World Changing Events About To Take Place

reply to post by AshleyD


And just to piggy back on your post...the Nicean Council was in 326 ad! Long before the supposed Gospel of Thomas was said to be written. I appreciate your knowledge of the history of the Cannonization. I hope they don't think that the Gospel Writers also wrote in the Verse and Chapter numbers for us as well!!!!!!

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Don't worry about it. There is NO pre-tribulation rapture. That notion came from the Rapture Cult started by Nelson Darby in the mid 1800s.

I don't believe this is fully correct. Although Darby popularized the rapture doctrine in modern times, the earliest known extrabiblical reference to a pretribulation rapture is dated from about 4th or 8th century A.D. It's in a work known as the Sermons of Ephraim (if this is so then it would be a 4th century work) or Pseudo-Ephraim (which would give it an 8th century date). I'm about 98% certain of a pretribulation rapture but there is still that 2% doubt in my mind that it is an incorrect doctrine.

AshleyD
The Gospel of Thomas was not written by original eye witnesses, was authored around the third and fourth centuries A.D. (while the authentic Gospels were written in the first century), and it had no confirmation by early extrabiblical witnesses as to its authority and authorship. These were all standards required for canonization. So we're supposed to accept a pseudographical account that came centuries after the fact just because they squeeze Jesus into the story?

I suggest you do some research because some scholars actually believe the Gospel of Thomas precedes the other gospels. Therefore your argument holds no weight.

The early camp argues that since it consists of mostly original material and does not seem to be based on the canonical gospels, it most likely was transcribed from an oral tradition. Since the practice of considering oral tradition as authoritative ended during the 1st century, the Gospel of Thomas therefore had probably been written before the year 100, perhaps as early as around 40. Since this date precedes the dates of the traditional four gospels, there is some claim that the Gospel of Thomas is or has some connection to the hypothetical Q document—a text (or oral verse) that, with Mark, is postulated to have been a source for the gospels of Matthew and Luke.[2] The early camp argues that about half of the material in Thomas has no known parallels to the New Testament, and at least some of this material could plausibly be attributed to the historical Jesus, such as saying 42 "Be passers-by".

The early camp also notes that Q is almost universally regarded by secular biblical scholars as the most parsimonious explanation for the synoptic problem and is widely regarded to be the earliest written text of Jesus' teachings. It has been hypothesized that Q exists in 3 strata, termed Q1, Q2, and Q3, with the apocalyptic material belonging in Q2 and Q3. Secular biblical scholars have identified 37 sayings that overlap between Thomas and Q, all of which are conjectured to be in either Q1 or Q2 and none of which included the latter, apocalyptic material of Q3.[citation needed] As Thomas does not incorporate material from Q3, it was not aware of Q3 and precedes it. The Q layers of Q1 and Q2 are thought to predate the four gospels. Hence the Gospel of Thomas is thought to be early

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by kindred
I suggest you do some research because some scholars actually believe the Gospel of Thomas precedes the other gospels. Therefore your argument holds no weight.

So you're saying the opinion of some scholars 2,000 years after the fact (therefore who were not eye witnesses to the events) should overturn the scholarship of those who were alive in New Testament times and eye witnesses to the events.

And if my argument is in agreement with the standard of canonization, all of which The Gospel of Thomas fails to meet, then I'm not sure how it holds no weight.

Personally I do not think it is the end times, that is my conclusion based on over thirty years of study and experience with spiritual matters..

I do feel however that we are about to experience a nuclear and biological holocaust.

It has already begun in a way with the French President Zarckosy.

He is being set up so a false god called in the bible the king of Persia can use him to make his co-conspirators look right.

They are planning a big 9/11 type event in Jerusalem which I think it is already set up to go they are just waiting for Zarkosy to visit Iran and have the big media hoopla of Peace in the Middle East.

Once everyone is convinced that things are finally going to calm down then they will blow up the Dome of the Rock or some major religious site in a spectacular way making Zarkosy look like the modern day Chamberlain giving them the appearance of being right for what they are about to do.

