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To all Believers of the Official Story:

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posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by SlightlyAbovePar
 


Be that as it may as reported, pilots are instructed never to open the cockpit door, except to other crew members not under duress. What I read from instructions given to pilots, particularly commercial jetliner pilots, they are allowed to take hijackers anywhere they wish to go and safely land the plane. However, under no circumstances are they to give up the control of the plane to anyone else, including hijackers.




posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 02:11 PM
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Who said they kicked the doors in?

There were keys for the door on the aircraft.

The FAA required all airlines to have a key to the cockpit door readily available to the passenger cabin crew.

This came about in 1996 after an engine explosion on a DC-9. The explosion caused a fire and damaged the communication systems that allowed the passenger cabin crew to communicate with the cockpit. The flight crew could not get into the cockpit because it was locked and they had no key. The pilots were not aware of the fire. That is why there were cockpit keys on board the aircraft that were hijacked on September 11, 2001.

Don't believe me? Google Boeing key. Read Mary Schiavo's testimony to the 9/11 commission. Read the footnotes for chapter 1 in the 9/11 commission final summary.


United flight attendants, unlike those at American, did not carry cockpit keys. Instead, such keys were stowed in the cabin-on Flight 175, in the overhead bin above seats 1A and 1B in first class.
Chapter 1. Note 41.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by Boone 870
 


Are you saying someone gave any alleged hijackers keys involuntarily or voluntarily? If so, who?



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by Bunch
I ask the conspiracy guys to give me chance here and read the post in its ENTIRETY, before coming all out at me. READ, ANALYZE AND TELL ME WERE IM WRONG. May be you convince me as you convice yourself.

What is so complicated about a group of 19,20 well finance people to get access to the US, some of then go to fly school, then get together be able to sneak by boxcutters, hijack 4 planes, and crash them to buildings?

Im going to try to analize those one by one to the best of my abilities:


Hi Bunch, I try to the best of my abilities to give my take on your remarks, nothing more then that:


1. Get 19 to 20 fanatical radical muslims willing to die for their cause?, not problematic at all.

It is also common knowledge that there are non Muslims who do also everything necessary and whatever it takes to achieve their goals either?

2. Get access to the US at that time?, well we basically put the red carpet out everytime a Saudi visit this country, so no that problematic either IMO.

Can you explain to me, how they managed to pick precisely a day that the most powerful Air Force in the world, was doing practice, so they have plenty of time to fly a bit around before they attack ?

3. Well finance?, they were Saudis, of course no money problems there.

There are so many people for who money is also no problem either.

4. Go to fly school?, we have people from the ME going to Harvard and Princeton, why not a couple of flying school.

Good point.

5. Box cutters?, to this day TSA is exposed not able to spot weapons and explosives, so back in 01 sneak boxcutter wouldnt be a problem.

Possible.

6. Hijack 4 planes?, a terrorist practice that had been done for quite a while, so nothing new besides that the 4 were done the same day, which showed a good amount of coordination.

Well, if it where 4 small piper planes, I would say your right, but to fly 4 big Boeings so precise to targets like the Twin towers and especially the Pentagon[the fourth target is unknown] is in my opinion definitely something else.

7. Crash them to building?, I had a chance of flying in a simulator once, flying can be a daunting task for someone that has no training, like plotting your course and stuff like that, the hardest part for me in the simulator was landing something this guys didnt need it to worry about.

So, as you said yourself it is difficult even in a simulator, that means to me that these guys had every reason to worry, and what do you think of the pilot who flies into the pentagon he must surely have worry a bit doint you think.

Im not going to get into the CD arguement because to be honest Im not to technical savy, with all the physics and other lingo.

Another point, people saw planes, people heard planes, people saw planes crash into buildings.

But there are different testimonies, so how do you kno what is the right one?

Now let me stop here and make a comment, if you have read my post til this point, I gave you a specific set of conclusions that I can assume are true to the best of my knowledge and I consider myself an above average educated person. When the offical story comes out it makes sense to me and I go mad and want revenge from the radical muslims, the heck with Bin Laden and lets bomb the crap out of them. Not too hard of a story to make people believe IMO, if its not true.

