay back $100,000.00 but you get only $98,000.00 credited to your account. Interest is collected in advance, hence the term “discount” rate.

Other rules apply. You can’t loan money to your brother in law without the same quality and quantity of collateral a stranger would have to possess. This rule is the basis of the joke that only people who do not need money can borrow money from a bank. But after all, the banker is not loaning HIS money, but he is loaning OTHER people’s money.

The System has worked magnificently since 1913 which is a good recommendation. It took us through World War One. We got through the Great Depression. We got through World War Two. And etc. The System worked well until it came under the Reagan Doctrine of NO regulation. Some of the System member banks went astray and loaned money they had no sound banking reason to loan. Just the contrary.

That is the fault of the Republicans, not a systemic failure of the Fed System. Now we taxpayers are called upon to “FRONT” upwards of a HALF TRILLION DOLLARS to make up for those lapses in judgment. Or "insider" thievery. As when Reagan gave us the S&L debacle. Bush43 is now giving us the sub-prime meltdown! WELFARE for the RICH. But that’s old time religion for Republicans! Screw a little guy on food stamps, but give billions to bailout dumb or crooked bankers. That’s why I "love” Republicans so much. Family values. They do take care of their own!

Look at this. The home builders got paid. The realtors who sold the houses got paid. The appraisers who overvalued the houses got paid. The closing lawyers got paid. The first banks that made the original loans got paid. But now, the banks and big money guys who bought blocks of 100 or 1000 of those loans bundled together, they are about to take big losses. So they call their man in W-DC - Bush43 - and we get a BAILOUT at taxpayers expense. We know who is screwing us be we can’t do a dam thing about it. Except buy more K-Y Jelly. End.

Appendix 1. The first U.S. income tax was proposed during the War of 1812, but was defeated in Congress. In July 1861, the Congress passed a 3% tax on all net income above $600 a year ($10,000 in 2007). Other income tax laws were enacted until 1894. The 1894 tax act was ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. The tax on income was not imposed between 1895 and 1913.

Appendix 2. The Sixteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution was ratified on February 3, 1913. This Amendment overruled Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co. (1895), which limited Congress's authority to levy an income tax. This Amendment allows Congress to levy an income tax without regard to the States or the Census.

Short and sweet. Here follows the XVI Amendment:
“The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.”

Appendix 3. The Federal Reserve Act, enacted December 23, 1913, 12 U.S.C. ch.3, is the act of Congress that created the Federal Reserve System, the central banking system of the United States of America, which was signed into law by President Woodrow Wilson. From Wikipedia.

. . the Constitution of the untied states of America (yes, that is the proper way to write this country's name . .

Actually, the country’s name is EITHER the United States of America or the United States. See the following: Preamble: We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union . . Article 1 . . . vested in a Congress of the United States, which . . . . a citizen of the United States, and . . The Senate of the United States shall be . . a citizen of the United States and who . . The Vice President of the United States shall be President . . the treasury of the United States. They . .

All the above is from the First Article of the 1787 US Constitution. By the bye do you know where the US of A got its name?

A. The Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union, commonly known as the Articles of Confederation, was the first constitution of the United States of America. The thirteen states were thirteen independent countries until ratification of the Articles, proposed in 1777, was completed in 1781, whereupon the "United States of America" legally came into existence.
ARTICLE I
The Stile of this Confederacy shall be "The United States of America" See
www.earlyamerica.com...

[edit on 4/1/2008 by donwhite]

As far as I understand the rules of quorum, there wasn't one in 1913 when the Federal Reserve and Income Tax Amendments were passed. Not enough states to legally ratify. (www.freedomtofascism.com...) And the original constitution clearly stated that there will be no direct, unapportioned tax on the peoples private property, which "income" was legally considered before the IRS and Fed. The current IRS codes state that the wages earned in recompense for labor are to be defined by the current legal definition of income, which is monies derived from profit. In other words, the IRS is saying that your boss doesn't "pay you" for your "work", rather he "gives" you the money as a "gift" (out of the kindness of his heart, I suppose)therefore enabling it to fall under the income category. I don't think the IRS has any right to tell me that I don't work for money, and that all money I receive in exchange for employment is unearned.

www.restoretherepublic.com...

www.truthattack.org...

