Masonry and Compartmentalized Secrecy - Not So Easy To Dismiss

The only thing I see on ATS are Masons protecting their reputation - and showing up in herds to the same threads.

You operate with a very 'I'm part of the club' mentality and that makes it hard to take any of you seriously. The fact that you are Masons alone makes it a dead-issue to even read most of your posts

In any thread having anything to do with Masonic conspiracy, lo and behold, the supposed keepers of the light come in droves to throw around sarcastic comments and try to puff up their intellectual chests. Give me a break guys, the way you operate Mafia style within ATS is proof enough that you aren't trustworthy.

This was just one of many threads where someone has specifically stated that being a Mason does not mean you know the truth or are capable of understanding the compartmentalized nature of secret societies. By swarming into each said thread and acting like clan-members, you only prove that case. I don't think Masons belong on ATS to be honest, but it's interesting to observe your coordinated 'damage control' in progress, 24/7.

Just keep stifling discussion - don't worry, nobody believes Masonry is important or has anything to do with real society. You're just a club.

Originally posted by NewWorldOver
The only thing I see on ATS are Masons protecting their reputation - and showing up in herds to the same threads.

Really? I think there might be a few other threads here on Above Top Secret that do not contain Masons or their viewpoints.

You operate with a very 'I'm part of the club' mentality and that makes it hard to take any of you seriously. The fact that you are Masons alone makes it a dead-issue to even read most of your posts

So if you have no intention of reading our posts why even bother posting topics like this one?

In any thread having anything to do with Masonic conspiracy, lo and behold, the supposed keepers of the light come in droves to throw around sarcastic comments and try to puff up their intellectual chests. Give me a break guys, the way you operate Mafia style within ATS is proof enough that you aren't trustworthy.

While spouting unsubstantiated claims and unsupported accusations is so much more trustworthy.

This was just one of many threads where someone has specifically stated that being a Mason does not mean you know the truth or are capable of understanding the compartmentalized nature of secret societies.

Your point in this regard was answered. I did not see anyone disagree that this situation could not have occured. What was disputed was whether this situation had occured in Masonry. The overwhelming answer was no.

You may disagree, but you offer nothing but your opinion to back your statements. Something more concrete must be pro-offered to make a convincing arguement.

By swarming into each said thread and acting like clan-members, you only prove that case.

You do not want us replying? Then answer is fairly simple, do not bait us.

I don't think Masons belong on ATS to be honest,

To be honest with you, I do not think fabricators and prevaricators belong on Above Top Secret.

but it's interesting to observe your coordinated 'damage control' in progress, 24/7.

How do you control damage when none has been done? I think it is more along the lines of correcting mis-information and exposing ignorance.

Just keep stifling discussion

You are the only one failing to respond to posts. The stifiling is solidly in your sphere.

- don't worry, nobody believes Masonry is important or has anything to do with real society.

Replace Masonry with NewWorldOver and the feeling might be mutual. I am sure your contributions to society have been multitude and legion. Perhaps you would like to regale us with your charitable exploits?

You're just a club.

Maybe, but in my opinion, the best one.

[edit on 1-1-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

[edit on 1-1-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

reply to post by NewWorldOver


You continue with this rhetoric and yet fail to offer any evidence to substantiate anything you say. This is what people do when they know they've got nothing.

Your replies are made up of endless logical fallacies (some of which I have already listed), and even more humuours your perceived elementary knowledge of logic is leading you to misuse the names of other fallacies. You've literally got nothing. What is perhaps most amusing is that not only are all your replies made up of attacks and insults, but you are doing the exact same thing you accuse others of. Its so ironic its comical.

I know it's difficult for you to conceive of a world where you cannot so easily explain your surroundings. Where good and evil, right and wrong, is not so easily defined. I know by creating these fanciful theories it helps you better understand a world that is so complex it boggles your mind. But because you want the world to be simpler does not mean these theories you make up explain reality. They simply show your state of mind - which is not normal.

Offer evidence, answer our questions, or move on. If you must use masonry to explain the evil you see in the world, at least create a theory that has some sort of circumstantial evidence. It too would no doubt fail the test of logic and reason, but it at least would be more interesting.


