What did the 9/11 Commission get wrong?

reply to post by Boone 870


"The Military Industrial Complex is a rather incompetent lot!"

Yes...I think thats what we have been trying to say here!!


The pipelines will go in..America may not get the prize but it WILL happen..as I said..the people in Afghanistan are not stupid..if you read the document I posted the link for you will see that Mr. Maresca from UNICOL stated "Mr. MARESCA. It's not going to be built until there is a single Afghan Government. That's the simple answer. We would not want to be in the situation where we became the target of the other faction." He also said, "All wars end. I think that's a universal rule. So one of these days this war too will end. Then I believe the pipeline will be secure." When there is this much at stake..these people will be patient...what is 5 or 10 years when you are talking about who will be the super power in the world??? And Mr. ROHRABACHER said it best about the people of Afghanistan...."I have been in and out of Afghanistan for 15 years. These are very brave, courageous people. If they think they are being stepped on, just like the Soviets found out, they are going to kick somebody back. They are not going to lay down and let somebody put the boot in their face. If the government that is receiving the funds that you are talking about is a government that is not accepted by a large number of people in Afghanistan, there will continue to be problems." Did you even read the document I linked??? Here it is again.
commdocs.house.gov...

Originally posted by gingerly
reply to post by Boone 870

 

......their were people (first responders included) who reported bombs going off inside...those were disregarded by the commission.
And the whole "STAND DOWN" order of the Fighter Jets and the war gamesthat day..too many little things that just dont mesh up.

They assumed the explosions they heard were bombs. These reports were not disregarded.

There was not a stand down order. Stand-Down?

reply to post by CaptainObvious


Then what was it..just mass confusion with the Air Force Pilots?? I am not being a smart butt with that comment/question..I can understand it being very shocking and confusing..people in shock adn not for sure what was going on..But with ALL our technology HOW could the hijacked planes just "be off the radar" etc. etc.????? WHY were they allowed in the air without any Fighter planes even going near them??

reply to post by gingerly


Ginger ~

You should re-read the NORAD post.

reply to post by gingerly


If the Afghanistanis stop blowing up the oil wells, the military-industrial complex greed mongers might get any pipeline completed. And then again might not. Shortly after the US attacked, there were those relatiating by blowing up the oil wells. I distinctly remember that featured on mainstream news by such media outlets as CNN.

reply to post by CaptainObvious


Who are you to tell anyone else what they witnessed or did not? Just because you believe something to be so, without proving it, does not make it so.

reply to post by CaptainObvious


Are you speaking of the Norad report from the other thread??? I have read this report and all sorts of others...I guess it just depends on who you believe. I think we have alot of very loyal good Americans in our Govt. and Military..but I also think we have alot of power hungry greedy liars who know how to cover their rumps..for the most part.
There is not much of anything said about the military and what their actions were just after the attacks happened in the 9/11 report.

reply to post by gingerly


They were not. If transponders are turned off, planes still show up on radar. Unless, the radar signals are deliberately intercepted and blocked.

reply to post by gingerly


If the NORAD reports stated any planes simply disappeared off radar while still in the air, using transponder turn off as the reason, that is not true.

Individual planes will still be noted on radar, except in these two cases, and provided all radar equipment at both the FAA control center and NORAD does not go out.

As I recently stated, there was deliberate inception of radar signals between any plane, NORAD, and FAA center. EC-130 cargo planes are psyops planes. They can intercept radar signals. So can any other military craft equipped with the same technology.

Another deliberate psyops tactic is to position one plane over another so it looks like only one plane on radar.

Originally posted by OrionStars
reply to post by gingerly

 

If the NORAD reports stated any planes simply disappeared off radar while still in the air, using transponder turn off as the reason, that is not true.

Individual planes will still be noted on radar, except in these two cases, and provided all radar equipment at both the FAA control center and NORAD does not go out.

Well, since you havent read the report, how can you comment on it? NORAD does not claim this.

Without transponder information, aircraft had to be located on the primary radar screen which shows a radar signal from every single aircraft in the air – none of them labelled

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by CaptainObvious


I have read what NORAD reported. It was not true when they reported this: When the transponders were turned off, the planes were automatically lost on radar. I know, for a fact, that is not true. What makes you believe it is true, and what is your validation to support your belief?

NORAD statements have been publicly reported, and NORAD and FAA personnel publicly interviewed. Plus, both NORAD and FAA testimony given to the committee and general public, regarding those very statements. Seeing blatantly false statements in some report or other, from NORAD and/or the FAA, is not going to change what can and cannot happen in reality on radar screens tracking planes.

The advantage of someone having actually witnessed what goes on in FAA control centers vs those who have not, can make all the difference in the world, between factually determining whether or not lies are being told. NORAD and the FAA did not tell the truth.

