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All "Anti-Masons" read this

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posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 07:56 PM
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hey guys i havent posted in a long time. but the board is just the same as its allways been it looks like. to anyone new to this site let me let you in on a little secret. None of the Masons on this board will ever admitt to anything in an open and public forum that is conspiratorial.

I recently met a Mason on the road (I'm a traveler. I hitch-hike and camp out around the country. Go to Rainbow gatherings (lots of Masons and Illuminists there, who will openly admit it.) , but anyways I met this Mason... not going to tell you guys his name cause he's a friend and I don't want to incrimminate him. Well I did what I do on this forum, and presented my arguements to why I think there's something shady going on when he told me he was a Mason. Let me tell you something, they are tricky to argue with! They admit nothing and often change the subject to something completely unrelated that sound interesting at first, until you realize they have taken you on a tangent! Sounds kinda like these boards, huh? Well I was staying with this guy for a couple of weeks and we got into A LOT of arguements. I got the feeling after looking back on the situation that maybe HE COULDN'T admit any of it directly. Because, when not argueing, he did hint that one part of the conspiracy that I explained I knew about, was quite real. Very indirectly though it was. And I didn't call him on it because I suspect he would HAVE to deny it. What I mean to say is this: He admitted directly to me that they swear oaths, though he would not say to what. So if they indeed vow not to talk about it maybe they CAN'T. Maybe if your running into obstacles in your study of this very real conspiracy you should keep this in mind. I would almost say, try to examine their speach and see if they might be "trying to tell you something, without telling you anything". Get my drift? Maybe it was just this one Mason but I don't know.

Since I know that the Masons in the forum are going to hound this post like all the others that don't fully agree with them, I'll say this.

You can't generalize any group of people. Not masons, black people, white people, christians, jews, etc. etc. Just like not all black people are theives and not all white people want to kill native americans, not all masons want to take over the world. Yes, in my opinion, they among other secret societies are involved in a global domination conspiracy. But not every member knows it. Not every member actively does evil. Not all those that DO KNOW whats going on and are aware of the conspiracy mean to perpetuate it. No one group of people is wholly evil. Maybe misguided, true. But sometimes we must experience a fall from grace so that we can again find grace.

(Note: the "o" in G-d is left out. Jewish practice. Its a commandment not to erase a name of G-d. )

And for those Christian Anti-Masons who read this and say they are devil worshippers... I have many bones to pick with you as well. But, please, hear this if nothing else. G-d is all powerful and he is one! The devil is not a seperate entity from G-d! If they are then you are trying to say their is more than one G-d, a good one and a bad one. That is blasphemy according to the bible. The devil gets his power from G-d himself! The devil is just how we percieve the destructive force of the one G-d. It is because we cannot fathom the order of things according to G-d's infinite nature that we percieve evil to be bad. But all things that occur in this world only when G-d wills it. From the tinniest leaf on a tree falling at your feet, or a hurricane ripping the coast to pieces. All things came from and will return to G-d. I believe that the Masons, whether consiously or not are fulfilling the will of G-d. Just as you and me and everyone else does. We are all simply not conscious of it. Even when we do "bad" things they are part of the web of life and fate, and without them fate cannot be realized. The whole no light without darkness thing

[edit on 29-12-2007 by hexrain1]




posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 08:08 PM
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In continuation...

G-d is at work all around us, in the good things that happen to us, to show us grace and love, and also in the bad things that happen, so we learn from them and become better people. This also applies on a global scale. If you percieve that the secret societies have influenced society as a whole as I do, in a negative way, maybe it is to show us what to revolt against. Maybe the conspiracy is there so that when we discover it, it challenges us to tell others and deny ignorance. Maybe in that way by keeping these secrets from us they are actually incouraging us to dig deeper to question more, to break out of our boxes. Anyway, I used to HATE the Masons and Illuminati for a bit. But I was foolish. I forgot to love my neighbor as my brother. Yes, I can say I love my masonic brothers even though I think they are misguided. But, who isn't in this day and age? We live in a world of disinformation and secrets, none are immune to their effects. NONE.