[edit on 1-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

Originally posted by NewWorldOver
The only thing I see on ATS are Masons protecting their reputation - and showing up in herds to the same threads.

Perchance the ones that pertain to Masonry?

You operate with a very 'I'm part of the club' mentality and that makes it hard to take any of you seriously.

So why do you care if you don't take any of us seriously?

The fact that you are Masons alone makes it a dead-issue to even read most of your posts

Then you read and respond to them why?

In any thread having anything to do with Masonic conspiracy, lo and behold, the supposed keepers of the light come in droves to throw around sarcastic comments and try to puff up their intellectual chests. Give me a break guys, the way you operate Mafia style within ATS is proof enough that you aren't trustworthy.

Whether you trust us or not (I for one never asked you to trust me) isn't the issue, NWO. Why SHOULDN'T we deny wild speculation and in some cases flat out lies that are being said about us? Wouldn't YOU if someone were lying about YOU on a forum such as this?

This was just one of many threads where someone has specifically stated that being a Mason does not mean you know the truth or are capable of understanding the compartmentalized nature of secret societies. By swarming into each said thread and acting like clan-members, you only prove that case.

Hmm. "Mafia" and "clan" you sure like to insult people don't you? Why is that?

I don't think Masons belong on ATS to be honest,

Right. All Masons should be forbidden so non-Masons can speculate wildly about them. Wouldn't THAT make for fascinating conversation?

A: "The Masons kill babies"

B: "They sure do!"

C: "And they rule the world secretly"

B: "Yep, I agree"

A: "And they micro-chip people"

B: "That's got to be right"

et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseam.

but it's interesting to observe your coordinated 'damage control' in progress, 24/7.

Call it what you like. The majority of us on here never met until we "met" on this board. We came here likely through searching the web for Masonic issues and this one popped up. We post for the same reason you do. We are members of the forum and as such have a right to post, whether you want us to or not.

Just keep stifling discussion -

uh-huh, you make wild claims, stating them as fact, with NO SUPPORTING EVIDENCE, someone takes you to task on it and you say we're "stifling discussion"

C'mon NWO, at least parts of your posts would indicate that you're smarter than that.

don't worry, nobody believes Masonry is important or has anything to do with real society. You're just a club.

Oh, we're FAR from a mere 'club' NWO. FAR from a club.

and since you like the little emoticons so much, here's my favorite:

Originally posted by Appak
Oh, we're FAR from a mere 'club' NWO. FAR from a club.

I know what you meant, but I just can't resist.

Thats right...we RULE ZE WORLD! [insert maniacal cackle here].




[edit on 1-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

Originally posted by LightinDarkness
I know what you meant, but I just can't resist.
Thats right...we RULE ZE WORLD! .

LOL!

There's a cartoon in one of my Masonic magazines with two people talking. One says "I heard the Masons run the government." The other replies, "That's true, but they've done some good stuff, too!"

[edit on 1-1-2008 by Appak]

Appak, LinD, uh-oh we all responded within 20 minutes. You think this might induce even more paranoia?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Indeed Augustus. We are all being controlled by the masonic microwave beams. It's a coordinated assault of logic and reason! Oh, the humanity!

Must be those sneaky 33rd degrees...

[edit on 1-1-2008 by LightinDarkness]

More excessive quoting, sarcastic remarks, 'buddy-buddy' activity with other mason members.

I think I understand why they call you Masons... you are masters at stonewalling conversations with your elitist attitudes. Nobody believes what you have to say about Mason conspiracies and the logic in this has been explained countless times. Snickering in a group together only reinforces what me and other members have said, you aren't here to progress debates, you're here to gang up and dissolve conspiratorial discussion.

Keep it up. The only thing I hear from the lot of you is pseudo-intellectual huffing and puffing about conspiracies concerning your little club. I have noticed that other members don't really care what you have to say, I find myself wondering why I bother to reply at all. You don't understand the conspiracy theory even when we explain it to a T, as I have in this thread : it stands to figure that you're just impossible to speak with, as I've noticed LightinDarkness has derailed and highjacked countless threads because somebody badmouthed masonry

It's a sad and tired act and I hope the lot of you just keep it up, it will only validate the rest of us who do not trust you or want you in conspiracy forums.

