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reply posted on 31-12-2007 @ 05:59 PM by deezee
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
that would be a sock puppet - pretending to be another person and posting co-oberating " evidence " to support a claim
It's especially funny, when such people insult their other persona, or call it a sick person, like JLW did with Gridkeeper when talking to Jose.
They think it makes their act more convincing, if they're not nice to themselves all the time... 
On the other hand, it tells a lot about the person in question..
[edit on 31-12-2007 by deezee]
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reply posted on 31-12-2007 @ 06:39 PM by Navieko
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Originally posted by evanmontegarde
Here's ITF's problem in a nutshell:
And here's your (and ITF's) problem in a 'nutshell':
Complete and 'obvious' disregard for the fact that people are allowed to believe in whatever they want to. That just because no evidence is able to
be presented it doesn't mean it's a hoax. That what you may see as nothing, others see as evidence. You've seem to come to the conclusion that if
you're unable make sense of something, noone else can either -- and that if they claim to do so... they must be "kooks, "liars", "fools",
"gullible" etc. To me it looks as if you're jealous of all the attention that some get here, backed by the fact that you're unable to come to
terms with the reality in that you simply dont know everything. Frustrated, naive, narrow minded people is what comes to my mind.
Happy new year! 
Regarding the thread topic -- I always believed the whole thing was extremely suspect and I've questioned Gridkeeper on the subject a few times
before...only to be dissapointed. Not suprised the slightest bit.
[edit on 31/12/07 by Navieko]
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reply posted on 31-12-2007 @ 06:45 PM by free_spirit
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Originally posted by stikkinikki
Maybe Abby Parker was a psuedonym? I have't seen evidence that JLW and Abby are not the same person or are not connected or that he wasn't just
connecting the dots. The vociferousness of the attacks against JLW are noted with intrest by this writer.
On the contrary stikkinikki, I asure you that John Lenard and Abby
Parker are completely different persons, I'm assuring this because I know
both of them very well since a long time. I have photos of both of them
and their locations.
Lenard Walson lives in West Sussex, UK near Chichester under his real
name and is married to a sick woman. Abby Parker who used the Bambi
pseudonym the first months lives in Bedhampton Havant UK, a beautiful
blonde lady, professional musician and mother of a boy.
Lenard always admired Abby Parker's experiences specially those videos
of the ufo above the lamp, the big orb and the twin ufos at daytime. Lenard
used these videos in his posts several times without authorization and
claimed they were recorded by him wich I knew it was a lie. I saw this
coming and asked him not to do that but he ignored my request.
The "vociferousness" you mentioned is nonexistent. It's a denouncement
of a fraud and copyright infringement recently published in a known
website and I'm providing the irrefutable evidences in links and research
works. Lenard Walson is plagiarizing Abby Parker's videos, check the
evidences again.
In addition to the links I provided proving Abby Parker is real I would
like to provide these links I found to show who Abby Parker is and her
experiences. Two videos from a conference. You can see Abby's photo
in the first video.
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
This link to a 2002 rense page with a report and images from Abby Parker
including some discussions among the researchers involved in her case.
Take note of the June 9, 2002 Twin Ufos video frame, the same one
Lenard Walson is now using claiming he recorded this video.
www.rense.com...
A link to a webpage with a subsequent report about Abby Parker's
sightings.
www.artgomperz.com...
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reply posted on 31-12-2007 @ 06:52 PM by deezee
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Originally posted by Navieko
Complete and 'obvious' disregard for the fact that people are allowed to believe in whatever they want to.
Of course they are allowed. Nobody denies that.
It's just that believing stuff, doesn't make you actually know anything.
Some people come here wanting to find more beliefs, while others really want to KNOW, instead of just believing.
And for those, it is very important to know what is real and what is a hoax, and have everything logically analyzed.
UFOlogy is supposed to be "The science of UFOs", not a belief system! It comes from the Greek word "logos", and means KNOWLEDGE.
"New agers" have turned all this into a pot of randomly mixed mutually exclusive and often even self conflicting beliefs and it makes many people,
who might otherwise be interested, simply turn around.
It's funny, how people, who believe so hard, that they are unable to even consider a different explanation, call everyone who thinks logically,
narrow minded, while in fact, just the opposite is true.