I will also say that my Mason friend encouraged me to tell EVERYONE I COULD about what I know about the conspiracy. Which also tells me this. Like I said, some who are involved that know things don't like it one bit either. I believe there are players on the inside who are "on our side" should we say. But just like all their brothers they are forbidden to tell you. Just saying it should be taken into acount.

Shalom! We want Moshiach now, and it's time we start revealing!



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 08:14 PM
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The devil gets no power from God, NONE, NOTTA, ZIPPO! The only thing that Lucifer can do is try to whisper in your ear or get the other 1/3 of the fallen angels to do it because the devil can never be in more then one place at a time. The devil is nothing to God.

God gave us freewill because he didn't want a bunch of robots. Anyway, let's not get into a heated discussion about this and try to stay on topic.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 08:17 PM
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Agreed!

There has always been a balance of power between the white, black, and yellow schools, the latter only keeping the former two in check. The first tries to make life paradise, the second ruin it, the third keep it both.

The "Illuminati" essentially consists of a bunch of failed Exempt Adepts 7=4 who have to prey on humanity to maintain their dwindling individual existence as a personality, gain attention and kill to appease the demons they have evoked from within. Look at how many politicians give the sign of Bacchus all the time?



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 08:26 PM
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G-d and the devil

A debate about it would be on topic in my opinion.

So the Devil wasn't an angel originally? Where do angels derive their power? Are you saying that they have power in and of themselves? That would be agknowledging more than one deity. It's MONOTHEISM meaning ONE. They are not seperate entities they are one. Seperating them divides G-d's power into two. That violates the fact that he is ONE, inherent in ALL creation, not just the things we deem "good", but also things we deem "bad". The problem comes into being because humans are dualistic we see black or white. Really the unsiverse as a whole is not good or bad it just IS. Do you see what I'm getting at? Destroying Sodom and Gemorah, all those people dying, seems in some respects "bad". But only in the context of our finite brains. If we could see the WHOLE picture, we could see that both the good and bad lead to an end that requires both working in harmony and balance, becuse it is a human concept it only can explain so much.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 08:29 PM
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I'll add my own two cents here: both good and evil are illusions and the void, god, HGA or what you want to call it is beyond all these concepts, and all evil is the result of reaping what has been sown in past or the current life.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by hexrain1
None of the Masons on this board will ever admitt to anything in an open and public forum that is conspiratorial.


Or, it could just be that there is nothing conspiratorial about Freemasonry in its current form. I realize this hard for some people to understand: that sometimes, there really is nothing behind the curtain. I realize this is something that can be hard to see for those who want there to be some grand conspiracy - but while there indeed may be one - I am confident it does not involve masons as a institution.

Now, at the time of Masonry's inception it would have been quite a different story. Men working together in secret to exercise their rights to speak on matters of philosophy, politics, and morality which often went against the will of the state. For its time, this was indeed very conspiratorial. However, such rights are now granted to masons and everyone else in most countries - so the conspiracy is no more.


Originally posted by hexrain1
Well I did what I do on this forum, and presented my arguements to why I think there's something shady going on when he told me he was a Mason. Let me tell you something, they are tricky to argue with!


Could it perhaps be that there is no conspiracy, and you want so desperately for there to be one that you perceive anyone who offers evidence to the contrary to be "tricky"?


Originally posted by hexrain1
They admit nothing and often change the subject to something completely unrelated that sound interesting at first, until you realize they have taken you on a tangent! Sounds kinda like these boards, huh?


Yep, sounds MUCH like these boards. Except this sounds exactly like what most of the anti-masons here do. I have yet to see a thread that is allowed to stay on topic for more than two or three pages before it becomes COMPLETELY derailed by someone blasting the masons for everything from trying to take over the world to satan worshipping.


Originally posted by hexrain1
Well I was staying with this guy for a couple of weeks and we got into A LOT of arguements.