From their it will escalate with different groups seeing it as their opportunity to make their move

China will move on Taiwan, North Korea will move on south Korea, Israel will move on Iran, Turkey will move on Iraq, Pakistan will fall to Militants.

The bulk of the US war machine will be obliterated with a couple of Russian nukes in Bagdad and most of our population will die from bio weapons.

If it does devole into a real world war I predict Islamic radicals will win for the simple fact that they mostly live in deserts and are use to surviving under extreme conditions.

Plus they are the first ones fully exploiting the logistical ability of a religion which gives them a decisive advantage in a true global war.

What you will see is the rise of the first fully integrated global system, the coalescing of corporation, government, and religion to form a functional world state like existed pre-flood.

So it is my opinion we are not in the end days we are witnessing the birth pains of the whore of Babylon.

If this is the birth of the Beast of the Apocalypse that the bible is talking about then it will rule the earth for a thousand years and when it comes to power that will mark the beginnings of revelations.

It would be nice if we weren't on the wrong side of history but what can you do.

[edit on 2-1-2008 by newday]

The Ethereal Library may clarify the many changes in text to the current rendition of the Bible.

You can find out more at the following link.

www.ccel.org...

The Ecumenucal and Sardica councils, the Canons of the 217, all of these changes were decided by men, and that is what you are reading in this current Bible. What about all the rejected texts that didn't make it into this book? The Gospel of Judas for one.

In Genesis, who did Adam and Eves' offspring procreate with? Certainly not any of the "Giants" or "Fallen Angels" as you call them. That was later.

Lastly, If all this is true, then Enoch rocks. The only Man since Sin that never died.

Here is a link with some good info. An over view of how thing have happen!


www.youtube.com...

[edit on 1/3/2008 by XcLuciFer]

The truth of the matter is you only know what you've been told. Its very easy to tell when some one has looked at this stuff objectively. Its impossible to be a part of any religion once you look at all of them. They are like little children, all claiming to be the fathers favorite, all claiming to be the only why to God. Giving your interpretation of the Bibble and quoting scripture are to different things.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by AshleyD
I'm about 98% certain of a pretribulation rapture

I'm 100% certain that there isn't a pretribulation rapture.

But that isn't the topic here so I won't get into it with ya. If you are interested ... we've all discussed it in BTS religion forum. You might find some of the discussions of interest.

Here's my 2 cents worth --

My religion, which is significantly different from the old ones, divides the creation into 3 parts. Two of those parts are temporary, the divisions within "matter". The third is purely spiritual, is inward and upward in nature. The lower two are downward and outward in nature. IE they are the opposite in nature to the spiritual. They exist to facilitate the spirits in exhausting imperfections by pushing imperfections out via desire. (Taking a crap is a reflection of this principle) Good is what causes the spirit to go inward and upward, bad is what causes it to go downward and outward. The Devil is near the top of the higher material division. The one next to the purely spiritual. That division has more spirit than matter. The Devil is, at best, the "God" of the old religions. He rules over the regions of matter by convincing people to believe in lies. That is the nature of things here and it will be that way so long as the material regions exist, which is another quarter million years or so.

We are located near the bottom of the lower division of matter. There is very little spirit and a very high percent of matter. That is basically why everyone is so week and really helpless here. Though, like a jackass tethered to a stake it is free to believe it has lots of freedom and in charge of it's space. A lot has transpired in the world in the 150 years since my religion began. A lot of imperfections are being working on by the spirits that have come here and been fortunate enough to assume human form. That will continue. Only the human form contains the 666 or potential access to the entire creation from the lowest to the highest. If the imperfections where not "real" and if this process wasn't the best way to exhaust them, the worlds of matter wouldn't exist and the spirits that come here, wouldn't be going through what they must.