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reply posted on 31-12-2007 @ 07:24 PM by free_spirit
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Originally posted by deezee
reply to post by free_spirit
What i would like to know, free spirit, is how come you know so much about him? From what i read on other threads, it appears you know him
personally.
Can you shed some light on his mental state, perhaps?
Thanks and good work!
Yes deezee, I know John Lenard very well since a long time. As I
mentioned before his real name is not John Lenard Walson. This person
is extremely afraid to reveal his name and whereabouts and I can say
that his mental state has been dramativally changing for the past two
years to a level that I found myself disconcerted. Talking to Lenard
Walson was like talking with several persons at the same time using
nicknames under the most bizarre circumstances. That's why I said
this person was experimenting different mutations in weird fashions.
Some false names used by Lenard Walson in his different mutations
are: Sarimo, jay starvase, mark ryan, fallslock, jay spencer, jake
warner, etc. Recetly Lenard adopted these: santamonicajohn (inspired
in british researcher and friend of mine Ed Sherwood who lives in Sta.
Monica CA) and garzagarcia. John Lenard always argued he was on the
run changing names fearing the british military were after him as well as
the M15 etc. None of these was proved. Then he began stalking some
celebrities in the UK and getting involved with the police wich I considered
dangerous.
The name John Lenard Walson was adopted in order to post images at the
space com website. This name still remains but now he has two
personalities at the same time: John Lenard and Michio Kaku. Both are
independently active in his mind and I suspect he has a third one by now:
Abby Parker.
My conclusion. Regrettable to say but the man is mentally disturbed.
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reply posted on 31-12-2007 @ 08:01 PM by waterguy
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You know, its kind of funny. I am a relatively new person to this site. I joined because I choose to look at the evidence that supports(or debunks)
different points of view and theories. Having an open mind, but also being willing to know that some people will advance hoaxes, should not be a
reason for anyone to disparage any one else. But the truth I have found here, is that every thread ends up with someone else being shelled over an
idea, or thought that someone else thinks is stupid. What should be a site to explore and examine, is instead an Oprah Winfrey site, or a Peyton
Place site, or what have you.
People need stick together, even if their opinions differ, or this site and the people who choose to belong, will never be taken seriously.
Lighten up and live and let live.
Happy New Year.
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reply posted on 31-12-2007 @ 08:03 PM by deezee
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Originally posted by free_spirit
My conclusion. Regrettable to say but the man is mentally disturbed.
I've had to deal with mentally disturbed people in the past and it's interesting, that no matter what their delusions are about, they all act almost
the same way. Once you've seen a couple, you've seen them all.
A good example of JLWs mania is how he plasters his videos with three copyright notices at the same time and the way he writes his "conclusions"
into the videos sometimes.
It's just manic blurting out of random thoughts, which he actually thinks mean something.
What i also find interesting is his spelling. "They are hear", for example. Where the hell does that come from? Wasn't he as the Gridkeeper able to
write normaly?
Or could this be on purpose, to make this personality more separate and different from himself, and therefore maybe more real?
The human mind is a very fascinating thing. Unless you get lost in it.
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reply posted on 31-12-2007 @ 08:17 PM by deezee
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Originally posted by waterguy
People need stick together, even if their opinions differ, or this site and the people who choose to belong, will never be taken seriously.
Unfortunatelly this is impossible, since the believers allways feel hurt, when the facts oppose their beliefs, or when someone asks for a REASON to
believe.
If the believers would say "i believe...." instead of claiming to know the truth, all this would be much different. But they use claims to support
their beliefs, and when all of these claims are prooven wrong, they say it's a gut feeling.
The thing is, this gut feeling would never be there in the first place, if it wasn't for the fake evidence. Still, they continue to believe, which is
fine, if they want to.. But for those who ACTUALLY seek the truth, it is extremely important to hear the logical side of the argument.
I dare say, that all of us, who are called skeptics, are not really skeptics, but are instead willing to follow logic and facts, wherever they might
lead, even if they should lead to proof of any of those beliefs. Still, we are often called narrow minded by the believers.
But i ask myself... Who is trully narrow minded? The people who use rationall thought, or the believers, who don't even want to consider a different
explanation than what they want to believe?