Now this to the conspiracy folks out there:

-For every conspiracy put out there, either CD, or no planes, hollograms whatever there is someone else debunking those.

Well, we in Holland have a saying,” look further then your nose is long”.

-The conspiracy supporters cant even agree on which one was it.

There are different opinions, yes.

And am I supposed to believe a story that make sense, or something that doesnt (holllogram,no planes, control demolition)? The reality is that for all the conspiracies that are out there the one that makes the most sense is the one called "THE OFFICIAL STORY".

I know, it is hard for many out there, but the reality in my opinion is, that "THE OFFICIAL STORY" is the one that makes the least sense and the one that claims that it was “AN INSIDE JOB” makes how unbelievable it is the most sense.

Besides this discussion, I want you to know, that for me, my wife, and every one in the Netherlands, it was a gigantic tragedy of unbelievable proportions, and I hope with all my heart that those who are really responsible, will pay the price for it.

Well Bunch, it is not my intention to attack you personally in any way, I respect your opinion of it, so I hope you respect mine.
I just want react on your reply.


[edit on 5/1/08 by spacevisitor]



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by OrionStars
reply to post by Freaky_Animal
 


Would the crew in the cockpit be so deaf they could not determine from which direction a bang was heard, if someone was trying to kick in the cockpit door? They certainly know when the stewards or stewardesses are knocking on the door to bring them coffee, snacks, or breakfast, lunch, or dinner.


See my previous post, the flightdeck of a B757/67 is a rather noisy enviroment, then put on a headset and it's nearly impossible to decide from where a outside noise is coming.

Pre and post 9/11 no memers of the cabin crew ever tried to enter the flightdeck without talking to us on the intercom first.

That was our Standard Operating Procedure back then, and still is today.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by Boone 870Don't believe me? Google Boeing key. Read Mary Schiavo's testimony to the 9/11 commission. Read the footnotes for chapter 1 in the 9/11 commission final summary.


Key or numpad was a customer option, i guess UAL had key locks on the cockpit doors back then, i dont know about AA.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by spacevisitor
 


I pondered why two alleged hijacked planes took the very long scenic route over Ohio, before someone decided to double back toward the direction of DC. One from way far northwest and the other way far almost due west. And still no US interceptors had time to intercept either of those pesky alleged hijacked planes. They were never lost on FAA or NORAD radar. There were plenty of bases close to send out interceptors on both alleged flights 77 and 93 prior to anything happening.

Nothing from the "official" reports made logical sense.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by Freaky_Animal
 


So what proof do you have as to how any of those cockpit doors were locked by key code combination, and who would have given alleged hijackers the keycode combination to open any cockpit door? FYI, key code combinations are relatively very new, and it is highly improbably any of the four alleged planes had cockpit doors equipped with that type of sophisticated technology.

This is a proved fact. Just because someone testifies to something does not make that testimony the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Anyone researching court cases can easy detect that in witness testimony, of those witnesses caught lying under oath - committing perjury.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by OrionStars
reply to post by Freaky_Animal
 


So what proof do you have as to how any of those cockpit doors were locked by key code combination, and who would have given alleged hijackers the keycode combination to open any cockpit door? FYI, key code combinations are relatively very new, and it is highly improbably any of the four alleged planes had cockpit doors equipped with that type of sophisticated technology.

This is a proved fact. Just because someone testifies to something does not make that testimony the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Anyone researching court cases can easy detect that in witness testimony, of those witnesses caught lying under oath - committing perjury.


Man, stop behaving like a angry terrier and read posts before reply to them.

My company had keyless flight deck dors as early as 1989, as i said it was a customer option.

To my knowledge UAL had doors operated with keys.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to [url=http://www.ab


Are you saying someone gave any alleged hijackers keys involuntarily or voluntarily? If so, who?


Did you read my last post?

Try to think for yourself on this one. Do a little research. Stop parroting what you read on conspiracy sites.

BOEING KEY Google it!