I understand there will by humbling events of such a character that some of the spirits will become more awakened to the reality of their circumstances and thus moved to a more genuine interest in their true salvation as opposed to the me, me, me interests in their material desires. IE more spirits (who are ready or near ready in the exhaustion of their imperfections) will want to go home and end their time in this madness. While others (Illuminati for example) will play their part in arranging these events so as to further their material desires, not because their evil or whatever, but because that is their spiritual condition at the moment.

The Devil's "Job", as the embodiment of imperfection itself, is to facilitate the expression and exhaustion of imperfections. There is no real, battle of good and evil, the Supreme Being is all powerful and all merciful. The Devil, however, is desperately trying to prevent the exodus of spirits from matter, by lies, lies, lies. Leading the spirits to think this world is real (permanent) and our home and that all we are is energy in matter is just part of the many deception.

For every force there is an associated reservoir at a subtler strata of the creation. Each region has a "God", "Deity" that manages the region. Desires have "Gods" (spirits that want the job (their desire)) to facilitate those desires fully manifesting so as to be exhausted. When some one wants to be rich or a rock star or something those desires can be "granted" by the deity associated. Depending upon various factors, you have everything from a one hit wonder to a long career.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I'm 100% certain that there isn't a pretribulation rapture.

LOL! That was cute and made me smile.

The verses that stump me as to a pretribulation are II Thessalonians 2:1-3. Oops! Here we have Christians who think they missed the rapture and Paul tells them not to worry- we're not going until the Antichrist is revealed. Then the correlation between the trumpet sounds in Matthew 24:31 (a gathering of the saints after the tribulation) compared to the trumpet sound in I Corinthians 15:52 as we are raptured.

Although pretribulation Christians have explained these problems to me, these passages are what make up my 2% doubt.

Originally posted by AshleyD
The verses that stump me as to a pretribulation are II Thessalonians 2:1-3. Oops! Here we have Christians who think they missed the rapture and Paul tells them not to worry- we're not going until the Antichrist is revealed.

Exactly. I don't see how that's easily explained away or dismissed. He flat-out states that this was a prerequsite to any sort of second coming or resurrection.

That's not to say that there are no signs yet. Some things do raise eyebrows or at least hold my interest for closer examination..

[edit on 3-1-2008 by dbates]

This is fact and its logical. Research it!!!

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

[edit on 1/3/2008 by XcLuciFer]

reply to post by dbates


Thanks for linking to that post- very cool.

This is how others have explained the above confusion to me: A few verses down in II Thessalonians 2, Paul goes onto state "And now you know what is holding him (The Antichrist) back so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work [meaning the general hatred of God has existed since antediluvian times] but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [the original Greek implies a neuter and not male gender] is taken out of the way.

Some interpret this neutral gendered "it" to be the Holy Spirit and cross reference this with Ephesians 1:13-14 which talks about the Holy Spirit being sealed within church-age believers as a guarantee of salvation (something not promised to tribulation saints). So, they connect the dots and say when the Holy Spirit goes, we go. Of course, even with the neutral gender, we can only assume II Thessalonians is referring to the Holy Spirit since it is not stated explicitly.

I was also told this was not referring to the rapture but to the second coming. So I asked, why would Christians be in a panic over the Second Coming (a beautiful day for Christians)? The only thing that could make us panic is if we thought we missed the rapture. But then I was told because the saints expected to also be gathered at the Second Coming while the nonbelievers are judged. They were probably worried they were among those left to be judged.

They eventually directed me to some articles that helped explain some things:

Defending the Pre-Trip Rapture... Again
The Rapture of the Church (Scroll down past the video and pictures for the article)
Kept from the Hour

After reading all three I have to admit they made sense and it renewed my hope in a pretribulation rapture but there is still that 2% doubt.





[edit on 1/3/2008 by AshleyD]

Are we really that week that are only hope is to wait and hope for some one to save us. How pathetic is that. I geuss we deserve what we get as a species. I know you all are good people that mean well. I wish you the best of luck and for your sake I hope your right.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by XcLuciFer
Ill bet you don't even know where the word Lucifer comes form or where its mentioned in the Bible, let alone its meaning..