[edit on 1-4-2008 by 1stAZRangers]

reply to post by donwhite

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The US has failed to adapted to the global market driven economy . What is strange is that Bush is for Free Trade which brings access to markets but he has done nothing to help the US adapted to the demands of any new market places that have opened up. There is no use clinging to manufacturing and the old school economy.

The US doesn't suffer from a Brain Drain so there is no excuse for not making use of the best and brightest the country produces . On another note interestedly here is a comparison between Central Banks world wide . Note you might have to scroll down to find the details I refer to. This is also the source for the info posted below.

When a new Reserve Bank Governor is appointed a Policy Target Agreement is reached with the Minster of Finance . Currently the Inflation target is 2 to 3% .

Under law the NZ government could in effect over ride Reserve Bank policy for the period of one year. Although such a measure or meddling would have to be made public . So it is possible that Politicians could screw the economy to the extended painted in this thread. But again this isnt a predication it is a point of discussion .



[edit on 2-4-2008 by xpert11]

reply to post by 1stAZRangers

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As far as I understand the rules of quorum, there wasn't one in 1913 when the Federal Reserve and Income Tax Amendments were passed. Not enough states to legally ratify.

The Federal Reserve Act is a law passed by Congress. Quorum. US Con. Article 1, Section 5. Each House shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members, and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business;” A quorum would have been 49 senators and 218 representatives. Any member may raise the issue of a quorum anytime. As a “point of order” that motion takes precedence over all other motions which are usually taken up in the order they were made. I can only assume there was a quorum when it was needed.

There were 48 states in 1913, Alaska and Hawaii not coming onboard until the 1950s. 36 states - 3/4ths - had to approve the 16th amendment before it became law. On February 23, 1913, the US Secretary of State issued a proclamation declaring the amendment had been ratified by 36 states, the requisite number. Like it or not, that is the legal way to do it, and every court in the land is bound thereby. Every possible objection has been raised - copies sent to different states had different punctuation marks - and so on, but the Supreme Court generally ignores those arguments as “NOT substantive” and lower courts routinely dismiss the claims as “without merit.”

And the original constitution clearly stated that there will be no direct, unapportioned tax on the peoples private property, which "income" was legally considered before the IRS and Fed. The current IRS codes state that the wages earned in recompense for labor are to be defined by the current legal definition of income, which is monies derived from profit.

Article 1. Section. 9. FORMERLY Clause 4. “No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.” This provision of the US Con was OVERRULED by the 16th Amendment and is no longer applicable.

Even before the 16th amendment, Article 1 provided: “Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises . . “ That is still the Law of the Land.

The US Con nowhere defines “Property” or “Income.” The 16th amendment is short and sweet: “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.” In legal matters when no special definition is provided, then the term is defined by good English usage. In other words, everyone knows what “income” means without a law on the issue.

In other words, the IRS is saying that your boss doesn't "pay you" for your "work", rather he "gives" you the money as a "gift" (out of the kindness of his heart, I suppose)therefore enabling it to fall under the income category. I don't think the IRS has any right to tell me that I don't work for money, and that all money I receive in exchange for employment is unearned.

Perhaps the confusion arises because the IRS Code assesses a tax on gifts and puts the burden of paying the tax on the DONOR. The gift giver.
A GIFT is INCOME to the recipient, but giver’s of gifts are likely to the more responsible party between the two. Plus, givers usually have money and receivers usually don’t. In the 1990s the Gift Tax law exempted gifts up to $3,000 per year or $30,000 per lifetime from the tax. Hence a lot of gifts are not subject to tax. If there is no tax due, the law does not require filing of a return. I suppose the exemption amounts have been raised since then.

Tell the truth, pay your taxes as the IRS asks, and you’ll never have trouble or be unable to sleep at night. It is mostly self-employed who are caught cheating on their taxes. Ordinary workers have very little chance to cheat.

reply to post by Justin Oldham

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I find the IRS to be a hostile agency. NO two ways about it. their agency rules, customer service policies, and office procedures are all prejudicial to the tax payer. Forget trying to get an apology if they've incorrectly judged you to be a tax evader. They don't apologize for anything. The Federal Reserve and the current tax code are seen as being illegal or illegitimate by many. FDR's creative effort to give Uncle Sam the income tax is still talked about by people of lower income, especially those who don't see it as being Constitutional. As a former civil servant, I know first hand the kind of arrogance that bureaucrats can have when dealing with "civilians." As the saying goes, a few bad apples can ruin it for everyone. When a bad attitude becomes the institutional norm, everybody loses.

