reply to post by rockets red glare
“Fascists,” “Brown shirts,” “jack booted storm troopers”… conservatives are all too frequently tarred with such insulting labels. It’s
a way to cast conservative views as being somehow “beyond the political pale.” Not only are the slurs unfair, they are historically misplaced as
well. fascists hail from the left.
The National Socialist Workers Party was founded in 1920 by a man whose name escapes me. In 1922, A. Hitler and associates managed to take over the
unsuccessful party. The main reason behind the takeover was to avoid the German election laws applicable to newly formed parties. The laws required
the founders of a party to file papers. The associates of Hitler did not want to be known publicly. By paying the debts of the moribund party,
Hitler acquired a vehicle for his own pathological politics. I don’t know when the acronym NAZI was first used.
Germany was not a socialist state. The Government did not confiscate heavy industry as it did in the USSR or later in China. But all too many people
confuse “socialism” with “communism” both of which are objects of a constant stream of invective and scorn from the Right. Greedy people live
in fear America might go socialist when enough people get tired of them.
Socialism as we have it in America began in 1869 under Count von Bismark in Prussia. He was first to introduce old age pensions (part of our social
security) and first to introduce workers compensation for on the job injuries and first to introduce universal access to health care. Interestingly
enough, Theodore Roosevelt attempted to do the same in the US during his presidency but he did not succeed as we all must surely know. See similar
remark in The Walking Fox below.
An international movement, fascism took on different forms in different countries, reflecting the vagaries of national culture and
temperament. Hitler's Nazis were ardent socialists. They believed in free health care and guaranteed jobs. They confiscated inherited wealth and
spent vast sums on public education. They purged the church from public policy, supported abortion and gun control, and inserted the authority of the
state into every nook and cranny of daily life. While fascism in Germany found its ultimate expression as genocidal, racist nationalism, in America,
it assumed a “friendlier” form. Many fascist tenets were espoused by American progressives like John Dewey and Woodrow Wilson, and FDR
incorporated many of the movement’s policies in the New Deal. If this observation sounds strange to modern ears, it’s only because most Americans
have forgotten the policies and principles that truly define fascism.
I do not believe much if anything recited above is factual. It sounds like a polemic from Ann Coulter. If you believe it, fine. Oh, perhaps you can
tell me how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
Mr Xpert11 posted this remark
Well one can safely assume that anybody that subscribes to his/her logic has not read a history book. Hitler and Stalin rest on the extreme opposite
of the political spectrum. To start with Hitler was a right winger who hated Socialists and trade unionists as much as he did communists. Under Albert
Speer and others the use of private sector and slave labor drove the German war economy.
It has been alleged that large German manufacturers like Krupp, BMW and Messerschmidt financed Hitler. That line of inquiry after World War 2 was not
followed up. John J. McCloy was our High Commissioner in Germany. Hmm? We do know Albert Speer - an architect gone awry - was sentenced to only 10
years for his low visibility but crucial role played in Germany's war effort.
On his release from prison, Speer wrote a self-serving book that was a best seller and died a rich man. In part the hesitancy to connect Hitler to the
corporations was the simple fact that General Motors owned Opel which made cars and trucks for Germany. Henry Ford owned Ford of Germany which made
cars and trucks for Germany. (As also in Russia). Curtis-Wright had a subsidiary in Germany that made aircraft parts and engines. IBM had a German
subsidiary that prepared a punch-card (state of the art then) data base for the Nazis showing where every Jew in Germany lived and banked.
Until Hitler’s rise to near total power in 1933 - partly by serendipity - Germany was highly regarded for its leadership in the intellectual world,
in the arts and sciences and for the high quality of its manufactured goods.
I said serendipity because Germany had a parliamentary system of governance in 1932. The very old war hero Field Marshal von Hindenberg was the
president or head of state of Germany. Hitler had managed to become the prime minister (chancellor) or head of government. Shortly after Hitler was
named Chancellor, von Hindenberg died. Serendipity.
The German economy had been destroyed under the post-war reparations forced on the fledgling Weimar Republic. Every person in Germany had lost his or
her savings of a lifetime in hyper-inflation of the currency. Unemployment exceeded 40%. The national currency was worthless. People were reduced to
barter with precious metals - those who had such - or anything of value for food. Desperation ruled.
On von Hindenberg’s death, Hitler persuaded (forced?) the Reichstag - parliament - to COMBINE the head of state with the head of government and to
denominate the new office as “Fuhrer.” You know the rest.
Posting BS from a right wing American websites will not change historical fact. If you want sources to back up my assertions don't bother
looking on Wikipedia instead spend a couple days at a library reading the relevant books.
In the last 2 elections I noticed a lot of such propaganda on many boards. The ATS tried to limit it. That’s hard to do. It seems though that almost
all of such stuff comes from the Right Wing of America; I labeled them as "Board Distractors" because they contribute nothing. Obfuscation. Heat not
light.
The Walking Fox posted this
You seem to be unaware of what the definition of fascism is. Your entire argument looks like this: "I hate liberals. I also hate Nazis. Therefore
liberals are Nazis." Nazis were about as far from socialist as Kim Jong Il is from being a democratically elected leader. You could have learned this
by opening a book. One by actual historians or even contemporary writers . . socialist policies, such as instituted under both Roosevelt presidencies
in the United States.
This may be the opening shot in a year-long campaign of dis-information, half-truths and outright fabrication sponsored by the Right Wing.
By the bye, we know the Nazi Government paid the privately owned railroads one pfennig per kilometer per person for hauling Jews to the death camps.
We have the body count and the billings. That is how we “know” how many were murdered. The Nazi Government kept accurate records.
To me the Germany of 1933-1945 was an anomaly. Or, it begs for an answer to the question , “How can good people do bad things?” And it reminds of
the adage, “There but for the Grace of God go I.”
[edit on 1/3/2008 by donwhite]