Why should this bother a Christian? We already feel the Koran is a false revelation and Islam is a false religion. The real question is why does the Christian Old Testament refer to plural Gods while still saying God is one? Super easy answer: The Trinity.

I didn't reply to this earlyer but I will now, thank you for making it SUPER EASY for me I never knew Christian's worship three Gods!

Originally posted by XcLuciFer
I didn't reply to this earlyer but I will now, thank you for making it SUPER EASY for me I never knew Christian's worship three Gods!

No offense but you just completely shot yourself in the foot. You're telling me you had no knowledge of the concept of the Trinity? It is alluded to all throughout the old Testament and explained fully in the New Testament in a concept known as progressive revelation.

So, you believe Christianity is false but don't even know about the very, very basic doctrine of the Trinity? Yikes! I guess it's true what they say. It's human nature to hate what we don't understand.

I really hope you are being sarcastic and will give you the benefit of the doubt that this was your intention. But again, the trinity was brought up in this previous comment not to point out the doctrine but to point out the fallacy of your argument. I'll quote:

I was saying your argument was fallacious. In other words, you are telling me Islam doctrine as if its supposed to be important to me. You might as well tell me about the tenets of Zoroastrianism as well... My point is, if you want to point out the confusion of the reference to "gods," make your point with the Bible if you are debating a Christian.

[edit on 1/3/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD


LOL Relax I understand what the holy trinity is alot better than you do, I've done my home work! I'm just tickled at just how brain washed some people are.. No matter how much proof I present to you It wont matter because you believe man has figured it out. Their are no more questions to be asked, their is no chance that you are wrong. I don't hate Christianity in its ORIGINAL teaching I think it a marvelous out take on life and how one should live. But what you are pushing here on the forum is far from the ORIGINAL teachings of Christ. ISIS RA EL have you ever looked into those three words, not that it will make a differance. Oh incase you didn't know Christianity is not the only religion with a so called holy trinity. LOL I'm sorry ill stop I'm not trying to upset you, for some stupid reason I thought I would be able to persuade people to think out side of the box. Lost cause. carry on, I will not take up any more of you time.

Just incase some people are looking for an alternative view check out these links. And research the stuff for yourself, you will be suprised!!!
video.google.com...

video.google.com...

[edit on 1/3/2008 by XcLuciFer]

Originally posted by XcLuciFer
I'm just tickled at just how brain washed some people are.. No matter how much proof I present to you It wont matter because you believe man has figured it out.

I'm confused. What proof have you provided? The claims you presented in this post concerning the pagan origin hypothesis have already been shown to be false.

ISIS RA EL

Hon, please tell me you are joking. We can sit here and make correlations and false parallels all day long between the English translations. Resort to the original Hebrew spelling of Israel and the original Egyptian spelling of Isis. They are completely dissimilar and the similarity of the words in the English translation is completely coincidental. Allow me to demonstrate how easy it is so make a connection between anything, as ridiculous as it may seem.



Zod - Z + G = God. COINCIDENCE!?!

Zod says: "Kneel before Zod!" The Bible says: "Every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord." COINCIDENCE!?!

Zod and his two companions equal three people. The trinity is composed of three beings. COINCIDENCE!?!

Zod and his companions walked on water. Jesus walked on water. COINCIDENCE!?!

Moses turned a wooden staff into a snake. Zod's female companion turned a snake into wood. COINCIDENCE!?!

Conclusion: The Bible was rewritten by men after plagiarizing the story of Zod from the movie Superman.

Of course this example is completely inane and is an example of the logic Christ Mythers use to connect the dots. It's utterly ridiculous.

Oh incase you didn't know Christianity is not the only religion with a so called holy trinity

I'm aware of this. But according to my knowledge, the concept of the Trinity precedes the late formation of the trinity in religions like Hinduism and Islam.

I thought I would be able to persuade people to think out side of the box.

I love thinking outside the box but not in the face of concrete evidence.

[edit on 1/3/2008 by AshleyD]