[edit on 1-1-2008 by NewWorldOver]

I think all the Masons on ATS should sit back and not post for 1 week at the same and see how the SS section carries on with us "Masonic donkees" adding to the discussions.

It would be a week of very little dialog and all hearsay remarks with no viable proof added.

Sounds like a plan. I'm sure that profit and pleasure will be the result.

More excessive rambling, sarcastic remarks, and use of logical fallacies from NWO. How surprising.

I think I understand why people associate conspiracy theory with people being crazy... some theorists like you are masters at intentionally trying to create conspiracies to fit your own narrow worldview without evidence, reason, or logic with your elitist attitude. Nobody believes what you have to say about Mason conspiracies and the logic in this has been explained countless times. Crying only reinforces what me and other members have said, you aren't here to progress debates, you're here to gang up and divert attention from actual conspiratorial discussion.

Keep it up. The only thing I hear from you is pseudo-intellectual huffing and puffing about conspiracies concerning your narrow roldview. I have noticed that other members don't really care what you have to say, I find myself wondering why I bother to reply at all. You don't understand concepts such as "facts" "reason" or "logic" even when we explain it to a T, as I have in this thread : it stands to figure that you're just impossible to speak with, as I've noticed NewWorldOrder has derailed and highjacked countless threads because somebody wasn't badmouthing masonry

It's a sad and tired act and I hope you just keep it up, it will only validate the rest of us who do not trust you or want you in conspiracy forums.

See, NWO, you should really stop talking about yourself like that.

Originally posted by NewWorldOver
I have noticed that other members don't really care what you have to say, I find myself wondering why I bother to reply at all. You don't understand the conspiracy theory even when we explain it to a T

You haven't explained anything. Because of the "secrecy," the intent to keep more mystical teachings from the bastardization of the "mundane," you think the masons are up to no good but you're barking up the wrong tree. The reason the masons don't care, is because they know who they are and what they do. So do others.

If you want to bark up the right tree, there are secretive groups of powerful individuals that regularly meet behind closed doors for perverted reasons. The Bilderbergers are one such group. Another is the Council on Foreign Relations. The military industrial complexes of US and Israel themselves no doubt harbor dirty deeds that are done behind closed doors all the time, just by the nature of what they do. Try these out if you want to make assertions based on secrecy.

I myself have been strenuously wondering -- to absolutely no avail -- whether or not there exists an elite shadow group within Masonry. I surmise that these ponderings of mine, and, perhaps, everyone else's, stem from the fact that although Masonry is not a Secret Society, some of the happenings within lodges are kept secret. From this -- quite naturally -- certain speculations will arrise here, or maybe there. My observations indicate to me that this is fairly common to contemporary man in almost any given situation.

"Well, now..." I hear one or perhaps several of you soon begin, "just because we have a few secrets, that doesn't give people the right to outright slander us as they do."

Sir(s), you would, of course, be absolutely correct. I think your secrets, coupled with the anti-masonic accusations of old put forth by certain religions, are the cause of most of the type of dogmatic confrontations that occur on forums such as this one. That still doesn't make it right.

In my case and probably in the case of other persons, too, I observe "this world," wherever or whatever this world is, and cannot help but arrive at the conclusion that some kind of foul scheme for world dominion is "taking place." I can't help but arrive at that conclusion and neither can I shake it off. It would most certainly appear to me that someone is doing something about the "place," although I have no real idea who, or perhaps even what. I'm not going to accuse the Masons of anything of the sort, as I have no idea either way whether they are involved, completely behind it, or neither of. Good grief, I'm not even positive there is a "foul scheme for world dominion" underway, or if that along with this entire world is all a figment of this strange mind I apparently harbour.

Can a man really be blamed for wondering these things, fellow Sirs? Can he really be blamed?

It must then become a matter to further ponder, why some of the Masons who frequent these boards conduct themselves in such a childish and sarcastic manner when confronted with the varying degrees of anti-masonic commentaries that they are confronted with. I was under the impression some of the higher degree members were well schooled in philosophy and psychology, so such inflammatory sarcasm on their behalf would only be fighting fire with fire, wouldn't it? Or, perhaps you're all just sick and tired of the endlessness of it all and wish to get drunk online and concoct a jest at the expense of confrontational non-masons with your fellow Brethren? If either are truely so then don't expect a decrease in anti-masonic postings by people any time soon. Both sides will just keep banging their heads together in a stunningly pointless fashion for as long as they both exist.