With accusatory tones like this, are you surprised? I think you'd find (if you use this sort of logic and reasoning in any other discussion) that you'd argue with many people.


Originally posted by hexrain1
I got the feeling after looking back on the situation that maybe HE COULDN'T admit any of it directly.


Or maybe...just maybe...there is nothing to admit? You keep saying that we dont admit anything - what is it you are looking for us to admit?



Originally posted by hexrain1
Because, when not argueing, he did hint that one part of the conspiracy that I explained I knew about, was quite real. Very indirectly though it was. And I didn't call him on it because I suspect he would HAVE to deny it. What I mean to say is this: He admitted directly to me that they swear oaths, though he would not say to what. So if they indeed vow not to talk about it maybe they CAN'T.


Sorry, no conspiracy here. The oaths are available for you on the internet. We won't tell you which ones are right in the spirit of our oath. We realize its all public information, but we choose nonetheless to act in the spirit of our own oaths.


Originally posted by hexrain1
Maybe if your running into obstacles in your study of this very real conspiracy you should keep this in mind. I would almost say, try to examine their speach and see if they might be "trying to tell you something, without telling you anything". Get my drift? Maybe it was just this one Mason but I don't know.


Actually, you probably run into obstacles in the study of conspiracy theories and masonry because there are none. It is very hard to find a conspiracy theory where none exists. Now, you are free to make them up - and many people do - but that you do so does not make them reality.


Originally posted by hexrain1
Since I know that the Masons in the forum are going to hound this post like all the others that don't fully agree with them, I'll say this.

You must not enjoy allowing others to speak freely, eh? God forbid that someone from the group you are accusing of a heinous conspiracy get to actually, I don't know, tell you their side of the story?


Originally posted by hexrain1
in my opinion, they among other secret societies are involved in a global domination conspiracy. But not every member knows it. Not every member actively does evil. Not all those that DO KNOW whats going on and are aware of the conspiracy mean to perpetuate it. No one group of people is wholly evil. Maybe misguided, true. But sometimes we must experience a fall from grace so that we can again find grace.


Yes, and while all this sounds nice and I do appreciate you not generalizing, do you have any proof of any of these claims? Any? I'd be happy to hear it.


Originally posted by hexrain1
(Note: the "o" in G-d is left out. Jewish practice. Its a commandment not to erase a name of G-d. )


If you are jewish, then it is sad that you think of conspiracies like this. Especially when your own ethnicity has been accused of the same sort of stuff. I would hope you would know better. Perhaps we should start threads about how Jews are trying to control the world, and when you respond tell you that your being tricky and your trying to change the subject?


Originally posted by hexrain1
And for those Christian Anti-Masons who read this and say they are devil worshippers... I have many bones to pick with you as well. But, please, hear this if nothing else. G-d is all powerful and he is one! The devil is not a seperate entity from G-d!


I am a Christian Mason, and I think your wrong. Of course if you are jewish you are going by the Torah, and in that case I can see your perspective. However, obviously Christians also believe in the New Testament - where Satan is explicitly mentioned and God himself throws Satan into the lake of fire in revelations. Is God throwing himself into hell now?

I know of no Christian who thinks Satan is anything other than a evil spiritual being. Not on par with God, not an equal with God - just part of God's creation and grand design. I do believe that God allows evil to happen - although I am sure he does not like it but it is necessary for free will.

[edit on 29-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by hexrain1
 


Luci used to be an angel, what kind of "power" that he had I don't know but you can be sure that God has taketh away if Luci did have any. Make no mistake about it though, Luci and and his agents are all around us and can whisper in your ear to get you to do his work for him. What do you think Jesus said to the deamons when they tried to intice him to sin? He didn't say, shhh your going to give me away, No, he said SHUT UP BECAUSE YOU'RE NOTHING.

So what is the big conspiracy among freemasons besides oaths? Oaths to cover up what?



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 08:39 PM
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Maybe look at it this way. If the Devil is not as powerful as G-d then G-d chooses to let him do evil to some expent. Whispering in the ear... He alows the devil to tempt us but has no power outside that which G-d allows it to.