1) On my last job it was my task to complete an annual report on trucks and to pay a tax based on the rated weight capacity of each truck. I would go to the local IRS office and sometimes take a number, other times go right in. After the usual amenities I’d hand over my papers and wait while they checked my addition. My employer gave me a signed but blank check which I’d fill in when they confirmed or corrected my work. I did that every year for 9 years and was never treated anyway but cordially.

2) I have attended the first round of a few conferences when there is a serious difference in the amount owed as seen by the IRS versus as seen by the taxpayer. I wanted to make the client feel I shared his disdain for the IRS but I found that pretty much impossible for me because I did not have disdain for the IRS. I learned first hand that NO one’s bank account is sequestered until after many many efforts to collect the taxes due. Like
going to jail in KY, you have to work at it. Likewise with the IRS. It’s a long time between filing a return and being set out of your house. The bottom line is they - the IRS - work for 300 million people and must have the taxes due paid. If the taxpayer won’t be nice about it, then that’s his loss. But the IRS must do its duty.

3) As for apologizes when wrong. That’s not easy for anyone to do. And sometimes it is how you ask for an apology that miffs the deal. The agent may privately lay most of the blame on the taxpayer for furnishing incomplete or inaccurate information. In the end, it may be as much the taxpayers fault that got them to the apology point as the agents. If I was a local manager of the IRS, I’d suggest breaking off the conversation when it produces more heat than light and maybe there would be fewer instances where the taxpayer thought he was entitled to an apology. For me words are easy as you can tell by my overly long responses, so I’d have no trouble apologizing even if in my AuH2O heart of hearts I thought I was innocent. But for me, what the hey, if it makes a guy feel good, give it!

[edit on 4/2/2008 by donwhite]

reply to post by Justin Oldham

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What is the likelihood of a homegrown terror attack before our electons in November? This question was put to me by u2, so I'll encourage everyone to talk about here.

Zero to none.

I base that opinion on my personal life-experiences. I still recall vividly my own reaction to the 1954 Brown case when it first came down. I was too smart to be just anti-black like so many red-neck whites. So I opted for what passed briefly as "intellectual" opposition. The thrust of that argument was the Supreme Court had exceeded its authority. The Court had ruled that segregation in and of itself was per se inherently unequal and was therefore unconstitutional.

Us so-called intellectuals posited that because neither the proponents nor the opponents of segregation had raised that issue - inherently unequal - the Court went beyond its own power to reach a conclusion on issues NOT raised or briefed by the parties. Judicial restraint. This is a self-imposed limit on the exercise of judicial power. Note: When those claims finally did reach the courts, the Warren and Burger Supreme Courts rejected them outright and without comment. Regrettably that is not so in the Rehnquist and Roberts Courts. If we have more GOP judges, we may re-ignite the cities. End.

By the mid-1960s I had already undergone my own epiphany in large part due to the compassion my parents expressed for black Americans. They were happy that at long last blacks would finally have an even chance not inhibited by laws. (Not yet achieved). In other words, we always KNEW we were doing wrong but it is hard to stop when you are by yourself. All the more when your leaders are also doing wrong.

At the Federal level, FDR and HST got the ball rolling. Eleanor helped it along. Then Earl Warren gave the coup de grace to racism supported by law. Racism we still have in abundance but it is not LEGAL now. State's Rights Equals Racism. State's rights means the RIGHT for states to do wrong! If it was up to me, states would be no more than zip codes. And America would be ONE country.

Blacks are not happy and they have a 200% right not to be. But they are far from repeating the "Burn, Cities Burn" of the 1960s. Sleep easy.

Vote for Obama and FIX 400 years of white inspired racist deprivation!

[edit on 4/4/2008 by donwhite]

reply to post by Justin Oldham

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I am inclined to agree, in that I don't think we will see an act of domestic terror before the November elections. that doesn't rule out the possibility of trans-national terror. the economic situation has to get much worse here at home before we begin to turn on each other.