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reply posted on 31-12-2007 @ 08:32 PM by Arcturian Kontakt
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reply posted on 31-12-2007 @ 08:49 PM by evanmontegarde
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Originally posted by Navieko
Originally posted by evanmontegarde
Here's ITF's problem in a nutshell:
And here's your (and ITF's) problem in a 'nutshell':
Complete and 'obvious' disregard for the fact that people are allowed to believe in whatever they want to. That just because no evidence is able to
be presented it doesn't mean it's a hoax. That what you may see as nothing, others see as evidence. You've seem to come to the conclusion that if
you're unable make sense of something, noone else can either -- and that if they claim to do so... they must be "kooks, "liars", "fools",
"gullible" etc. To me it looks as if you're jealous of all the attention that some get here, backed by the fact that you're unable to come to
terms with the reality in that you simply dont know everything. Frustrated, naive, narrow minded people is what comes to my mind.
Happy new year!
Regarding the thread topic -- I always believed the whole thing was extremely suspect and I've questioned Gridkeeper on the subject a few times
before...only to be dissapointed. Not suprised the slightest bit.
[edit on 31/12/07 by Navieko]
Why do you make stupid and false accusations like this? If I was really desperate enough to be jealous of attention over an internet forum, well I'd
probably take the means to get it! I can make up fake stories in 10 minutes too :-)
When did anyone ever say people aren't allowed to believe in what they want? No problem there. But when those people expect ME to believe what they
do - without providing any reasons why - there is a problem.
I'm quite open to new ideas. I'm quite open to the possibility of alien life or whatever topic this website may be discussing at times. I guess
you don't realize that people like John Lenard Walson are IMPEDING serious research by purposefully hoaxing. ATS has a rule against hoaxing for a
reason!
I request that you U2U me any further insults or false characterizations you have against me and keep the forum clear, please.
On topic: This should provide a wake up call for this forum. People DO try to hoax, the UFO "research" community is not one big happy family.
Walson just happened to be caught a little sooner than some.
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reply posted on 31-12-2007 @ 10:24 PM by deezee
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Originally posted by evanmontegarde
I can make up fake stories in 10 minutes too :-)
And i bet they would be even better stories, then what we're used to around here..  Simply because you would most likely make it at least
logical.
Originally posted by evanmontegarde
When did anyone ever say people aren't allowed to believe in what they want? No problem there. But when those people expect ME to believe what they
do - without providing any reasons why - there is a problem.
Exactly! The believers don't say that they believe, instead they say it's a prooven fact, and then they offer "evidence" which has been proven
wrong at least 10 times. They pretend it's all real, and long since prooven, with many confirmations, while it is in fact their basic premise, that
is wrong. So how do confirmations even matter? (i was thinking about planet X here)
Originally posted by evanmontegarde
I'm quite open to new ideas. I'm quite open to the possibility of alien life or whatever topic this website may be discussing at times.
To the believers, we will always be ignorant and narrow minded. They simply can't understand that believing something so completelly, IS NOT open
mindedness. In fact, it is the worst kind of ignorance, there is!
Open mindedness means considering ALL of the possibilities, and not just the one you like!
Originally posted by evanmontegarde
I guess you don't realize that people like John Lenard Walson are IMPEDING serious research by purposefully hoaxing. ATS has a rule against hoaxing
for a reason!
Exactly! That's what i've been trying to say all the time.
If we are to find any real truth on anything, we have to focus on real evidence. Hoaxes and delusionall people not only make it harder to even decide
which evidence should be considered, they make the entire field of research look like nothing more than a product of a delusionall mind at worst, and
a hoax at best.
How is this helpfull?
Believers don't care.. But they believe already. Why not let us look at the facts and come to our own (logical) conclusions, without calling us
ignorant?
It's as if they want us all to dumb down, and start believing for nothing.
Just one question to you believers: If you really KNOW the truth, why do you get so offended, when someone points out a flaw in your "theory"?