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by Freaky_Animal
 



Key or numpad was a customer option, i guess UAL had key locks on the cockpit doors back then, i dont know about AA.


Both United and American had cockpit door keys on the flights. American Airlines flight attendants carried the keys on them. United Airlines stored the key in the overhead luggage compartments.

The hijackers took surveillance flights in the weeks leading up to 9/11. That would have given them the opportunity to learn where the keys were stored.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Freaky_Animal
 


Why don't you stop relying on ad hominem, and state one of two statements?:

1. "I'm not going to answer your questions because I can't."

2. "I'm not going to answer your questions because I don't want to."

If you can logically refute (disprove with valid physical evidence) my points of argument or answer my questions, please do so now and in the future.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by Boone 870
 


That is not valid proof. It does not matter what someone said. It matters as to whether or not it can be physically proved by the person saying it. It goes to the highly significant issue of someone's credibility in testimony.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by Boone 870
 


It really does not make much reasonable safety sense on behalf of the cockpit crew, for the cabin crew to be going around flashing any key to the cockpit to every passenger onboard.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by OrionStars
 

It really does not make much reasonable safety sense on behalf of the cockpit crew, for the cabin crew to be going around flashing any key to the cockpit to every passenger onboard.


I couldn't agree more. Apparently, a lot of people in the aviation industry agrees too. Pilots talking about flight attendants having cockpit door keys.

NTSB recommending that all flight attendants have keys.
page 6



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by Boone 870
 


I would surmise the cabin crew supervisor may have a key, would not flash it around, and keys would not be given to every cockpit and cabin crew employee. The pilot and supervisor may well be picking up keys, sign them out, and turning, plus, signing them back in them in at the end of any particular flight. It would be foolish to have a key assigned to every employee boarding any commercial aircraft.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 07:42 PM
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Everyone should watch ZEITGEIST, great documentary with information that most of us have no idea about....maybe not those of use on ATS but the rest of society will see this as a wakeup call...or not!

Also, check out SEPTEMBER CLUES....great video about 9/11 and the role of the media that day.

Good hunting....

Purduegrad05



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by OrionStars
 

I would surmise the cabin crew supervisor may have a key, would not flash it around, and keys would not be given to every cockpit and cabin crew employee. The pilot and supervisor may well be picking up keys, sign them out, and turning, plus, signing them back in them in at the end of any particular flight. It would be foolish to have a key assigned to every employee boarding any commercial aircraft.


Surmise all you like, that's not the regulations that the airlines followed pre-September 11. There were keys accessible to all flight attendants. Are you denying that?



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by Boone 870
 


Why don't you cite the rules, concerning keys, of all the airlines since you are so certain of that? The airlines make their own rules as to who has access to cockpit keys and who does not. They also make the rules as to signing them in and out on each flight. Because the same crew normally does not access the same planes on every flight they work.



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by OrionStars
 

Why don't you cite the rules, concerning keys, of all the airlines since you are so certain of that? The airlines make their own rules as to who has access to cockpit keys and who does not. They also make the rules as to signing them in and out on each flight. Because the same crew normally does not access the same planes on every flight they work.


Why would I cite the rules to all airlines?

I've cited the rules of United Airlines and American Airlines.

Did you Google Boeing Key?

One key fits all locks on Boeing aircraft. Mary Schiavo's testimony to the commission. If you think she's a shill, read her bio at the beginning of the link. She used to work for the government, then she authored a book detailing the dangers of airline safety, and now she is an attorney that sues the pants off of negligent airlines. She also represents several 9/11 victim families.


2.Airline doors were flimsy and could be opened with the same key and before 9/11
pilots warned this was dangerous. They should listen to them. This was not reasonable, when
in the months preceding September 11, 2001, there were 16 cases of people breaking into the
cockpit, most in the U.S., and U.S. aviation had suffered several terrorist attacks on jets by breaking
into the cockpit and killing or injuring the pilots. Before 9/11 pilot associations and unions begged
for better doors and to have the cockpit door keys taken away from flight attendants Source



Deny Ignorance, OrionStars.



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