I feel much better now. April 6. I admit I was seriously worried 3-4 weeks ago. I could see the Dems self-destructing. But McCain’s so called biographical journey around the country has raised him not a whit in the polls. In fact, some polls show both Hillary and Barack defeating John. The major concern I had has been addressed by all the top Dems. They probably will not do what I wanted done, but to know they are on top of the situation lets me worry about other things closer to home.

My low ebb was in part pushed along by my own transformation from a strong supporter of Hillary to an equally enthusiastic but for different reasons, a supporter of Barack! Hillary has experience. Barack can raise hopes. We are at a time in our nation's life when hope may be MORE important that experience. Especially if experience only means more of the same but done BETTER. No more!

I perceive the public wants America to go in a different direction and it is not too much concerned whether Barack has all that experience or not. I do think they believe he is smart enough to get people around him who can offer sound advice. BUT he will ALSO take the country in a different and hopefully better direction.

On trans-national threats. The Bush43 VP Cheney team has lost all its credibility. As in Aesop they have lied too often! I would not believe anything either of them said, all the less if it was self-serving. The LAST 2 things those men are known and respected for are TRUTH and VERACITY.

reply to post by Justin Oldham

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I am enclined to agree, in that I don't think we will see an act of domestic terror before the November elections.

Radicalization? I suggest where the underclass feels most suppressed. Where the powers that be are out of touch with day to day life in the ghetto. Where death on the streets is commonplace. Where whites wring their hands in frustration and confusion while mostly nameless blacks are buried by the dozen! I offer you Jacksonville, FL.

Background. Jacksonville merged with Duval County some 30 odd years ago to form the 4th largest city in America, area wise, trailing behind Juneau, Alaska, with its minuscule 31,000 pop. See Note 1. Metropolitan Jacksonville is now the LARGEST city in Florida both size wise - 758 sq miles - and population-wise, 794,555 people per 2007 US Census estimates.

That is a true but misleading claim! The Florida Gold Coat, which runs south from Melbourne to Homestead on the edge of the last remains of the Okefenokee Swamp, is about 200 miles long and runs 15-20 miles deep into Florida’s hinterland. More than 3 million people live on the Gold Coast in 4 counties and over 100 incorporated cities of various sizes but which are continuous and run uninterrupted along US 1, I-95 and A1A. Amtrak rides the Florida East Coast Railroad. All north south routes. Today the Okefenokee Swamp has been reduced to 38 miles N-S X 25 miles E-W. The ONWR. Okefenokee National Wildlife Refuge. ANWR South. See Note 2.

Case. For the first 3 months of 2008, Jacksonville has had 27 homicides. 89% with firearms. Of the solved crimes, 78% were black on black. Police have shot 8 people so far this year, 6 fatally. All of them were black. So how does this compare to other cities? Miami - here listed as 404,048 people - see Gold Coast above - not unexpectedly 11 homicides. No breakdowns on means or race of victims. Charlotte NC has 630,478 population, and has 8 homicides so far this year. Orlando with 220,185 people - the Orlando are has 1.2 million - also has 8 homicides. Louisville, my hometown, with 554,496 population has 7 so far this year. Nashville with 552,120 population has also had 7 so far this year. Tampa with 332,888 people has had 5 homicides but Tampa Bay area has 1.1 million people. This includes St. Petersburg, Clearwater and other smaller towns. Last on this list and by far the SAFEST and BEST is Indianapolis, 785,597 pop. and JUST TWO (2) homicides for the first three months of 2008.

After Jacksonville Police have shot 8 and killed 6 people in the first 3 months of 2008, the long time elected sheriff who is by law the Chief of Police, had this to say: “The restraint [shown by the police] out on the street is, I think, northing short of remarkable.” 13 people have been killed by the police since January, 2007. Come quick Sweet Jesus!

FIRST, if I was either the Mayor or the Chief of Police of Jacksonville, I’d send teams of 2 or 3 smart people to 1) Charlotte, 2) Tampa Bay and 3) Indianapolis. I’d send them for 6-8 weeks to look around, talk around and see what is being done there that looks like it might help here. The Jacksonville 2008 numbers are not that much different from last year when Jax had 110 homicides.

