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No help for Zimbabwe??

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posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 03:01 AM
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First of all I'd like to say hey! I am new to this forum and I am not quite sure if this is the right place to post this.I read an interesting article regarding the Zimbabwean crisis, and I think it would be interesting to get your thoughts on the matter.

The article concluded that the main reason why the rest of Africa (particularly Southern African nations) hadn't stepped in to stop the atrocities being perpetrated by Robert Mugabe was because of vested foriegn interest in their own resources. This is mainly due to Mugabes' refusal to allow any International companies trade or mine for minerals in Zimbabwe, and also the lack of skilled Zimbabwean workers to actually run the mines. Historically speaking Mugabe has never been too big on letting foreigners (especially whites) in on the abundance of natural resources and minerals..especially diamonds. Most mines in Zimbabwe are closed or running well below capacity. Compared to surrounding countries Zimbabwe's mining potential is massive.

Could it be that neighbouring countries such as Zambia, South Africa and especially Botswana (whose own natural resources provide mountains of fiscal gain due to foreign mining companies settling there) won't step in because they have too much to lose if Mugabe is taken out of power.




posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by AbsoluteLegend
This is mainly due to Mugabes' refusal to allow any International companies trade or mine for minerals in Zimbabwe, and also the lack of skilled Zimbabwean workers to actually run the mines.

Could it be that neighbouring countries such as Zambia, South Africa and especially Botswana (whose own natural resources provide mountains of fiscal gain due to foreign mining companies settling there) won't step in because they have too much to lose if Mugabe is taken out of power.



I actually think that there is some desire on the part of the African nations to see Mugabe succeed and bring economic stability back to Zimbabwe. I also think that they are bound by there own trade agreements not to offer any aid to Zimbabwe or those tribal groups threatened by him. The west seem to want Mugabe to fail.

I do not agree with the atrocities that have been committed against ethnic groups in Zimbabwe but there is also little objective information coming out of the country. Economic instability is a rudimentary cause of uprising and Mugabe is no doubt struggling to even attempt at rebuilding the economy. He has no means to do so until he can utilise the countries resources and he can't do that without social cohesion. It is a Catch 22.

When Zimbabwe fell into arrears on its funding from the World Bank, almost all of that funding was withdrawn. This was not Mugabe's choice, though it is often reported that he will not accept help from 'whites', this is not the whole story. He is simply unwilling to give up the rights to Zimbabwe's resources that would leave his country open to the renewed economic exploitation of the country.

Because the World Bank has withdrawn its funding, those people employed on these projects have lost their jobs. Many more professionals have emigrated. The west continuously exacerbates Mugabe's problems and refuses to assist due to Mugabe's refusal to sign over the rights to his countries mineral wealth. You can be sure that when Mugabe is eventually overthrown or assassinated that the west will have already negotiated a deal with his successor and money will start to flow.

Zimbabwe's mineral and land resources mean that they have the means to support their population and participate in import/export. Without help they can not exploit those resources.

Mugabe may be corrupt but he is no better or worse than many of the leaders that the west do support. He is only the enemy because he will not bow to pressure from the west, the western brokers only care how many Zimbabwean citizens he slaughters in so much as they can use it in propaganda against him and to gain popular support for ever harsher trading restrictions that further exacerbate the social unrest.

In Zimbabwe I see a situation that could be greatly improved by open-handed offers of assistance but those with the power to help are only interested on their terms. Compromise require mediation that is so far not forth-coming, I was disppointed by the Archbishop of york, John Sentamu stance against Zimbabwe. Rather than cutting his collar in protest it would have been more helpful for the Anglican Church to take a more diplomatic stance, restoring relations between Britain and Zimbabwe.

BTW welcome to ATS. Good thread



posted on Jan, 1 2008 @ 04:57 PM
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I think the fact that Africa's Southern countries refuse to interfere is based on more than economical matters. As far as I'm aware, Mugabe, even though his corruption and decay is seen in every aspect of Zimbabwe, is still seen as a righteous and ideal figure in Africa (A few years ago he was named one of the most influential president in Africa next Mandela). This is traced back to imperialism and the rooted hatred many Africans have for "whites", especially those who controlled many of the lands.
Even though back in the 1990s the white population in Zimbabwe only reached to 25%, they controlled many of the good fertilized land. Actually, Zimbabwe was one of the largest tobacco exporters in the world, and from personal experience I can safely state that agriculture was a huge pillar of the country and it really did flourish.
Before the British invaded Zimbabwe the people didn't even know how to farm, and it was the "whites" who taught them all. The downside is that they "stole" many of the goods for their own advantage, nonetheless helped the country itself. It's the same with neighboring countries. And I remember how many African countries applauded Mugabe for kicking the white citizens out of the country. Maybe you can consider that as a possibility.

