Vibrating at a different frequency

If we "percieve our world", in the following manner, "With our eyes we can sense (perceive) a very narrow range of atomic vibration frequencies (wavelengths from 0.3 to 0.7 micrometers - from violet to red). A mix of the vibration frequencies in the above range we perceive with our eyes as light of various colors. We can measure this mix precisely by recording a spectrum of light, but ONLY using special instruments.
Our eyes contain only 3 types of photosensitive cells: Red, Green and Blue (RGB). These are vibration sensors. They operate using the principle of a resonance and they are �tuned� for 3 frequencies: red green and blue."

Why then, could it not be possible, that "aliens" vibrate at a totally differrent resonance? If it would be possible, then that could explain the "somtimes you see them, somtimes you don't."
Would it be possible to create a device that would make the human body vibrate at a different frequency? (Yeah I know a little "a la Predator") I know the military is working on a similar project that "bends light, therefore not allowing an object to be seen.
Your thoughts?

Actually, I think this theory has been hit upon or at least touched upon before by John Keel who suspected that maybe we are in a deminsion with many things we can't normally see unless by chance through some brief changing event from one to the other.

As for the technology to bend light, fiber optics.

I think you are mistaking light for matter.

You see light of specific frequencies, not matter. To have a transparent or invisible creature it would need to completely transmit any light behind it.

Or are you sugestion a pure energy based life form?

I'm not sure I understand.

If you train the mind you could see all sorts of things. Don't believe everything they tell you.

Originally posted by ScienceGuyQ
I think you are mistaking light for matter.

You see light of specific frequencies, not matter. To have a transparent or invisible creature it would need to completely transmit any light behind it.

Or are you sugestion a pure energy based life form?

I'm not sure I understand.

But to see that matter, the light has to reflect off of it right?
So why would it not be possible to create something that would not allow the light to be reflected thus rendering it "invisible"

Sorta like this article

www.uncoolcentral.com...

Though I know this is just an illusion cause it transmits the image behind the coat onto the front so it appears they can "see through" the coat..or something like that
They are working on "Predator Technology" though

www.businessweek.com...



[Edited on 10-2-2004 by NetStorm]

Oh ok, i guess i was just reading more into it than i should have. So basicly, transparent creatures.

They would have to be drasticaly different forms of life, but I see no reason it isn't possible.

Our eye contains four types of photosensitive cells: red, green, blue and overall brightness. They don't work with resonance. I only know of the overall brightness cells exactly how they work. In your eye cells there are complex molecules called rhodopsine. Rhodopsine is a combination of the enzyme opsine and the biochemical 11-cis-retinal. Light makes the 11-cis-retinal change shape into 11-trans-retinal. The new complex opsine and 11-trans-retinal influence the cGMP molecules which regulate the electrical signals in the optical nerves. The color photosensitive cells work in a comparable way, but with a different pigment.

I think a large life form that is transparent is almost impossible. There are tiny sea creatures that are transparent, but their optical density is higher. This makes the light bend and that how you can spot them. A truly transparent creature should have a way to adept their optical density to their environment. I don't think this can be done.

Topic with some science, Great ! I've seen "Predator" but none of the revisit movies. I prefer to
think about the concept in this manner :: Suppose that the scientific community
were presented with the reality of such a situation as occurred in the original film.
Suppose you are assigned on the team to investigate the technology demonstrated.
BTW wasnt it Arnold who was the only survivor of the original film? The task is
to determine what technology was demonstrated by the "invisibility" of Predator.
Yeah, I know, it had lasers and other neet toys but due to NetStorm's focus, our team
aint assigned to shoulder-fired anti-personnel blasters. So we interview the Govenator
as the only qualified "observer". (Having seen the movie, the knowledge he has from
his observations is easier to resolve.)
So, after the interview, our team is presented with the following info (Remember, this is
not a group of conspiracy buffs, so a consensus can be reached)

Technology choices are ::
1. Invisibility (undefined - outside the box concept)
2. Camoflage
3. Transparency
4. Black Body (Total Light Absorbtion)