Having said this, I'd like to thank the Masons who post here intelligently and astutely, even in the face of such great ignorance, hostility and stupidity. I have been watching and I can honestly say that you have put to rest quite a few of the questions I had about the various rumours regarding your fraternity, or whatever it is correctly named.

Indeed.

And then Good day.

Originally posted by Absurd
I myself have been strenuously wondering -- to absolutely no avail -- whether or not there exists an elite shadow group within Masonry. I surmise that these ponderings of mine, and, perhaps, everyone else's, stem from the fact that although Masonry is not a Secret Society, some of the happenings within lodges are kept secret. From this -- quite naturally -- certain speculations will arrise here, or maybe there. My observations indicate to me that this is fairly common to contemporary man in almost any given situation.

That's an excellent point, Absurd, and well taken in light of the fact that you do not post that such things as an "elite shadow group within Masonry" DO exist as FACT, like so many others do. None of us are against discussing the possibility, but it's darned hard to swallow when these individuals keep showing up again and again and making such unsubstantiated claims as pure Gospel and then turn and say that the Masons are "covering something up" when we deny it or at least ask for some PROOF.

Hell, anyone can speculate. I want FACTS.

In my case and probably in the case of other persons, too, I observe "this world," wherever or whatever this world is, and cannot help but arrive at the conclusion that some kind of foul scheme for world dominion is "taking place."

Maybe, but I can't imagine that a Fraternity would even WANT it, let alone be capable of doing it. Why the Masons? Why not the Republicans, the Democrats, the Libertarians? Why a charitable organization that meets in dusty old lodge-halls, dresses up in moth-eaten regalia, pretending to be King Solomon himself then dismisses themselves to go down to the corner cafe for some coffee and stale toast? Is it feasible that THESE guys are in a conspiracy to take over the world?

It must then become a matter to further ponder, why some of the Masons who frequent these boards conduct themselves in such a childish and sarcastic manner when confronted with the varying degrees of anti-masonic commentaries that they are confronted with.

Probably because the posters of such [ahem] "commentaries" are so funny to most of us that sarcasm is the only way to respond. Answer the absurd with the absurd (no pun intended of course)

I was under the impression some of the higher degree members were well schooled in philosophy and psychology,

Bad impression. Masonry does not have "higher" degrees (which has been said too much on this forum) and our membership is made of up people from every walk of life, every race, every creed. I know some VERY active Masons who hold or have held various offices on local, state and national level who wouldn't know philosophy if it hit them in the "philos" with a "sophia." Doesn't make them bad people OR bad Masons though.

Masonry has nothing to do with education, per se; although Masonic education is of vast importance, and sadly too few of our members have much.

so such inflammatory sarcasm on their behalf would only be fighting fire with fire, wouldn't it? Or, perhaps you're all just sick and tired of the endlessness of it all

B.I.N.G.O. ! You've just hit the proverbial nail on the head. It is a continuous thing with each new poster certain that he/she knows the answers and dead set to either expose the Masons for the devil-worshipping, baby-eaters we are, or save our souls from eternal damnation. (Hey, everybody has to have a purpose)

and wish to get drunk online and concoct a jest at the expense of confrontational non-masons with your fellow Brethren? If either are truely so then don't expect a decrease in anti-masonic postings by people any time soon.

I don't expect any such decrease to be honest. I do glean some good info from this board and have made a number of good friends and a few respected "enemies" if you will. If ONE person who reads the anti-Masonic information posted reads just ONE thing that I post and learns just ONE truth, then it was not for naught.

Both sides will just keep banging their heads together in a stunningly pointless fashion for as long as they both exist.

What you may perceive as the "banging of heads" isn't necessarily all that. To rephrase a poster I once saw about Real Estate Appraisers (which is my chosen profession) let me say this: "Arguing anti-Masonry with a Mason is like mud-wrestling with a pig. Sooner or later you have to realize, the pig is enjoying it!"

Having said this, I'd like to thank the Masons who post here intelligently and astutely, even in the face of such great ignorance, hostility and stupidity.