The funny thing is that Mugabe really did nothing that kelped his country. And the entire mission of kicking the white population out aimed at giving black Zimbabweans more power and land. But that did not happen. Now the only ones with fertalized lands are men of the (corrupt) government, and as they are ignorant of agriculture, employment rates went down 50% as the economy comes to an all-time low.
It goes deeper than that. There's genocide and suffering and torture and all kinds of corruption found in Zimbabwe at the moment.
Mugabe is one of the worst leaders of the world, and it's a shame that this problem doesn't receive much coverage and attention.



posted on Jan, 1 2008 @ 10:21 PM
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Thanks for your replies! I often visit Zimbabwe as I have family over there and everytime I have been there conditions have worsened dramatically. However through all the poverty and hopelessness the people of Zimbabwe have developed into the bravest of all.

On my last visit to Zimbabwe around a month ago I had the amazing oppurtunity to talk to alot of Zimabaweans some of whom had been stripped of their land and had their families killed or tortured. Finally it seems that the zimbabwean people have united as one regardless of colour or creed. The abominations commited by Mugabe have turned some of his most loyal supporters against him. I had the privilage of talking to a Shona who had been a loyal devotee to the Mugabe regime and he mentiond that a lot of Mugabes former henchmen were breaking away to lead a resistance. Through all the suffering and hurt that has crippled Zimbabwe over the past 2 decades I think the light at the end of the tunnel will be the power of the citizens who refuse to sit back and watch any longer.



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by AbsoluteLegend
Through all the suffering and hurt that has crippled Zimbabwe over the past 2 decades I think the light at the end of the tunnel will be the power of the citizens who refuse to sit back and watch any longer.


Do you think that they are able to accomplish this peacefully? As I understand it there is no real democratic process at the moment, can the citizens get rid of Mugabe without the situation descending into a civil war?
I worry that the cure will be as bad as the disease.

There seems to be a large contingent who want Mugabe to fail, those that are interested in the resources that Zimbabwe promises, that would perhaps be interested in forming an alliance with those that oppose Mugabe. Do you think that the people of Zimbabwe would welcome assistance from the outside/'whites' as the lesser evil to Mugabe?

I see lots of criticism of Mugabe and his regime but very little in the way of how the void of leadership would be filled. Is the assumption that it just would be? Has the position already been filled? No doubt the British would be willing to take it on as a protectorate....two steps forward and four steps back?

I personally feel that we and those with the power to do so, are doing very little to help Mugabe and Zimbabwe. It is reported that Mugabe will not do business with 'whites' and yet it was the World Banks decision to withdraw funding on all its projects. No negotiations. That stinks a bit in my opinion. We only get one side of the story and I am not sure even if those in Zimbabwe know what is really happening within the country.

Mugabe does exert controls on the media but the international community also feeds what it calls 'impartial news' into Zimbabwe via the radio which is the most commonly available mass media in Zimbabwe. We all know just how impartial that western media can be! Some broadcasting signals have been blocked according to wikipedia, by the Zimbabwean government.

You obviously have personal knowledge on the situation and i would grateful for any further insight on the matter that you can provide.

Best wishes



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 03:11 AM
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As previously stated in this thread the saddest thing about the Zimabwean crisis is the lack of media coverage. It is extremely unfortunate that a whole country of people can be opressed and the rest of the world just sits back.

Zimbabwe's history is filled with tribal and racial warfare, however it seems now that many Zimbabweans are seeing past the clashes of days gone by and uniting to battle a common foe...Mugabe. Sure there are still those in Zimbabwean society bound by what has transpired there over the centuries. There are still those who live and breathe Mugabes policies but the glimmer of hope is the countless blacks and whites alike who are willing to stand up and fight together. The quality of life there is apalling, with water and electricity being cut off for up to 10 hours a day. No milk, no meat, no bread and no luxuries. They pay taxes on TV and radio. There is virtually no freedom and the fear of being arrested for conspiracy stops alot of citizens from speaking out due to fear of retribution.The only way to get a Zimbabwean to speak about the political state of affairs is to be alone in a room with them as it is believed that Mugabe has agents everywhere listening out for any public talk of revolt.

I couldn't say myself if civil war will transpire nor could I predict who would head up a new leadership. All I know is that the power of the people cannot be denied. Maybe all the revolution of Zimbawe needs is a welcome nudge in the right direction by foreign powers who are willing to say enough is enough.




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