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reply posted on 31-12-2007 @ 10:35 PM by DogHead
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Originally posted by evanmontegarde
Here's ITF's problem in a nutshell:
Complete and obvious hoaxes like sleeper or F.A.S.T. gets all the attention here at ATS, because it's more interesting and fantastical than anything
else. People ignore the fact (couldn't help myself) that zero real evidence of any kind is provided; ironically the ones who mention that are the
ones called blind sheep.
At the same time, serious UFO cases are ignored on the large part because they're just not as interesting. How can anyone call themselves a serious
UFO researcher when this happens? There are exceptions of course - the recent thread about Bob White's object and "Team ATS at Roswell" come to
mind - but on the whole this entire forum is full of shenanigans and trickery.
[mod edit - circumventing "naughty word" censors]
[edit on 31-12-2007 by Byrd]
Word. Shiny things attract some people like a D-student to polystyrene glue. Of course in the internet democracy of ATS equal time is offered to all
threads, and some serious research threads are stuffier or contain much more fibre than the pathetic hoaxes... Health food versus junk food...
This thread is important since it alerts people to an alleged offence. A lot of the UFO threads are just sort of... lame... filled with cheap faith
and cheaper skepticism. Oh well.
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reply posted on 31-12-2007 @ 11:48 PM by stikkinikki
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Originally posted by free_spirit
Originally posted by stikkinikki
Maybe Abby Parker was a psuedonym? I have't seen evidence that JLW and Abby are not the same person or are not connected or that he wasn't just
connecting the dots. The vociferousness of the attacks against JLW are noted with intrest by this writer.
On the contrary stikkinikki, I asure you that John Lenard and Abby
Parker are completely different persons, I'm assuring this because I know
both of them very well since a long time. I have photos of both of them
and their locations.
Lenard Walson lives in West Sussex, UK near Chichester under his real
name and is married to a sick woman. Abby Parker who used the Bambi
pseudonym the first months lives in Bedhampton Havant UK, a beautiful
blonde lady, professional musician and mother of a boy.
Lenard always admired Abby Parker's experiences specially those videos
of the ufo above the lamp, the big orb and the twin ufos at daytime. Lenard
used these videos in his posts several times without authorization and
claimed they were recorded by him wich I knew it was a lie. I saw this
coming and asked him not to do that but he ignored my request.
The "vociferousness" you mentioned is nonexistent. It's a denouncement
of a fraud and copyright infringement recently published in a known
website and I'm providing the irrefutable evidences in links and research
works. Lenard Walson is plagiarizing Abby Parker's videos, check the
evidences again.
In addition to the links I provided proving Abby Parker is real I would
like to provide these links I found to show who Abby Parker is and her
experiences. Two videos from a conference. You can see Abby's photo
in the first video.
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
This link to a 2002 rense page with a report and images from Abby Parker
including some discussions among the researchers involved in her case.
Take note of the June 9, 2002 Twin Ufos video frame, the same one
Lenard Walson is now using claiming he recorded this video.
www.rense.com...
A link to a webpage with a subsequent report about Abby Parker's
sightings.
www.artgomperz.com...
Well thanks for your detailed response free spirit. I just started watching his films a month or so ago and I had no idea about any past history he
had. Then people started arguing about some photos when all I'm interested is are the interstellar space videos real? I just am curious about how
the the videos were made and if they are just snoop shots of terrestrial satellites.
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reply posted on 1-1-2008 @ 02:29 AM by Navieko
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Originally posted by evanmontegarde
Why do you make stupid and false accusations like this? If I was really desperate enough to be jealous of attention over an internet forum, well I'd
probably take the means to get it! I can make up fake stories in 10 minutes too :-)
Firstly I must apologize. Most the stuff I had written was directed mainly at ITF -- I've known him for awhile now on ATS, and so I know what he's
like. Since you made a post defending him on this matter (in particular), I subconsiously/mistakenly had the idea that you endorsed the same views in
general. Now let me clarify some of the meaning behind my original post.
When did anyone ever say people aren't allowed to believe in what they want? No problem there. But when those people expect ME to believe
what they do - without providing any reasons why - there is a problem.