Keep in mind Absurd, that text doesn't convey feeling very well. What may at (many) times SEEM to be hostility, isn't necessarily. Indeed some of us write passionately, hurriedly, etc. but don't assume that it's necessarily in an angry tone. Hell, I find the majority of it hilarious. I know that certain individuals here will never be swayed to believe that an actual Mason knows anything about Masonry. How silly would that be? Obviously non-Masons are the experts in that field.

I have been watching and I can honestly say that you have put to rest quite a few of the questions I had about the various rumours regarding your fraternity, or whatever it is correctly named.
Indeed.
And then Good day.

Out of curiosity, how long have you been watching? I noted that you registered as a member only today 01-01-2008.

Good day to you as well. Hopefully you'll enjoy ATS. It really is a fun place. At least the Secret Societies forum. I typically don't post on any of the others.

Happy New Year

[edit to format quotes]

[edit on 1-1-2008 by senrak]

reply to post by senrak


I gave a star to senrak's post as he posted what I was about to. What becomes more than a little vexing (especially given the original poster's posit) is that we Masons to a man are witless fools and tools of plotters in our midst. Yet somehow, one who hasn't ever darkened a Lodge's door has a clearer insight into Masonry's truly evil secret inner workings beyond the 33rd degree?

It's a story that gets a little tiresome after repeated 'fresh' retellings. As one who could be categorised among the shorter-of-fuse, I can only apologise for my own behaviour and begin (much as I'd prefer not) to use the killfile on the more tiresome trolls in the vein of spirit7 et al.

Anyway, welcome, Absurd.

Originally posted by senrak
That's an excellent point, Absurd, and well taken in light of the fact that you do not post that such things as an "elite shadow group within Masonry" DO exist as FACT, like so many others do. None of us are against discussing the possibility, but it's darned hard to swallow when these individuals keep showing up again and again and making such unsubstantiated claims as pure Gospel and then turn and say that the Masons are "covering something up" when we deny it or at least ask for some PROOF.

Hell, anyone can speculate. I want FACTS.

Thank you, and yes, I understand where you're coming from, Senrak.

Maybe, but I can't imagine that a Fraternity would even WANT it, let alone be capable of doing it.

Sir, I'm sure that any fraternity even thinking about it would have their reasons, whatever those reasons may be.

Why the Masons? Why not the Republicans, the Democrats, the Libertarians? Why a charitable organization that meets in dusty old lodge-halls, dresses up in moth-eaten regalia, pretending to be King Solomon himself then dismisses themselves to go down to the corner cafe for some coffee and stale toast? Is it feasible that THESE guys are in a conspiracy to take over the world?

Good question. I wish it to be known here and now that the Masons are most certainly not the only grouping of persons whom I wonder about undertaking such large gamesmanship as a full scale global takeover, far from it, in fact. My post was about Masonry only because this is a thread primarily about Masonry. If indeed I were to accuse anyone of the kind of bad playing of which we both speak, it would be one if not all of the groups mentioned somewhere above by a one Bsbray11.

Probably because the posters of such [ahem] "commentaries" are so funny to most of us that sarcasm is the only way to respond. Answer the absurd with the absurd (no pun intended of course)

Why?

Bad impression. Masonry does not have "higher" degrees (which has been said too much on this forum) and our membership is made of up people from every walk of life, every race, every creed.

Hmmm, well I apologise for that, but I was under the impression that the various Masonic degrees were numbered. That's why I put higher in quotation marks. Is even this false? My Grandfather was an active Mason for quite some period of time and he had numbered degrees to pass. I didn't mean higher as in superior, or any such like.

I know some VERY active Masons who hold or have held various offices on local, state and national level who wouldn't know philosophy if it hit them in the "philos" with a "sophia." Doesn't make them bad people OR bad Masons though.

Masonry has nothing to do with education, per se; although Masonic education is of vast importance, and sadly too few of our members have much.

Thank you for your clarification on this matter. Please forgive my error.

