creationism, where is the evidence???!!! i see none

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Most of that stuff is just an attempt at character assasination. No real refutation for those who don't accept the 'official' story of Creation.
It boils down to what you put your faith in.

[edit on 7-4-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by Clearskies


it points out the many, many places where kent hovind displays ignorance of scientific fact and misrepresents information.

i don't see how that's character assassination.

example:

they take a quote from hovind or one of his videos:

"According to the Big Bang the universe was started by a cosmic explosion somewhere [sic] between 10 and 20 billion years ago, which hurled matter in all directions." [1]

-Kent Hovind


and then they point out how it's wrong:

Within one sentence two important misrepresentations are made. First, the Big Bang is not claimed to be an explosion like a grenade, rather an expansion like a cake in the oven. It is claimed that space/time itself expanded in all directions. Second, the Big Bang model does not propose matter existed at the very beginning of the universe. In conclusion, according to the Big Bang model, the universe did not explode and there were no pieces of matter flying around like shrapnel.[4]

that is called exposing fraud

[edit on 4/7/08 by madnessinmysoul]

Here, now, I will do my best impression of an evolutionist:

Me: So, tell me your belief.

Evo: Ok, here goes you foolish believing in A God without any evidence person dude. I believe the universe started with a big bang. Evidence shows that the universe is spreading. Galaxies are moving away from each other. This means everything must have been packed together at the start then a wonderful event took place that sent everything in all directions, and this has been happening for billions of years. Life formed, then the process of evolution took over. We don't know how life started in the universe, nor do we know where everything that is in the universe originated from. We're still working on solving that mystery. We have theories for something, and others we just don't know.

Me: I see, so, essentially you are saying that the universe as we know it had a beginning, you "just don't know" what was before the big bang, you "just don't know" where all of the atoms came from that forms everything in the universe, and you "just don't know" how life can form from the non living. Finally, you believe the theory of evolution is correct, where a seemingly simple form of life one day decided that it was morphing time power ranger style and after billions of years here we are today where amazingly enough just one species out of countless on the earth is intelligent beings while the other millions decided they were bored with morphing time and to not go the distance. Am I correct?

Evo: Exactly! That's the beauty of evolution. We were selected, by um an unintelligent evolution process, or pure chance in other words, to form into humans. You and I could easily be reptiles at the moment had evolution gone that path instead.

Me: I see. So it is logic to you then that everything we see around us including the universe didn't require a creator, and you just don't know what there was before the big bang or the universe in general. You don't know where all of those rocks and gases came from. Yet, a creator is not logical, even though one is required for anything to come into existance because stuff can't just show up out of thin air to start forming the universe, because you cannot see him. You can't see what ungodly event created the universe, nor can you see God. Tell me, why is it you chose to believe in the ungodly event over a godly creation.

Evo: Uhhhh.... because if there was a God, he would show himself to all of us. Since he does not, he must not be there. Therefore there is no God.

Me: Yet, you believe that the universe essentially poofed into existance. Quite the miracle that needed no help whatsoever.

Evo: I know! Amazing isn't it.

Me: Yes, yes it is. Essentially it sounds like you believe in something without visual proof as much as I, even though I believe that I see the miracles of life and the universe, are visual proof of a creator. I'll give you the last word.

Evo: Whatever you nutcase! lol. Until God reveals himself to the world I will believe he doesn't exist. It's possible for atoms to form out of thin ai...space. Mark my words, we will prove it! For right now, we just don't know. bwahahaahahaaaahahahaaaa.

I can't even believe there are people still defending creationism as a science. Science is constantly changing and adapting to newly found information all the time. Science text book in one decade will most likely be different in the next. A resource for an essay from he 1990's will most likely not be recent enough to use. The bible is OVER 2000 years old and has NOT been changed and is still accepted as science by many. Information have been cherry picked from the bible to suit the views or the world the individual who created these religions had and has imposed this view to the entire religious population since the dawn of religion. Why do some Christians randomly discriminate against homosexuality, but do not condone slavery or degradation of women.

An evolution. IT's NOT random. Creatures didn't randomly change, they were adaptations. Think about a bunch of fish in a pool. There's a waterfall that they must jump up and a short piece of rock they must flip over to get to the mating grounds. Obviously only the ones who can jump high enough, last out of water long enough and be stronger enough to maneuver over the rock will pass on their successful genes. Gradually the fish may develop better skills to move across the rock (i.e. stronger fins will row more muscle) so the body starts to adapt to these changes. Also obviously the same rock would not be used for the entire species, once the creatures are able to adapt to the environment an they will either have an explosion in population, creating more diversity, or be faced with a new and harder rock to overcome, continuing evolution. This is only a small example of the many types of evolution.