Now here locally, we are making the same mistake over and over. We - white people - think up a NEW approach and PUSH it on the black community. Hey, look what we’re doing for you! We have not yet tried the BOTTOM UP approach to crime. Or anything else. We’re a TOP DOWN society and it’s killing us!

Note 1. Sitka Alaska claims to be the largest in square miles of any city in the US of A. But as far as people numbers go, there are hardly enough people in Sitka to fill a portable toilet so that claim is basically meaningless. Anchorage also claims to be larger in area than Juneau but they are come lately to this game of bigger is better. I assume the claims for adjacent territory in Alaska relates to gaining zoning and usage control over the FREE MARKET developers some Alaskans say they are so much in favor of. Senator Stevens comes to mind.

The first four large cities of consequence - area and populations - are, Jacksonville, Oklahoma City, Houston and Phoenix.

Note 2. In 1845, when Florida became a state, the freshwater swamp covered ALL of south Florida, about 100 miles NS and up to 150 miles EW. THEN 8,000 square miles. NOW 950 square miles. Perhaps the greatest freshwater wetlands on earth, now but just a fading memory, lost forever to DEVELOPERS. Developers are realtors backed by bankers allied with slick politicians. Probably the MOST destructive triple threat combination ever unleashed on a people or the planet. It will take 1000s of years and trillions of dollars to undo the harm these three allies in the War on Humanity have committed. Whereever they go, the planet is ruined! We are letting them SOIL the only planet we will ever have.

PS. Foregoing is based on a story in the Florida Times Union of Jacksonville for April 6, 2008, page A1. You may e-mail comments to matt.galnor@jacksonville.com

[edit on 4/6/2008 by donwhite]

reply to post by Justin Oldham

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What is the economic situation like in Jacksonville? How high is your curent uneployment rate? Are there are major business closures coming, that you know of?

Unremarkable. As for unemployment, we derive those numbers from the number of new sign-ups per month. The UI administrators STOP counting any worker out of a job more than 1 year. If we did not STOP LOSS on that statistic, we'd be running rates more like 12-14% than the more traditional 4-5% numbers we all like so much to hear.

Once in a while you will hear a vague reference to “long term unemployment” or “workers who dropped out of the work force.” It’s sort of a bad joke to tell an unemployed worker who does not have money in his pocket for a McDonald’s “Hearty Breakfast” that there are jobs in some far off city. Greyhound rides now cost almost as much as an airplane ticket and Amtrack only runs on a half dozen “profitable” routes.

When I enlisted in the AF, we got a pre-paid RR ticket to our destination and 3 US Govt. meal tickets (voucher) per day of travel time. To be signed by the server and counter-signed by the “eater” and NO tips allowed. Posted dollar limits per meal.

Then there’s lodging unless sleeping under a bridge is recommended. When I was traveling “flat broke” I’d stay over at the local YMCA. I was young and innocent then and did not know the local “Y” was a meeting place for men who favored ODD type sex. I never used the large pool most Y’s had, for the rule in those days was “swim naked.” That never appealed to me. And, I can't swim.

Economy. In the last 2 years, we have had the loss of 3,000 jobs at Mayport Navy Base, about 10 miles from downtown Jax and still in Duval County. You'd think Dumbya would remember it was Florida that made him No. 43! The last non-nuclear aircraft carrier - the JFK - had been based here which meant lots of overtime when it was in port. Those jobs mean another 6,000 dependent or second tier jobs were lost too.

Otherwise, the economic situation here seems good, housing market aside. Florida gains 3,000 new residents per day. Not all in Jax, of course, but we get our share. Many of those 3000 bring their lifetime accumulated WEALTH with them. That is bound to be good for any economy. And BAD for the losing economy. Of course, we have NO income tax and NO estate tax here. Hey, don't the R&Fs take care of their own?

Radicalizing. Policing at its best is hard, nasty work. You are by the nature of the beast compelled to deal with the crud of the earth. The down and out-ers. The born losers. The sick. The angry. The illiterate. And the plain old gangster or hoodlum element. Police are rarely called to an upscale, riverside home birthday party for 6 year olds. Police are rarely summoned to the neighborhood convenient store to help old ladies across the street.

And, I grant to each policemen the reasonable right to expect to go home safely at the end of each shift to his or her family.