B.I.N.G.O. ! You've just hit the proverbial nail on the head. It is a continuous thing with each new poster certain that he/she knows the answers and dead set to either expose the Masons for the devil-worshipping, baby-eaters we are, or save our souls from eternal damnation. (Hey, everybody has to have a purpose)

I can understand this, as I have witnessed it. But I think on occasion you all gang about on a poster and attack him/her quite unfairly and laugh at them. You have to put yourselves in their situation -- their reality tunnel. By fighting fire with fire, or the absurd with the absurd, as you rephrased it, all you're doing is creating more unnecesary confrontations with them. It creates in most cases an escalation. Perhaps you don't care either way, but I still advise that you fight fire with water, instead of fire, or "absurdity."

I'm not a Mason, so maybe I don't see it the same way, or even understand.

Senrak
I don't expect any such decrease to be honest. I do glean some good info from this board and have made a number of good friends and a few respected "enemies" if you will. If ONE person who reads the anti-Masonic information posted reads just ONE thing that I post and learns just ONE truth, then it was not for naught.

I understand you, but I think you are all much more effective when you remain calm and just respond with facts. Much less will then be for "naught," Sir.

"Arguing anti-Masonry with a Mason is like mud-wrestling with a pig. Sooner or later you have to realize, the pig is enjoying it!"

As I suspected. I can tell you're all enjoying yourselves.

Keep in mind Absurd, that text doesn't convey feeling very well. What may at (many) times SEEM to be hostility, isn't necessarily. Indeed some of us write passionately, hurriedly, etc. but don't assume that it's necessarily in an angry tone. Hell, I find the majority of it hilarious. I know that certain individuals here will never be swayed to believe that an actual Mason knows anything about Masonry. How silly would that be? Obviously non-Masons are the experts in that field.

You misunderstand me, my good man. I was talking about their hostility, not your own.

Out of curiosity, how long have you been watching? I noted that you registered as a member only today 01-01-2008.

Something like 4 years. I have never participated in any pro or anti-masonic discussions, though, if that's what you were thinking.

Good day, Senrak. Thank you for this converse.

Although I celebrate nothing, I wish you a Merry New Year, also.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
I gave a star to senrak's post as he posted what I was about to. What becomes more than a little vexing (especially given the original poster's posit) is that we Masons to a man are witless fools and tools of plotters in our midst. Yet somehow, one who hasn't ever darkened a Lodge's door has a clearer insight into Masonry's truly evil secret inner workings beyond the 33rd degree?

It's a story that gets a little tiresome after repeated 'fresh' retellings. As one who could be categorised among the shorter-of-fuse, I can only apologise for my own behaviour and begin (much as I'd prefer not) to use the killfile on the more tiresome trolls in the vein of spirit7 et al.

Put well. I can understand where you are all coming from, I honestly can.

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
Anyway, welcome, Absurd.

Thank you kindly, fellow Sir.

Originally posted by NewWorldOver


How can someone with the name "Masonic Light" not understand the concept of masonic degrees?

I understand the concept of degrees perfectly fine; in fact, I'm the Director of Work in both my Scottish Rite *and* York Rite bodies, so it's sort of my job to understand them. But judging from your post, I know that you really don't understand the concept, so I'll try to elaborate.

Degrees do *not* confer rank. Any Mason may apply for whatever degrees he wants, pay his initiation fee, and receive them. This doesn't give him any "rank" in the slightest; it simply gives him an opportunity to learn more about Freemasonry, it's history, philosophy, etc.

Case in point: I personally hold probably over a hundred different degrees in the various bodies. In the Scottish Rite, I'm a 32° Knight Commander of the Court of Honour. In the York Rite I'm a Royal Arch Mason, a Cryptic Mason, and a Knight Templar. I hold the Allied Masonic Degrees, the Knight Mason degrees, the ROS, the Rosicrucian grades, am a Noble in the Shrine, a TCL, and various other side degrees including, but not limited to, the Ancient and Honorable Order of the Yellow Dog, and the Turtle degree.

That's all well and fine, but none of them give me any special "rank". In Freemasonry, "rank" concerns those who have been elected officers and leaders in the fraternity. As a Past Master of my Lodge, I held the highest "rank" possible in a Lodge at the time I was serving as Worshipful Master. When my term ended, my successor took office, and I ceremonially conferred upon him my "rank".

You masons crack me up sometimes, I swear.

Alas, if you only knew how laughable the anti-Masons can be!