Scottish doc calls for kindergarten sex ed

Originally posted by NewWorldOver
Do we need to remind some of the posters in here that the proposal is to teach FIVE YEAR OLDS what sexual intercourse is?

Or are we going to keep hearing the same argument 'kids need to know sex or else they're gonna DEW EET'. That's ridiculous. A five year old has no need to know the mechanics of intercourse and I really doubt we're going to see eight year olds having sex because they weren't taught how to in school.... in fact, that's a completely illogical conclusion. Teaching kids how to have sex when they are little tiny children is probably the best way to ensure a generation of 13 year old girls who will get pregnant.

Where does the article say that they intend on teaching 5 year old the 'mechanics of intercourse' or that they will teach children 'how to have sex'? The articles says "sex education." Do you know what that means? What it is about the words 'sex education' that makes people think the text book for the class is the Kama Sutra?

The article also says the Catholic Church vowed to oppose it. Of course they would, they don't want children to know that they are being sexually abused. lol




[edit on 2-1-2008 by zerotime]

reply to post by zerotime

The articles say "sex education." Do you know what that means?

Well, that could mean a number of things. Everyone is going to have a different opinion on what it means...and what should be taught.

It doesn't say.

That is why I posed the questions....though, nobody here can really answer what their plan is. LOL

I have a 6yr old girl and i cannot imagine her coming home telling me that she had a lesson about the bird and the bees. I agree with the reply's that age 5 is much too young.

IMHO, it's the whole repressive attitude that any kind of sexual feelings or activities are exclusive to adults that causes kids to try to engage in it earlier. I'm 17, a lot of my friends are sexually active and have been for several years (unfortunately), and I think the reasoning can be reduced to "If only adults have sex, having sex will make me adult."
Having more open discussion, rather than trying to promote feelings of shame as has been my experience, might lessen kids' impressions that risking pregancy and STDs makes them more rebellious or mature.
Then again, I go to a catholic school in Canada, so our pitiful sex "education" may be different than what goes on in Scotland or the US.

reply to post by MobMentality


You are correct. However, there is no need to teach sex to a 5 year old CHILD. If parents WANT their little kids to know about sex, it should be up to THEM to teach it.

I just cant believe that any parent would want this to happen.

I would freak out if some man or woman was teaching my 5yr old daughter about sex. There is NO reason for her to know about these things now. No reason at all. She knows about bad touching and strangers....that is all she needs to know. She does NOT need to know that a boy's XX goes inside a girl's XX.

reply to post by greeneyedleo

I agree with you that it would be inappropriate to try to explicitly teach 5-year-olds the mechanics of sex, but I didn't get the impression that that was what Dr. Saunders was suggesting. He said education should be started at the age of 5, and I imagine that in the same way that 6th grade Family Life units aren't introduced with x-rated videos, kindergarteners wouldn't be starting out with specific diagrams of people getting it on or the scientific names of reproductive organs.
In any case, in all the classes I've ever been in, sex ed was an "opt-in" deal with the parents anyway. If your consent form wasn't signed, you sat in the library doing worksheets while the rest of the class got vague, awkward lectures about puberty as a "special change." Heh.

Well another thread to parade the paranoids at ATS.
Everything that happens in the world scares you.

There is absolutely no threat in telling children how they are created in a safe structured environment that is open to their questions.

Of course you people would prefer kids find out from some other kid, so they are filled with ignorance until they are finally slapped with truth.

Maybe you would prefer they learned like my childhood associates did:
A 14 year old pervert in the woods told me after showing me his parts, I spread the word from kid to kid for years,without showing my parts.

I was six when I found out, in the woods, all those other kids were under 10 and found out on the playground or in the class room.
I single handedly must have informed 60 kids with the crudest explanation possible.

Thank god the school didn't tell them, or there would be hell to pay eh?
Better a six year old spreads the good word, yessiree, only through a child's innocent question "Do you know what #### means?" and his answer can we rest easy at night knowing the children are educated..

Did I get any of my dozen girlfriends pregnant during the teenage years?
Did I get any of my dozens of girlfriends pregnant during my 20's?
Did I get a disease?
Did I grow up to be a sexual deviant?
Did I ever get arrested for perverse behavior?

NOPE!

All your fears are false and your ignorance is so thick has its own gravity.