So ultimately G-d has the final say. Masons if they were truly ALL evil would have perished a long time ago from G-d's wrath, so at the very least they still have a role in the future unfolding of history, Moshiach's arrival (Messiah, Jesus). We cannot see it because G-d's plan is so unfathomable to humans. Just as the deeds that the devil would have men do don't fully make sense to us, it is all part of the learning process, though hidden.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by hexrain1
 


You can "perceive" of "secret societies" plotting in an evil way against the world, but you have yet to show us any evidence or proof for these sort of claims. Why you would hold an irrational hatred for masons at any point in time confounds me - its just completely irrational.

Your mason friend told you to tell everyone you could about what, exactly? This tells me the mason was either pulling your chain OR you were talking to a fake-mason.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 08:43 PM
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People use the devil as a scapegoat to blame something or someone for their own karmic retribution and their own actions.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by niteipvvvvv
 


People use the relativist fallacy as a scapegoat to provide an excuse to do whatever they want. Which is what you believe in by the way, the relativist fallacy.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by hexrain1
 



Maybe, but I refuse to acknowledge the devil or give him any credit. All of the glory be to God.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by niteipvvvvv
 


No, people don't want to inherently do evil. It's the work of the devil. Take solice in the fact that the almighty can still forgive if it's possible. Remember, we have free will. Sounds contradictory I know.....



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 09:13 PM
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Light in Darkness thanks for the response, you just said what every other Mason here responds with to a T. That the burden of proof is on us to PROVE a CONSPIRACY THEORY, I know I know so I'll add this disclaimer. IMHO. Always forget to add that one... sorry.

In response to the observance of derailing, it is because you whip people up into and emotional frenzy with your words. You admit to nothing EVEN WHEN EVIDENCE is posted. OF course you'll say what evidence, but thats the derailing tactic. Look at previous threads to see instances of both sides not answering direct questions and derailing. Its like the Republicans and Democrats in regards to the media. Ask a Rep and he'll tell you the media is controled by Dems, or swayed to them. Ask a Dem and he'll say the same about the Reps.

Anyway I have to humbly bow out of argueing with Masons directly in this forum. I could get stuck in here for DAYS! I just want to present my observances of things and let people decide. I don't want to prove anything, that can't be proven or disproven, that is insanity. If any of this could be proven or disproven averyone would come to the same conclusion. That not being the case I fell we should discuss it without demanding links and proof of this or that if its not part of the thread. I think there is a conspiracy but I'm not posting this because of that opinion. I simply wish to urge everyone to have an open mind and dig deeper. Question everything.

BTW I'm not Jewish, actually I am German, Irish, and Scottish, so probably don't have any Jewish blood. I just find the religion awesome and pure. I practice some and study Torah.

As for the "Jewish Conspiracy" I believe the main body of evidence for that is the "Protocalls of the Learned Elders of Zion". In my opinion this is a disinformation document meant to confuse those would be seekers of truth. The only reason it seems to be a Jewish documents is the language used. (Elders of Zion, Goy cattle (Gentile), etc. Now where one might take this as proof of a Jewish conspiracy I acredit it to the craftiness of the Illuminati. They did it on purpose to discredit those who would use it as a reference, though it does explain what the Illuminati is up to. The Jews as a people have been very tolerant of Gentiles as a whole. Maybe at times at odds with the G-ds or G-d they worship, but mostly tolerant.

The families identified as Illuminati lines in classical conspiracy literature say that many lines are from Jewish lineage. Rothchilds for instance. But a Jew is both a religion and a race, so that the one word iddentifies two ideas. An athiest Jew is still a Jew. Just as A G-d fearing one is also a Jew. So even if a sect of Judaism or family line stopped practicing the teachings and no longer read and kept the Torah, they would still be called a Jew today. I'll say it this way... although Bush says he is a Christian, he doesn't act like one. He sends people to war instead of turning the other cheek or working diplomaticly, treating thy neighbor as thyself. So just as I don't percieve Bush as a Christian (or a G-d fearing one) because of his
actions, the Illuminati even if desended from the Jewish people are no longer "Jews" in all sense of the word. They do not seem to be concerned with good deads (the miztvot) or keeping the commandments. And certainly not ALL Jews are Illuminists! That again is a GENERALIZATION and is faulty.

