Jesus Didn't Die on the Cross?? So What??

Since the time of Jesus, his death on the cross has been hotly debated.
While I certainly understand that Jesus' death on the cross is a cornerstone to the Christian faith, there is something I simply cannot understand.
Why is it a "bad" thing if Jesus didn't die on the cross?
Let's say Jesus did indeed survive the crucifixion. All accounts of him after this time are as great and positive as the accounts of him before the crucifixion. So, where is the negative in his surviving?
If he did indeed survive, he lived on to spread his message of peace and love to many more than he would have had he actually died on the cross.
Is it really worse in the eyes of some for Jesus to have survived the crucifixion than it is for him to have died on the cross? After all, the only thing that his surviving the cross hurts is religious dogma.
If Jesus did survive the cross and lived to spread peace and love for another 50 years, I simply do not see how that can be a "bad" thing.


KONcept

Christians believe his death on the cross was necessary for spiritual redemption from sin. Without his death (according to christian beliefs) human salvation wouldn't be possible.

Originally posted by MissInformation
Christians believe his death on the cross was necessary for spiritual redemption from sin. Without his death (according to christian beliefs) human salvation wouldn't be possible.

Yep. The phrase "died for your sins" kind of needs the dying part to work.

You first have to believe or accept that you are born with sin. If you don;t then the whole thing is moot.

reply to post by drakeman


Sometimes things are the way they are whether you believe in it or not.

is it me didnt jesus come back to life or something so if he died for our sins then resorrected hem when did he dieor when did he die again and woudnt that mean him dieing for our sins is obsoleat or am i missing the point

reply to post by koncept

The idea and alleged proof at that time of his resurrection was more important to prove his abilities of immortality. Suffering death like a human also suggests his connections with humanity. We know today that cloning is possible, so the ability to transfer to another body could be next, especially if humans expect it and can pay for it. Immortality with an earthly price? Jesus supposedly spoke of those who would perform modern day miracles or illusions. This doesn't necessarily mean his were any more valid. I've witnessed some healing abilities with Star Trek like devices, so with the right tools and technology these things seem more feasable.

There are paralles with man's first sin, this being taking fruit from the tree and Jesus dying on the material of wood of a tree.

Jesus' name spelt in ancient Hebrew has two two nails and two windows in the symbol of the writting, a bit like pictorial pictures.

The sin from the woman and him being born from a woman to a man is a reversed sin in a way to say look I will make up for it via this journey.

To defeat death he has to over come it and God will only ressurect you because he has to if he can not find sin in you, since Jesus had done that.

The body is now saved by God and we just need blind faith via the spirit to help complete that and gain the Holy Spirit through him. That is my interpretation in this paragraph.

i see im statring to understand i always wondered mhy hed die for humanities sins but then get resuurected.

still when was his second death per say because i never seem to hear about it.

im really interested in the historical jesus and the early history of christianity and all.

bibleprobe.com...

The website above shows old Testament verses that predicted Jesus through out the Bible and what the Gospels have fullfiled. Historical Jesus is also a prophecy and was known as a messiah waiting to come save the people. But the Jews had a chance to save them selves but the gentiles - mankind was forfeited which in a way was the better plan overall.

What are you even talking about?

Jesus never existed. The bible was proven to be a hoax.

Originally posted by benign.psychosis
What are you even talking about?

Jesus never existed. The bible was proven to be a hoax.

Is this opinion, or do you have references to illustrate this hoax? If you have documentation and proof of this being a hoax, please share it with all of us, if not, please be clear when expressing your opinion. Thanks

Originally posted by benign.psychosis
What are you even talking about?

Jesus never existed. The bible was proven to be a hoax.

This seems to be your opinion. Please don't make such strong statements if you don't have the facts to prove it.

And for the heck of it, do you think it's a coincidence that God said before he returns there will be rumors of wars and devastating weather? He also said there will be a one world government. Aren't we in the stages of that becoming reality in the next few years?

As for where I get my information from
The Holy Bible (Word of God)
Revelation www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=1&version=31
www.abovetopsecret.com
Any Politic website

[edit on 1-1-2008 by Yessy]

Oy vey. All the english teachers in the world are beating their breasts and nashing their teeth. Jesus dying on the cross is a spritiual thing. You either believe it or don't. Far be it for anyone to force it down anyone's craw.

koncept

The reason Jesus needed to die was to fulfill the need for atonement for sin.

In the Old Testament, atonement was made by sacrificing animals and burning them on an altar. This was put in place by God after the original sin in the garden of Eden. So each man was to offer a sacrifice to appease God.

Jesus became the final sacrifice for sin when Pilate, spurred by the Jews, sentenced him to death.

The only way this could be the final, ultimate sacrifice was if Jesus was pure, without sin. The only way for that to happen was if God himself stepped into human form because, according to the Bible, everyone is sinful.

Now if Jesus didn't die on that cross then he wouldn't have been a "sacrifice" and there would have been no atonement and his whole life and ministry would have been a waste of time.

Does that answer your question?

Originally posted by spyder207

Originally posted by benign.psychosis
What are you even talking about?

Jesus never existed. The bible was proven to be a hoax.

Is this opinion, or do you have references to illustrate this hoax? If you have documentation and proof of this being a hoax, please share it with all of us, if not, please be clear when expressing your opinion. Thanks

Sure, I can refer you to science and reality.

Dying and coming back to life, walking on water, people living for hundreds of years, a huge ark, emaculate conception of a human, the age of the earth, a world made completely of water, its creation in 7 days, hell, heaven...

If the story was going to work, Jesus had to be a martyr. People would not feel guilty over his death had he not died so unjustly, so that someone as unworthy as themselves could be redeemed.

It's nothing more than guilt and how the church plays on that guilt to make you give them money.

Jesus was the son of God who died a horrible death so that you will feel compelled to send Jimmy Swagert, The Pope, or Oral Roberts 10% of your paycheck.

Had Jesus not been a martyr, no one would have cared about what he had to say.

reply to post by holyTerror


Which is along the exact lines of what I was saying. The ONLY thing that suffers from Jesus not dying on the cross is religious dogma.

Is he any less special if he lived? I think not.

KONcept

The story of Jesus reveals a paradigm shift in reason - that the old Jewish dogma was just that, dogma.

How ironic that a new dogma was created around a man who rejected the very idea.

reply to post by benign.psychosis


I would think it's more typical human behavior than irony. We are a very selfish animal. Almost everything we do or believe we do to benefit ourselves first and foremost.

KON