There is a way of wording statements, which on the surface appear to be true but are not. That is how NORAD and the FAA carefully worded their responses. Unversed people would never know the difference, and the Bush administration counted on the vast majority of people keeping themselves uniformed. That was a grave error on their part as time marched on after 9/11.

reply to post by CaptainObvious


That is a mighty fine cherry pick. Where is that statement in full context?

Taken from 9/11 REPORT The National Commission on Terrorist Attack Upon the United States

At 8:19, Ong reported: "The cockpit is not answering, somebody's stabbed in business class--and I think there's Mace--that we can't breathe--I don't know, I think we're getting hijacked."

At 8:28, Ong reported that the plane was "flying erratically". A minute later, Flight 11 turned south.

At 8:44, Gonzalez reported losing phone contact with Ong.

A 25 minute "phone" call from Flt 11?

Also from the 911 Report:

Training and Deployment to Kuala Lumpur
In the fall of 1999, the four operatives selected by Bin Ladin for the planes operation were chosen to attend an elite training course at al Qaeda's Mes Aynak camp in Afghanistan. Bin Ladin personally selected the veteran fighters who received this training, and several of them were destined for important operations.

My question is where did this information come from? How is it known that Bin Ladin "personally selected" these people?

The failure to find a primary radar return for American 77 led us to investigate this issue further. Radar reconstruction performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56. But for 8 minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56 and 9:05, this primary radar information on American 77 was not displayed to controllers at Indianapolis Center. The reasons are technical, arising from the way the software processed radar information, as well as from poor primary radar coverage where American 77 was flying.

At best whitewashing, at worst total BS!

[edit on 1/2/2008 by infinityoreilly]

As much rehearsing as was done for at least a year playing war games, including Amalgam Virgo (a dress rehearsal for 9/11 using Panama City, FL), it looks as if they forgot one important rehearsal. The rehearsal before the cameras after the fact. No wonder they made so many obvious blunders they are still working to clean up as recently as 2007:

www.usatoday.com...

'Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld thought a bomb had exploded at the Pentagon, even though the military defense command had been warned 12 minutes before impact that an errant airliner was headed toward Washington.

Cheney was told that six planes had been commandeered, that a helicopter had plunged into the Pentagon, that a car bomb had blown up the State Department, and that a plane had crashed in Ohio. None of that was true.

And even though a World Trade Center tower was on fire, the Pentagon was placed only on "Alpha" alert status, just one level up from normal and two levels down from the "Charlie" threat level the building is now under, Pentagon spokesman Glenn Flood said.

Amid all that confusion, Bush was forced to make what Cheney called "the toughest decision" of the day: whether American pilots should be authorized to shoot down an airliner filled with American citizens.

Fighter jets had taken off from Otis Air National Guard Base in Cape Cod, Mass., and Langley Air Force Base in Virginia, bolting toward New York and Washington.

But, Cheney said on NBC's Meet the Press, "It doesn't do any good to put (up) a combat air patrol if you don't give them instructions to act."

"The president made the decision on my recommendation as well," Cheney said. "If the plane would not divert, if they wouldn't pay any attention to instructions to move away from the city, as a last resort our pilots were authorized to take them out."

Said Bush: "I gave our military the orders necessary to protect Americans. Of course, that was difficult. Never did I dream we would be under attack this way."

The confrontations never happened. The two F-16s that deployed to intercept American Airlines Flight 77 did not get off the ground until just 2 minutes before the plane crashed into the Pentagon. They were about 130 miles from their target. The District of Columbia National Guard maintained fighter planes at Andrews Air Force Base, only about 15 miles from the Pentagon, but those planes were not on alert and not deployed.

When Flight 77 hit, the defense secretary thought it was a bomb.

"I had no idea," Rumsfeld said on ABC's This Week.

=================

Fighter jets respond to hijacking reports

How the military reacted to the terrorist attacks Tuesday:

8:38 a.m. - Federal Aviation Administration notifies military defense command an airliner has been hijacked.


8:45 a.m. - American Airlines Flight 11 from Boston hits the World Trade Center's north tower.


8:53 a.m. - Two F-15 fighters take off from Otis Air National Guard Base at Cape Cod, Mass., toward New York City.


9 a.m. - Pentagon moves to "Alpha" protection level, one level up from normal.


9:03 a.m. - United Airlines Flight 175 from Boston hits the World Trade Center's south tower.


9:25 a.m. - FAA notifies military defense command that a hijacked airliner, American Flight 77 from Dulles, is headed toward Washington.


Two F-16 fighters get orders to take off from Langley Air Force Base, about 130 miles south of the Pentagon.


C-130 transport plane at Andrews Air Force Base outside Washington is asked to try to make visual contact with the hijacked jet.


9:38 a.m. - Langley F-16s take off toward Washington.


9:40 a.m. - American Airlines Flight 77 hits the Pentagon.


10:10 a.m. - United Flight 93 crashes in Shanksville, Pa.


Around that time, President Bush authorizes fighter pilots to shoot down airliners that do not respond to intercepts.