Observational evidence is listed below (Eye witness account)
1. Power source was Nuclear. (Remember the end
of the movie? Lots of residual observation can be measured at ground zero.
It was not a convential explosive due to physical evidence of blast versus volume
of non-nuclear explosives. Plus Predator would not have carried a mini-nuke
unless it also doubled as his power supply. I.E. all observations indicate that
Predator was not running thru the jungle with the intent to become a suicide
bomber.) 2. Power utilization was electro-magnetic (eye witness
account describes impact on Predators "invisibility" due to submersion in water.
Lets not get side-tracked in the implications of the failure of Preds invisibility under the
same conditions which had no effect on his blaster.)
3. Invisibility device was not pressure tested, or certified.
(while it may have been waterproof like most "timex" watches, you can't go scuba
diving with a watch that aint "pressure certified" below your diving depth.)
4. Last but most important, the invisibility device was actually
visible when in motion. "I.....can see....you...." (Opps thats cheating as that witness got
lased.....no ...no....Govenator saw it to, just before it shorted out.)

1st analysis
Based upon observations, we can throw out number 4. Black Body.
(Does not match observations as background of Predator was visible.)
We can also throw out number 2, but the rationale is more
convoluted. Has to do with difficulties in doing sky/water/earth simultaneously.
That leaves 3. Transparency, which matches all of our
observations. What about 1. you ask? It was there as a safety net in case our understanding
of current technology has no parallels to what was observed. If there is an understood parallel
technology, we start there.


And the point of all this was to answer the challenge presented by quote ::

amantine ===>A truly transparent creature should have a way to adapt their optical
density to their environment. I don't think this can be done.

Amantine, you perfectly stated the BELIEF many of the above team members
would have to overcome in order to procede. The above scenario demonstrates how
anything can be attempted. But first you have to believe it can be done.
A hundred years ago everyone believed man could never fly. I think they would have
locked you up back then if you told them about "Spirit" and "Opportunity" on Mars.

The final comment here is that "Radar Stealth" already exists. Although Netstorm used
the term "vibration", we are actually talking about the "frequency spectrum",
and his visual frequency wave lengths, though only a few orders of
magnitude less than radar frequencies, do have strong parallels. The F117 represents
the Wright Brother's first flight and the "Predator" device
would be "Spirit" on Mars.

/\/ight\/\/ing

everything is light. all matter is composed of light ...every thing is wave vibration...our bodys are not more than a electromagnetic wave... this is fact...we are pictures played out on the backdrop of space and time... Phantasmagoria.....God is the sole reality.... not else....the real never is not the unreal ever is not ....
The Baghavad Gita (26:1)

I have always believed that this is discussable.

Take sound for example...another wave, even though mass is needed to transmit.

A fixed frequency can change when applied to one moving body. Doppler effect.

Factually you could push the doppler if applied properly, to push the sound into one frequency range that cannot be heard. (above 25khz)

Light can be affected similarly.

As well as matter.

So my feeling is if the environment vibration could be modified, all mass within this environment would begin to oscillate at this reference rate.

You could, 'phase-shift' into another reality by oscillating your mass, out of a normaql environment, and into another normal, but faster or slower environment.

You would be 'transported' as your mass begins to oscillate at another frequency that is not perceivable any longer to one observer, and becomes perceivable to a new observer in the new oscillation. All while standing in one place.

You could oscillate yourself into the infrared, and not be visable to any normal human.

Smirkley, that would only shift the light you radiate and reflect to another frequency. You will still block the light from behind you (for the observer). He can still see your shape, just not your colours. I also think oscillating that fast is a bit unpractical. Think about all the force on your body.

Well, nightwing, I still think it's pretty much impossible to change your optical density, at least for carbon/water based life. How can a lifeform make his body as optically dense as air without falling apart? The light refraction is not even such a large problem as the simple fact there will always be certain molecules that absorb light. There are so many sometimes very large molecules in our body. They all absorb different frequencies. How you want to stop them for absorbing the light?

Originally posted by NetStorm

Would it be possible to create a device that would make the human body vibrate at a different frequency? (Yeah I know a little "a la Predator") I know the military is working on a similar project that "bends light, therefore not allowing an object to be seen.
Your thoughts?

Better yet create a device that processes the infomation to allow you to see other frequency's - sort of nightvision binoculars on steroids.

As far as a Predator type device - I think rather than going through the trouble of bending light to camouflage a soldier. Develope a suit made out of flexible display material & mount a couple cameras to fill the display suit with the soldiers surroundings. Very simple concept.