But there is something desperately wrong when any police force kills 13 of its citizens in 15 months, and the CHIEF says he is “Surprised at the RESTRAINT of his police.” As if the Chief expected MORE of the locals to be KILLED? It is hard to expect improving conditions when that is the attitude at the TOP. It is for sure another example of Top Down gone awry.

It’s endemic in America. It’s partly Amend 2 type thinking. It’s partly race based housing patterns and poor schooling. It’s the combination of a lot of bad decisions coming together in one place and at one time. Maybe the Perfect Storm?

reply to post by reluctantpawn

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Don and Justin . . [what’s] your takes as to how education plays in the upcoming course of events. I see a deliberate attempt to keep people in the dark about true current events.

On the one hand, I’d like to think the MSM has conspired to dumb us down. We know from a few leaks that the big advertisers do in fact influence the NEWS that is broadcast to the public. Take Wall Street insider trading. The SEC never catches one until some one “drops them in.” Most often discovered as part of a plea bargain in a prosecution driven by other crimes. You can imagine the temptation is SO great, the opportunities are SO many and the likelihood of being caught are SO slim that it must be widespread.

Anyone with a computer could track the inside trading though not necessarily the inside trader. He or she would use Bahama or Nigeria based companies to hide his or her identity but the FACT of illicit trading would be easy to catch on to. IF you were looking. As long as you have people like Rudy Giuliani who made a reputation prosecuting organized crime in NYC - has there ever been a time when there was NOT organized crime in NYC - but almost never prosecuted anyone on Wall Street! Hey, one hand washes the other!

While I general try to defend a more self sufficient type of lifestyle and support less government, I just don't think the Republicans have a chance. They all seem to be in the pockets of large corporations.

Operative words: “ . . more self sufficient type of lifestyle . . “ which for the most part falls on deaf ears to us liberal types. We are chagrined when the US Govt puts $200 b. into Wall Street in the blink of an eye followed with a promise that another $200 b. will be forthcoming IF NEEDED. NOT even a hearing is scheduled or a Commission appointed. We have not debated publicly why it happened. Sweet Jesus come quick!

How much “stolen” money that humongous INJECTION of public money will cover remains to be seen. This debacle shall join the 1980s Half Trillion Dollar Scam called the Saving and Loan debacle on Reagan’s watch. Is there NO shame amongst capitalists? How in God’s Holy Name is a public money handout for Bear Stearns etc. GOOD but a hands up for 47 million uninsured Americans BAD? Ask Milton Freidman.

John McCain had a “dirty” hand in the old S&L debacle which he barely escaped indictment back then for misuse of his office, but it may come back to haunt him in ‘08. Neal (Neil?) Bush also barely escaped possible prison time for a $70 millon Silverado S&L write-off.

That's my take, Mr Reluctantpawn.

[edit on 4/7/2008 by donwhite]

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
I was just wondering on your takes as to how education plays in the upcoming course of events. I see a deliberate attempt to keep people in the dark about true current events. I also see a move by the people [sad as it is] to ignore what is really happening here.

Knowledge is power. This is more true now than it ever was. Big business and big government are both aware that their moves can be watched. they know that, through the internet, their actions can be talked about. It's in their best interest to dumb us down. Recent events turned on hidden agendas. Now, they act openly, with the intent of exploiting disaster.

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
I too see Obama making a strong campaign based solely on change. The people are tired of the same ol' same ol'. While I general try to defend a more self sufficient type of lifestyle and support less government, I just don't think the republicans have a chance. They all seem to be in the pockets of large corporations.

Americnas vote with their hearts in the primaries. In the general election, we vote with our wallets. When we go to the polls in November, we'll all be hurting as the economy continues its collapse. No Republican can win, in the face of that. McCain's one real shot is to make his age count, and play to the national security crowd. It's not really a question of winning. As much as it hurts me to say, it's really a matter of how much does he lose by? A lot? Or, just a little?

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
I see that the PTB are willing to let the people slug it out and let the cards fall where they lay. This will only be exasperated by the influx of those that are undocumented whether they are the cause or not. This allows them the opportunity to stay in power and continue on in there self serving ways.

As my signature says, they serve us...or...we serve them. If they have it their war, we WILL serve them.

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