Also the idea that an all powerful being created the world in 7 days is ridiculous. Did he doing it magically, or technologically. Either way, an enormous earth was created by a individual and no matter HOW long you may say the 7 days symbolize, the earth is still massive and does't make the idea of God creating the earth any more credible.

We are at a point where the amount of evidence between creationism and evolution is equally reliant of some sort of faith. Since we know creationism has all its "evidence" it needs already for more 2000 years, it will only be a matter of time before evolution is able to prove every single detail and there is enough research to render creationism myth. This will be an even bigger religious revolution than the flat earth theory.

reply to post by mamasita

sience and religion mix and there is no proof for evolution so BOTH could be wrong

REMEMBER THATT there is NO proof for either theory

it all comes down to faith

Originally posted by iesus_freak
reply to post by mamasita

 

sience and religion mix and there is no proof for evolution so BOTH could be wrong

REMEMBER THATT there is NO proof for either theory

it all comes down to faith

? Evolution has over a century of research and tests and study to PROVE it. Creation has "Worship us or die." people who will drag you to death behind their pickup truck if you don't agree with them.

www.belowtopsecret.com...
Maby this is not total proof, but I would say it's a start.
Lets just see what else they find.

reply to post by botiemaster


Thats not what all evolutionists believes, as most evolutionists are christians, (aka; most christians are evolutionists) so you are wrong when you think an evolutionist automaticly doesnt believe in god.


"We were selected, by um an unintelligent evolution process, or pure chance in other words to form humans"

We werent selected by pure chance or by accident. Organisms' genes mutate and/or recombine in different ways during reproduction and are passed on to future generations.

Sometimes, individuals inherit new characteristics that give them a survival and reproductive advantage in their local environments; these characteristics tend to increase in frequency in the population, while those that are disadvantageous decrease in frequency.

This is known as natural selection.


BTW, there might have been something BEFORE and/or OUTSIDE the universe or the big bang, where stuff came from, we dont know now. But i doubt were gonna settle with; "it came from nothing."

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen.

I was raised Catholic but an now an Atheist.

I hope there is an afterlife but I do not believe it. From a very early age, I figured that the Bible was early man's attempt to explain what he didnt know. However, it is filled with so many inconsistent passages (God made man in his own image - Yet we have belly buttons?? WTF is God doing with a belly button? Notice the Bible doesnt say "God created Adam in his own image". Would Adam have a navel? If there was a garden of Eden, why cant Creationists point it out? Can they produce the trees from Eden? Those trees would have NO rings in the trunk if they had been created by God. Fossils like this should be EVERYWHERE!!

What about when God looks for Adam in the garden and cant find him? He's omnipotent and omniscient isnt he?

Also, didnt Abrahim take Sarah to Egypt where he passed his (infertile) wife off as his sister so Pharoah would take her as his wife and give Abrahim livestock etc. Get this... Then God, PRAISES Abrahim for this and when Pharoah finds out about this trickery (even though he gives Abrahim the livestock and his wife back) God punishes Pharoah and promotes Abrahim to Abraham and fixes his wifes infertility!!

WTF is that?? Some lesson in how to get into Gods good books? Pimp out your wife and con her punters??

Where are Adams bones? Show me his missing rib!

With regards to a flood, what did the animals eat when they were in the Ark? How do Creationists explain how Carnivores survived after the flood with such a small sample of animals? Rats take 21 days to give birth, which means that hungry predators have to wait at least 3 weeks just for a ratty snack!!

What about lions? What about plants? How long after a flood will they take to re-establish themselves enough to provide sustenance for herbivores?

The limited genepool would have meant retardation and an inability to resist infections/parasites.

How do you know it was a worldwide flood? WERE YOU THERE?? (A Creationists favourite retort).

What about all those evil fish that went unpunished? lol

The theory of evolution doesnt explain all, nor will it or should it. If you find a flaw in the theory, this is ok. Only if you find a fatal flaw will it be binned, and so far it explains more than it dismisses.

The Bible however...

If you cherrypick, you can pick out the good bits and live a good life, or pick out the evil bits and become a real swine. If you believe there is a God, but think the Bible is mans work, then ok, but if you believe the Bible is infallable, then you are setting yourselves up for a major fall.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


That is an absolutely beautiful post. Well done indeed. Lots of the nonsense in the bible eloquently picked apart for all to see.

Again, well done I couldn't agree more.