What I was reffering to is the type of people that attack and make demands on people such as Sleeper and John Lear. Neither of them expect any of you
to believe a thing they say.... they're here to share their story/finds with people that are interested, and those that may want to contribute. Often
times they are attacked for not providing "sufficient" evidence to support their claims. My point is that it's up to the individual to decide in
such trivial circumstances, what they think is sufficient enough evidence or not. I often see ITF constantly hassling Mr. Lear on his forum about the
same old stuff. My request is that he and others like him come to terms with the fact that it's only their own opinion that determines that the
evidence is bunk, just as it is Mr. Lear's opinion that his claims are truth. They can both be wrong. Neither can prove definately that they
are right -- therefore, the T&C of this site allows for Mr. Lear to continue on... and it's up to the skeptics to be the 'bigger person', and leave
it alone. Until they come up with something new, stop derailing threads with the same old crap. It's a similar case with Sleeper... just because he
has no solid evidence to back up his story, doesn't make it a hoax. It just means that it's left up to the reader to form their own opinion -- and
that's all I'm trying to defend.
I'm quite open to new ideas. I'm quite open to the possibility of alien life or whatever topic this website may be discussing at times. I
guess you don't realize that people like John Lenard Walson are IMPEDING serious research by purposefully hoaxing. ATS has a rule against hoaxing
for a reason!
As I pointed out in the bottom of my original post, I also concur that this whole 'John Lenard Walson' ordeal is a hoax. I strongly agree that this
sort of stuff does great harm to those that genuinely wish to find and reveal the truth, in this subject. But I disagree with people generalizing
people such as Mr. Lear and Sleeper, with the sort of people like John Lenard -- who are easily exposed and not just a subject of opinion in regards
to evidence.
Perhaps I was wrong to use this thread, and your post to make my point about something not directly related to the OP -- but I saw many people doing
the same in reverse. They use this thread to illegitimately attack people that simply should not be attacked, under the context of this thread. Once
again I apologize for my mistake, and any ill feelings caused as a result.
[edit on 1/1/08 by Navieko]
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reply posted on 1-1-2008 @ 03:29 AM by Sorscoder
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Here is a link that I think some may find supplementary to the lamp footage that is in question, Lamp
Post Video
[edit on 1/1/2008 by Sorscoder]
[edit on 1/1/2008 by Sorscoder]
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reply posted on 1-1-2008 @ 07:00 AM by Ghaele
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What made it obvious to me that it is a hoax is the picture below by this John Lenard Walson guy;
I remember this human-like skeleton shaped thing from a sci-fi movie, but I've seen them all and I can't remember wich one. It's either in space or
underwater.
If anyone here can remember wich movie it is from I'd like to know.
Also several of the other pictures look like the klingon birds of prey only without wings.
[edit on 1-1-2008 by Ghaele]
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reply posted on 1-1-2008 @ 10:42 AM by racquemis
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I don't want to offend anyone but i just want to express by opinion about this matter if i may
First of all i would like to say that sometimes i'm amazed how eagerly some people at ATS want to debunk everything.
I would like ask some questions, first of all what was F.A.S.T. all about? to my understanding it is to expose the truth as john lenard believes, if
he believes that the orb video is something to be seen by everyone, what stops him to edit it into his videos. he didn't claim he shot the footage.
yet you people speculate that he pirated and call it a hoax
I always believed in begin open minded, yet i see almost nothing of that back within this matter
2nd question, how can you guys be certain that john lenard impersonates people? people use nicknames of famous people all the time, you can't be
certain that john lenard impersonated michio kaku,for all i know it could just be a teenager that has an interest in F.A.S.T. and copy pasted text
from john lenard
some of you said that some craft 'shot' by john lenard look like other things from movies. that doesn't proof it is a hoax
I for myself have seen clouds looking like a rough shape of the starship enterprise, but we all know that those two things are not related to
eachother whatsoever. couldn't the same thing apply to this matter.
If you dig deep enough you will always find an image a shape or something else that looks the same as what you are observing
And how about the face on mars, it looks like a face, it has the characteristics of a face, but if i look close enough it is not
People see things that aren't actually there, couldn't the same apply for the F.A.S.T footage?
For all i know this is a hoax, but you cant call it a hoax based on speculation. what if we debunk it and it turns out to be true? then we can blame
ourselfs for covering it up
There is a risk that we debunk stories,footage and images that are actually real. I feel that if we keep debunking based on speculations we may never
get out the truth many seek
therefore I ask you people to please threat john lenard with respect, there are no hardfacts that this is a hoax, and no hardfacts that what he is
claiming is true. can't we just be gentle with him until this changes?