Teach your children now, before someone else does.

reply to post by Legalizer



WRONG.

I am so far from being a person who lives in fear.

And I will be the one teaching my child(ren) about sex. Not some other man or woman. And it will be done when I feel my child is ready. And I KNOW she is not ready at 5 years old. She is still playing with barbies and making pretend cookies in her pretend kitchen!!

Just because people are against sex education in school does NOT mean they are living in fear and it doesnt mean their lips will be sealed shut on the matter w/ their kids.

It means that we believe we have the right to say what our children will and will not be being taught in schools....or what we feel is appropriate for our children.

If other parents dont mind their children being taught about sex from Mr or Mrs whomever, thats fine.

[edit on 3-1-2008 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
And I will be the one teaching my child(ren) about sex. Not some other man or woman. And it will be done when I feel my child is ready. And I KNOW she is not ready at 5 years old. She is still playing with barbies and making

WRONG
Your child will be educated by other children, or maybe Britney Spears, or television, or any source outside of your control.

Your child play's with Barbies and pretend kitchens and doesn't know how 6 billion humans made it on to planet earth.

They are soooo cute when they are completely ignorant aren't they?

Good luck with your teen pregnancy candidate.

I can completely understand greeneyedleo point of view. I can flip flop on this issue depending on what is addressed. The big point that most parents are against is government teaching their children anything moral or sexual. It falls under the fallacy that "someone else besides the parent knows what is right for the child." There is nothing more frustrating to me than corrupt and inhumane governments (Which I believe is every form of government on Earth) telling people what they should and should not do for their own good.

However, the real problem here is a word game. The words 'sex education' spins people out of their seats. You get parents yelling that no one is going to teach a 5 year old about sex. The truth is that probably every American family has already taught their 5 year old some basic sex education. By the age of 5 most parents have told their child what type of touching is appropriate and inappropriate. Children are taught that they have 'private' parts and that boys and girls are different. Most children are taught that married people have babies. This is sex education at a basic level. Sex education is more about education than sex. Like all forms of education it is about making sure that a person has enough information to make a correct decision. But put the word SEX in front of the word EDUCATION and people think of raunchy porn movies. It is something psychological that happens in the human mind when the word sex appears.

We teach children everything at an early age, except on how to deal with male/female relationships. If a parent's idea of teaching their children sex education is only explaining the method of how sex is preformed then they have failed their children. Explaining the act of sex is about 1% of sex education and that's why it can't be done in a 5 minute awkward talk. Maybe the problem is that Adults need sex education too. If I said that to an adult, I'm sure the majority of sad replies would be something like "I'm good at sex already." Yes, adults know how to procreate but do they understand the complexities of human relationships and understand what the consequences are for the choices that are made in real life situations? Knowledge empowers. The children that we fail today become the adults who fail the next generation of children. Why is it that we can get people to understand complex mathematics, but those same people can have awful relationships and get divorced 3 times. Because we teach one and not the other. Social taboos scare us too much to teach the other subject.


[edit on 3-1-2008 by zerotime]

No, no, no....and did I mention, Hell no?

C'mon, Kindergarten? Seriously? Kids aren't even old enough to comprehend sex, and he wants sex ed? That's ridiculous.... Besides, what kid doesn't learn about sex in elementary school the old fashioned way (you find your dad's porno mag, or a friend finds one, etc.)? By the time you have the 5th grade class, you pretty much know the deal...

What's next? Dora and Diego gettin' it on? Spongebob and Patrick educational vids about gay sex? Lets get a grip folks....

Here you go, an old Sex Ed book for kids thats sold millions and is being re-published

Warning, people with repressed sexuality may be offended by illustrations and conception not involving virgins, angels or storks.

Originally posted by Legalizer
Here you go, an old Sex Ed book for kids thats sold millions and is being re-published

Warning, people with repressed sexuality may be offended by illustrations and conception not involving virgins, angels or storks.

Haha that stuff actually made me laugh (from the inside).
"Vaters Glied ist groß geworden, es steht steil heraus"

Children will indeed, find out from other kids.
There will always be a moment where someone somewhere looks at his penis and go wow, etc, compare, or just look at it, and find out where babies come from.

At my school, this happened as well, when we were primary school kids (ok, we were older than 5 years old, but still).