Source: USA TODAY research

www.globalsecurity.org...

Amalgam Virgo

Amalgam Virgo is a joint-service, cruise-missile defense exercise at Tyndall AFB.

Fast, low-flying cruise missiles are hard to detect. To practice their part in defending the U.S. from these missiles, members of the 513th Air Control Group deployed to Florida for the "Amalgam Virgo" cruise missile defense exercise. The multi-service exercise tested the defense and response capabilities to a cruise missile attack on Tyndall Air Force Base, Fla., June 1-4, 2001.

reply to post by infinityoreilly

A 25 minute "phone" call from Flt 11?

What's wrong with that?

reply to post by infinityoreilly

Training and Deployment to Kuala Lumpur
In the fall of 1999, the four operatives selected by Bin Ladin for the planes operation were chosen to attend an elite training course at al Qaeda's Mes Aynak camp in Afghanistan. Bin Ladin personally selected the veteran fighters who received this training, and several of them were destined for important operations.

My question is where did this information come from? How is it known that Bin Ladin "personally selected" these people?

From the man who originally thought of "The Planes Operation", Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

49. For a description of the camp and the commando course, see Intelligence report, interrogation of KSM, July 15, 2003. For Bin Ladin's interest and the decision on the number of trainees, see Intelligence report, interrogation of Khallad, Sept. 8, 2003.

reply to post by infinityoreilly

The failure to find a primary radar return for American 77 led us to investigate this issue further. Radar reconstruction performed after 9/11 reveal that FAA radar equipment tracked the flight from the moment its transponder was turned off at 8:56. But for 8 minutes and 13 seconds, between 8:56 and 9:05, this primary radar information on American 77 was not displayed to controllers at Indianapolis Center. The reasons are technical, arising from the way the software processed radar information, as well as from poor primary radar coverage where American 77 was flying.

At best whitewashing, at worst total BS!

I'm not sure I follow you here, what part do you consider BS or whitewashing?

reply to post by Boone 870


So alleged hijackers were killing people, and, at the same time, allowing people 25 minute phone calls to give away their plans? Thereby, supposedly starting defense of the US, while placing all military on stand-by alert, and immediately getting planes into the air on the chance they can intercept. At least, that is what is supposed to happen.

So why is it the stewardess was telling FAA control or someone, for 25 minutes, what was happening, and yet all the US bureaucrats did nothing to defend the US? Now either the alleged stewardess spent 25 minutes alerting the officials, or she did not.

The "official" reports cannot have it both ways. 25 minute phone call alerting people, and, yet, the same people say they did not have a clue. Bush says he did not have a clue, and continued sitting in a Florida elementary school reading "My Pet Goat." Bush could not have picked a better symbol - the goat, particularly on 9/11.

Regarding the following citation, alleged Atta is supposed to know how to operate a Boeing 767, and yet does not know which switch to open between internal and external mike use. Alleged Atta is reported to have informed the FAA, "We have some planes....." at 8:23 am, and the top US bureaucrats redundantly claimed they had no idea anything was going on, until the second alleged plane hit the second tower many minutes later. Atta allegedly told them. The alleged stewardess of alleged Flight 11 (not scheduled to fly that day) allegedly spent 25 minutes telling them about one of "some planes". This nation's defense spent all their time behaving as a very, very bad version of the Keystone Kops.

Of course, if people are going to hijack planes, they always tell people they are going to an airport just so someone can arrest them. For alleged hijackers so capable of pulling off hijacking 4 commercial jetliners without a hitch, and US bureaucrats redundantly claiming to be caught totally unaware until after alleged plane 2, it was not too bright of alleged Atta to tell people they were going to any airport, when the passengers could plainly observe the NYC skyline and no airport in sight.

en.wikipedia.org...

"At 8:23:38 a.m., Atta tried to make an announcement to the passengers, but he pressed the wrong button and sent the message to the Boston Center.[9] Air traffic controllers heard Atta announcing, "We have some planes, just stay quiet and you'll be okay. We are returning to the airport". At 8:24:56, he announced "Nobody move. Everything will be okay. If you try to make any moves, you'll endanger yourself and the airplane. Just stay quiet."[7] Once again, Atta thought he was speaking only to the passengers; when in fact, his voice was being picked up and recorded by Air Traffic Controllers. At 8:26 a.m., approximately over Voorheesville, New York (apparently, the plane could clearly be seen from the Thatcher Park escarpment), the plane made a 100-degree turn to the south heading toward New York City.[10] At 8:33:59, Atta announced "Nobody move please, we are going back to the airport, don't try to make any stupid moves." At 08:37:08, the pilots of United Airlines Flight 175 verified to flight control's regarding on AA11's location and heading. At 8:37 a.m., the aircraft began descending from 29,000 feet at 3,200 feet/minute, and made a final turn towards Manhattan at 8:43 a.m.[7]"