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reply posted on 1-1-2008 @ 01:48 PM by free_spirit
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Originally posted by racquemis
I don't want to offend anyone but i just want to express by opinion about this matter if i may
First of all i would like to say that sometimes i'm amazed how eagerly some people at ATS want to debunk everything.
I would like ask some questions, first of all what was F.A.S.T. all about? to my understanding it is to expose the truth as john lenard believes, if
he believes that the orb video is something to be seen by everyone, what stops him to edit it into his videos. he didn't claim he shot the footage.
yet you people speculate that he pirated and call it a hoax
I always believed in begin open minded, yet i see almost nothing of that back within this matter
I'm almost certain you are gridkeeper again that found a way to subscribe
again to ATS and now under a new nickname. You just subscribed today
and started replying almost in the same tone used by the gridkeeper. This
is very suspicious and may represent the undesired return of gridkeeper
now with new disguise. Am I right ? Or perhaps you are John Lenard W.
himself. I almost recognized your vocabulary, style and tone.
Maybe the administrators may check your IP address to see if it's located
in the UK in wich case will indicate if it's the same as gridkeeper. However
as I know you very well you may be using a public computer as you used
to all the time in wich case will still come from the UK.
If the moderators establish you are not the gridkeeper from the UK then
I will be the first to apologize. In the meanwhile I would like to warn the
members of a posible new trick from gridkeeper / John Lenard Walson
now as racquemis.
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reply posted on 1-1-2008 @ 02:20 PM by Nohup
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Originally posted by waterguy
People need stick together, even if their opinions differ, or this site and the people who choose to belong, will never be taken seriously.
I think for the most part, everyone who posts here, no matter what the claim, is originally given the benefit of the doubt. If somebody wants to make
a claim, for example, that they are regularly photographing "alien" ships in the night skies overhead, most folks here are willing to give the
evidence a look and see what the deal is.
But this doesn't mean that somebody can show up with a half-assed notion and some blurry photos, obscure simple details that would help back up their
claim, or possibly assume multiple identities to pretend to support their own position, without us calling them on it. From our perspective, that
goes way beyond being supportive and having an open mind to just being gullible.
I'm personally of the opinion that if you pop up here with a claim, you should expect to have the harshest light thrown on it possible. You should
be challenged at every step to produce evidence that backs up your claim. This is not a court of law, where you're presumed innocent from the start.
In this forum, because of past history, you're a liar and a hoaxer until proven otherwise. The process is akin to refining any kind of metal. You
need to put it through a lot of heat to get the best results.
If you notice, the people who are not called liars and hoaxers are those who make cautious, reasonable claims. If you honestly see and photograph a
UFO, and we look at the images and we can't figure out what it is, we'll offer some suggestions as to what it might be, but if it's unidentifiable
because there's not enough information about it, we can accept that. But if somebody starts making a lot of claims they can't back up, then into
the furnace they go. And rightly so.
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reply posted on 1-1-2008 @ 03:10 PM by racquemis
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reply to post by free_spirit
I'm offended that you think i'm gridkeeper, be my quest do a IP-lookup, Do a country lookup and you will see i'm not from the UK
just because i have a different opinion and think differently doesn't mean i'm gridkeeper. it may seemed that i was backing up gridkeeper, but that
is no reason to assume i'm from the UK or gridkeeper.
And even if i was from the UK, would you ban me because i potentially could be gridkeeper? that absurd
I was not backing up gridkeeper, I still want proof just as you do, indeed the footage is fuzzy, i still doubt about it myself
I understand you don't want to waste time on something that could be a hoax, the sooner it's revealed the better.
As i understand the whole F.A.S.T thing is still continueing, there is more to come, maybe things will get clearer for us then. I'm not going to call
someone a hoaxer prematurely. i just keep following the story, until it's clear for me if it is a hoax or not
I am not a guy that follows opinions/proof of others , i make up my own mind i do my own research when necesarry, and currently my mind is not
convinced this is a hoax
This is my opinion and i hope that you can respect that
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