And guess what, my mom raised me in such a way that I was allowed to do anything I want, drink alcohol, smoke, do drugs, go to whatever I want.

And guess what I did? None of these things.
Sex Ed. depending on how its taught, may be a good thing.

Just don't think because they see stuff related to sex at a young age, that everything will go wrong (I've seen sex AND porn at a young age and guess what, I've never raped or harassed any girl, and neither have I groped one.)

It's not a matter of age, it's a matter of responsibility.

EDIT:
Now I think of it.. that book seems really familiar to me.. but I can't place my finger on it.... Not something I've seen at school I think.. Maybe I've seen it on the internet before.

[edit on 3/1/08 by -0mega-]

Obviously the kids aren't going to be given the full bunnah at age 5 ... that'd be just too much information, they'll be gently introduced to the whole subject as they progress through school ... where's the harm in that ? And Scottish parents have the right to opt their kids out of such things, like most other countries, if that is their wish.

But whatever you do, don't let your kids be as ignorant as I was when I was in my early teens. I didn't get "the talk" off Dad ... neither did my mate from his either ... and until we were 15 we thought premature ejaculation was having sex below the legal age of consent (16) ... and that pubes were fallopian tubes. In fact we got a better sex ed from our illicit trade in adult magazines than anything we were told by our parents or taught in school. We were finally "put right" by the school librarian, my mate's older sister.

My Mum finally asked me if I knew the facts of life when I was 18 y/o, by which point I was already sexually active ... haha, poor Mum. Must've taken her so much courage to ask ... but way too late.

reply to post by Legalizer


What are you talking about? How do you know what my child will learn and by whom? You are making completely WRONG assumptions of me and what kind of person I am.

NOWHERE have I said I am repressed and dont intend on teaching my child. NOWHERE. I have said I will not allow some other man or woman teach my child....especially at the extremely young age of 5.

Im so far from sexually oppressed. LOL

I plan on talking to my daughter about sex. Im not one of "those" parents who is embarassed of the subject, or is afraid to talk about it w/ their kids.

I have no issues talking to her about this subject. I know my daughter better then you or anyone else. Only I know what she is ready for and what she isnt ready for. And she is NOT ready to hear about it at this time. Regardless of what YOU think

[edit on 3-1-2008 by greeneyedleo]

Before the fall of every great culture there was moral decay.

www.physorg.com...

He doesn't say 5.

He said;
"It probably needs to be started off when children start school".

And he isn't far off wrong. The amount of people who starting to become sexually active now at a younger age is shocking, and to be honest, it is in part to the internet, media and the parents.

The internet has many sites which are based around girls getting attention because of the way they look (Myspace, FaceBook, etcetera). The media is constantly showing pictures of slutty women being fancied (Paris Hilton and her underwear shot) and the fact so many parents are working longer hours, have less time for their children, etcetera.

There's a massive problem in the U.K. with under-age sex, drugs and alcohol. We can't leave it down to the parents and you can not leave it up to the Police. Thus the best option is to teach safe sex, to offer contraception to children at secondary schools and so on and so fourth.

At the end of the day, you will never remove it from society (teenagers were having babies for the last 8000+ years). But at least, we can try and lower the rate of STD's and STI's as well as unwanted babies.

Originally posted by OhZone
Before the fall of every great culture there was moral decay.

ahhh. The romantic dream that there was ever a moral time in the history of Earth. I like fiction too.

Originally posted by OhZone
Before the fall of every great culture there was moral decay.

Actually, in terms of sexual morality (which strangely seems the only kind of morality the culture war types ever talk about - interpersonal or economic ethics can go take a leap, apparently), Rome (for example) was far more sexually liberal at the height of it's power than it was in the Pauline Christian-dominated era during which it fell.

Go read The Satyricon.

[edit on 1/3/08 by xmotex]

reply to post by Beachcoma


I totally agree with the Scot doc. I mean, just tell kids the basics, and they'll learn the rest on their own -and I do not mean that they'll have sex to learn, just by what T.V. saids and things like that-. I really don't understand why people freak out about six years olds who know how adults make babies. Take me for example, I learned when I was four years old so there was no ackward moment like some of these other kids have to go through during middle-school. If you grab a medical book and show them the section where babies are made, than they'll get it. They aren't stupid or anything.