The conspiracy cuts across all religious backrounds and spiritual beliefs. It entangles people from all walks of life. To say that one group, ANY group is perpetuating it and that everyone involved is evil, is wrong. That is what I hope this thread communicates.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 09:18 PM
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"Anyway I have to humbly bow out of argueing with Masons directly in this forum."

NO!!!!! Don't do it because I already did, you must continue to march without me, LOL



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 10:04 PM
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I am not a mason, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Obviously, this is my first post after lurking for a while.

I keep reading in these Mason or Anti-Mason threads the same thing comes through...

"They should tell us all there secrets. What do they have to hide?"

I find this laughable. Has anyone here called up the CEO or people in the know for Coca-Cola and got their secret formula? They should freely share that...

As a business owner, it certainly would be helpful to know other people in my industries 'secrets'.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 10:13 PM
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I never asked for a revelation of their secrets in this thread. I'm simply saying that through all of this we must keep an open mind and dig as deep as we can on as many levels as we can. And to take into account that they take theit oaths very seriously, so much so that even if every fiber in their being wanted to, they are bound not to tell those uninitiated.

I long gave up trying to get anyone to tell me secrets. They are the secrets of the craft which have been protected for centuries if not millenia. Knowing this it is absurd to imagine that any non initiated could get them to willingly divulge secrets. I think all the Anti-Masons would agree with the statement that a lot of us conspiracy nuts come here to see if any of you guys will slip up and divulge it on accident. I have abandoned this hope. But now I think that, based on my conversations with my mason friend, some of them want to tell us whats going on but can't. Not directly anyway.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 10:17 PM
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Most of them have little to reveal. And most of what they do have is of no practical value, unless they were also in other lodges which aim at actually getting things done.

Dozens of masons have left the lodge and spilled everything they know online. Search google or yahoo a lot for ex-freemasons, masonic secrets, and the like.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by hexrain1
 


I am sorry that you get upset that the masons on this board will remind you to use logic and reason in your theories. That includes following the burden of proof rule. If you do not understand why you must do so, I cannot help you.

You derailed your own post by starting out accusing the masons of something and ended up talking about how God/Devil were the same entity. Will you blame the masons for that as well?

By the way, exactly how are masons stirring up emotions? Who is being accused of everything from running a NWO cabal to satan worship? You? No. The masons on this board. Yet we take it, and generally react with calm - although I know I get tired of some of this. You are purposely stirring emotions by throwing up theories you either know to be lies or supported by absolutely no evidence to bait people.

Your observations mean nothing if you cannot prove them. For example: I observe that you reptilian. Prove me wrong. Remember, you don't think anyone should have to follow burden of proof or provide EVIDENCE for what they say. Until you can provide some semblance of proof or evidence for your masonic conspiracy theories, I will continue to point out you have none and thus no one who uses logic or reason to come to a conclusion should believe in it.

You seem to have some understanding of how the jewish people have been unfairly accused of everything, and yet you do the same to masons. The irony does not fail me.

It is true I take my oath seriously, as do most masons. But there is nothing odd about it at all. If you are married, did you take your marriage vows seriously? When you say the pledge of allegiance, do you take it seriously? The oath is an oath like any other, and there is nothing sinister in being faithful to it. The secrets of masonry you will never find if you are looking for them, even though the ritual for every degree of every order is plastered everywhere from the internet to your local library. And yet you will never find the true secrets when you look for secrets, because those are the things that are held in our hearts. And they are the most virtuous types of secrets I know of, which tell me to hold high the concepts of friendship, morality, and brotherly love. To be charitable always, and to do good.

Sinister indeed.



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