Originally posted by amantine
Smirkley, that would only shift the light you radiate and reflect to another frequency. You will still block the light from behind you (for the observer). He can still see your shape, just not your colours. I also think oscillating that fast is a bit unpractical. Think about all the force on your body.

Kinda like ultra-sonic cleaners,...if you were to keep increasing the frequency, at some point the oscillations will bring the liquid to oscillate to the point where it atomizes. What a mess that could be.

But the light will reflect depending on surface charachteristics, and of course some wavelengths will be absorbed, producing the actual reflected color.

But if you could, imagine bringing a reflective solid's mass to a higher oscillation from an external reference, and with those atoms oscillating at an abnormal and increased rate (to the observer) , I would think the reflective or absorbsion charachteristics may change.

I would also think (without research to back it) that atoms oscillating faster would alter the assumed doppler affect of the reflected wavelengths.

And the atomic de-stabilization of the bonding of the atoms and compounds together, that would be suggested, would atomize the oscillated material. But if there were a way to maintain an environment where all atoms around are oscillated, that may keep the bond together.

Does the wind outside your car blow your hair at 55 mph with the windows up? Or how about a shuttle pilot, in orbit, travelling at thousands of earth mph's, they are not blown apart.

Lilblam just tried to pull this vibrating at a different frequency bull#e on me 15 minutes ago.

Could this be a cause to scitsophonia? Excuse the poor spelling : 0

Originally posted by smirkley
Does the wind outside your car blow your hair at 55 mph with the windows up? Or how about a shuttle pilot, in orbit, travelling at thousands of earth mph's, they are not blown apart.

I agree that cars are not blown apart, but the speed associated with doppler shifts that are visible is so fast that you will be 'blown apart'.

z = Δλ / λ0
v / c = ((z + 1)^2 - 1)/((z + 1)^2 + 1) source

If you want to shift the frequency 50%, then Δλ / λ0 = 0,5, solving for v gives:

v = ((0.5 + 1)^2 - 1)/((0.5 + 1)^2 + 1 ) c
v = 0.38c

That is really really fast.

[Edited on 14-2-2004 by amantine]

www.abovetopsecret.com...

How did we go from being able to change the way a person/object vibrates to schizophrenia?

"Predator Technology" is being worked on.

www.nasatech.com...

though this is not exactly what I was wondering about.
If you believe in The Hermetic Laws, (not saying I do, using this as an example) everything vibrates from one end of the spectrum, to another.
www.lightparty.com...

Can you see an atom? No but they are there.
To view them, we use the atomic force microscope (AFM)
(If you are interested in seeing how it works here is the link)
stm2.nrl.navy.mil...

www.findarticles.com...

Now why couldn't a device be developed, that would do the opposite of what the AFM does, (Which if you read the second link, you will see that the AFM, is blind at times)
"When the AFM's cantilever tip passes over the graphite, it gently tugs on each carbon atom but can detect the attractive forces only between the tip and the beta atoms. That's because electrons in the alpha atoms overlap with those of the atoms below, restricting interactions between the electrons and the AFM tip. In contrast, the less-fettered electrons of the beta atoms show up in AFM images."

I know that the device would have to work at the atomic level to make an object "invisible" but could it be possible, and what would the dangers be of such a device changing the way your atomic structure or that of an object "vibrates"

An atomic force microscope has nothing to do with invisibility. At least in any way I can see. Such a microscope measures the electric attraction. How can something do the opposite of measuring? I'm sorry if I fail to understand it, but could you explain clearly again what you really want to do?

Originally posted by amantine
An atomic force microscope has nothing to do with invisibility. At least in any way I can see. Such a microscope measures the electric attraction. How can something do the opposite of measuring? I'm sorry if I fail to understand it, but could you explain clearly again what you really want to do?

I'm not saying it has anything to do with invisibilty. I used it as an example of being able to "see" something that is all around you yet you DO NOT see or percieve.
Now WHAT IF we could actually change the electrical attraction slow it down/speed it up what would happen? Lets use outsiders post "Better yet create a device that processes the infomation to allow you to see other frequency's - sort of nightvision binoculars on steroids."
Ok, we can now see it. But if we had a device that could actually affect/change/modify the atomic level of the the object could we make an object "disappear" by changing the way its atomic /elctron/proton/ attraction/opposition works?