The CCR5 delta 32 mutation in man is a prime example of a beneficial mutation. The CCR5 protein is a cell surface co-receptor. Those of us who have two functional alleles for this protein (normal or wild-type people) are susceptible to HIV-AIDS and Yersinia pestis (Black Plague) infections. The mutants, those with the CCR5 Delta 32 mutation, will be immune to both diseases if they have two mutant alleles. Some would be resistant to both diseases if they have only one mutant allele and one normal allele. This mutation is your proof. But for some people, they could have all the proof in the world presented to them and still would not believe it.

i've always wondered about faith i finally have the answer - its the thought of someone higher than you looking down on you. its all about looking up to them and representing them. that feeling you have of someone watching you - some ppl call that faith i call it insecurities.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The bible teaches that there was a beginning as does evolution. Evolutionist beginning was the big bang.

Genesis 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Genesis 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.

Self explanatory. Each of them produce after their own kind and contain seeds in themselves. This is what we find and it also disproves evolution because there is no record of anything producing anything outside of their own kind. Orange tress produce oranges with orange seeds. Those seeds when planted in the earth will only produce more oranges.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

There are only seven days in a week. Also the seventh day of the week has also been kept as a day of rest throughout history. It's called the Sabbath day.

Day of the week set aside for worship and observance of religious duties in Judaism and Christianity. The Jewish Sabbath begins at sunset on Friday and lasts until sunset the next day, during which time no ordinary work or act of labor is performed. For most Christian denominations, the Sabbath is on Sunday; prescribed conduct varies considerably, but attendance at worship services is a feature common to all. In Islam, Friday is the day of worship.
www.answers.com...

On a side note the reason "Christians" keep Sunday is because in 321 A.D Constantine decreed it and Roman Catholicism has upheld it and even forced it onto the masses. Many do it ignorantly out of traditional but it isn't the seventh day, it's the first.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

God is a spirit;
John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

Man was created as a spirit. Man also is dominate over all animal life. We tame them and use them for our benefit and not the other way around.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The spirit was placed into the formed man (body) formed form the dust. Your body when decomposed goes back to dust. If you want to refute this, go dig a body that has been buried for a while and then get to us.

Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

Genesis 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

It's interesting to note that ribs can grow back;
Q: When the ribs grow back after surgery, do they actually form new rib bone and reconnect to the spine, and how long does it take for this to happen?
A: Yes, the ribs do grow back, forming a new rib. This takes approximately two to three months.

Q: Is the new growth as strong as the original rib?
A: The new rib, once it is completely healed, will be as strong as the original rib.
www.scoliosis.org...


Garden of Eden
Genesis 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

Genesis 2:11 The name of the first [is] Pison: that [is] it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where [there is] gold;

Genesis 2:12 And the gold of that land [is] good: there [is] bdellium and the onyx stone.

Genesis 2:13 And the name of the second river [is] Gihon: the same [is] it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.

Genesis 2:14 And the name of the third river [is] Hiddekel: that [is] it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river [is] Euphrates.

This agrees with some evolutionist who hold to the Out of Africa Hypothesis. The precious metals are also prominet in those areas named as well.

Originally posted by mamasita
there are so many posts about creationist debunking evolution - but they never actually back up their beliefs with evidence.
I am curious - wat evidence besides the bible actually exists regarding creationism?

The evidence you search for is defiantly out there, you just have to accept it, or not. Here is a perfect answer to your question "Its both"

I have come to the conclusion that life started on this planet threw a natural evolutionary process that involved certain "Inspirations". As that life grew older it became capable of "Creating" life. So, both are correct, in my book.

For further information on the creation theory please see Lloyd Pye great work. www.lloydpye.com...

Google Video Link

Google Video Link

If you choose not to view the videos, you have no one to blame but yourself!

The whole point, the whole reason things are not totally obvious to the wicked man are there.

God wants us to have to believe, for if you don't want to believe in HIS LAW you HATE Him.

What better way to sort out those who shall live eternally with God and who shall suffer eternal damnation than through absolute and total FREE WILL than by never making known absolute truth through man's science, but by only making suggestions and hints.

You could not sift out good and wicked souls any other way. Those who demand more than simply wanting it to be are obviously wicked because they don't want to believe it - period! They are the ones at fault for denying it and making excusing for not following it (including demanding absolute truth which they know even science can not give them).

If you arte God and want those with absolute Free WIll to make a choice you would simply give your truth, make nothing seem absolute, and let them choose - this is what God means by Elect.

His elect are those who believe He could do best and want Him to rule - all others are damned.

There is no more perfect way to sift through the souls...

reply to post by HillbillyHippie

Agreed, to a point. What is Gods law, and the "Creators" law? And how do you sift threw that? Obviously, anyone with a heart has the answer inside already. But, there are those who sincerely are good honest people who are entrapped by a lie, do you condemn them as well because they believe a fairytale?

I suspect the Divine needs not judge anyone because people already know, even if they claim to be a Atheist. The judgment is for those who willingly defy and even after learning the truth do not turn away. They, are the damned.

Just my 2 cents........