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Why is Christianity a religion? Why not...

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posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 08:15 AM
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A Myth?

EDIT: HAHAHA!
Im such an Idiot, I put this in the wrong subject, it should be under religious conspiracies, not mysterious, Moderators, please move this


Now, Let me get this straight before you start reading, I am a Christian, however, I want to be a scientist, my father is a pastor (Reverend) and he is a devout christian, having read the WHOLE entire bible (NIV) 9 times already, and, he is dissapointed that I strongly yearn to be a scientist, and that I believe in evolution, etc.

Ahem, so,
Why is Christianity a religion? Not a myth? It has elements that are fanciful, I mean, do you really expect me to believe that the universe as we know it was formed in 6 days? Why shouldn't we believe that animals change over thousands of years of existence? Why should we believe that there is a being so vast and powerful that he/she/it can destroy us with a single finger? If we believe those things why shouldn't we believe in hydras, dragons, and other mythical creatures of lore?
So... It went strongly against my morals to write that short bit before, but I'll continue on why I don't believe in God TOO much any more,


1. No Definate Proof Exists


I see no solid evidence that God exists, you may argue that the Bible is proof enough, but what about the Koran? And all those other religious texts? dont they all proclaim that their god exists? And why should we believe them at all?

2. Having unlimited power


I see that its impossible to be able to do anything, What if you told God to make 2+2=5 it is physically and mentally impossible, because 2+2=4, not 5, and I see nothing you can do to change it.

Ahem, so, saying that, I don't really believe in God, but im not an athiest either, as I believe the bare bones of Christianity, BUT, If God was to reveal himself to me properly, without the use of miracles, signals, or any other substitute and make 2+2=5 while still making sense, I would willingly renounce my statement and accept that God exists, and try to corrobate that into my knowledge,
And, Heres a link to an online activity which I think is good for backing up what I said,

The Do-It-Yourself Diety - Can You Construct The Perfect God? Doubt It!

And thats all I have to say for now, Im open to suggestions and comments, but please don't be too harsh, and, im only 12 years old.


[edit on 28-12-2007 by killas900]




posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 10:02 AM
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Well, first of all I suspect that you're actually an atheist trying to raise doubts in weak minds, because if you were a Christian there would be no doubt about it. God does exist, and His word is all you really need so if you can't trust it you don't trust God, and if you can't trust either what does that make you.

Now on science. The Bible does not, and never will dispute that the universe is billions and billions of years old. Nor does it deny that the Earth is over 4.5 billion years old. And it doesn't say that God did not create life on this panet prior to the appearance of man. Go to Genesis.

1. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth.. This means that they were created and completed.

2. And... This means "but" or " but then"

And ... the Earth was without form and void and doarkness was upon the face of the deep... Or, in others words

In the beginning God created the heavens and the erath but then the Earth became a lifeless and empty planet, covered in thick darkness and it's surface completely covered with water.

The word "without form" means "life form" and "void" means "desolate and empty".

The 6,000 years period begins when God said "Let there be light, and there was light" (notice that here comes a first day and night so the Earth was already in place and rotating. God cleared away the darkness. He also said " let dry land appear", because the Earth was completely covered by water just like Noahs flood.

What God does is replant (replenish) the Earth, fill it with many species of life, and caps it off with manind, or the species called "Adam". All humans trace their history back to Adam.

Now, the serpent was more crafty than any of the beasts of the field that the Lord God had made and he said unto the woman... Two things are shown here, the first is that the serpent was not one of the beasts of the field that the Lord God had made, and the second was that he had the power of speech, and could walk on two legs, and he was intelligent. So this creature was either a leftover from the disaster that happened prior to the creation of Adam and Eve, or he was from another world and had come to visit with Adam and Eve.

And the Bible does not say that we humans and the Earth are the only life in the universe, but rather that the universe is filled with life. Read Revelation 12:12 and Genesis for two quotes of scripture.

Genesis 2:1
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

The word host here means "mass of persons"

H6635 (outside source - Hebrew concordance)
צבאה צבא
tsâbâ' tsebâ'âh
tsaw-baw', tseb-aw-aw'
From H6633; a mass of persons


What some people do is limit God and make assumptions without a basis for them. God is a Creator, and Jesus said that God is still working today. It is what He does by nature, He "creates".

I hope this helps you some. If you're just another atheist trying to bend the weak minds of people, I hope those weak minds read this post.

[edit on 28-12-2007 by Fromabove]

[edit on 28-12-2007 by Fromabove]



posted on Jan, 1 2008 @ 04:42 AM
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Have I angered you some how, Fromabove?
First of all, Im not atheist.
Secondly, it was never my intention to try to make people renounce their beliefs and convince people to be atheist, and I am sorry for any unwanted feelings I have caused you.
Thirdly, as I said before, I would change my position, so, I accept the fact that the Earth may not have been formed in 6 days, BUT you misunderstand me, I said the Earth as we know it, not as it was before, and in the bible, it says that the light, life, land, etc. was formed in 6 days.
Also, imagine that some one dreamed up a ficticious creature called the 'Blah Blah Flying Monkey Fish', if you heard of it just like that, out of the blue, obviously you wouldn't believe in it, But, if the person who dreamed up of it described its abilities, like, for example, it a fish that can use its fins to glide (Fly) you might believe in it more than before, but still not. Then, if the person described it more and in alot finer detail, like its anatomical structures, its feeding habits, appearance, some people might believe in near fully, but still with alittle bit of doubt, if the person spent 40 years elaborating on his imaginary fish, it might be so finely described that thousands of people believe in it, even though they havent seen it.
Go figure.
From what I said.



posted on Jan, 1 2008 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by killas900
I am a Christian, however, I want to be a scientist


First of all, why do you consider Christianity and a profession in science mutually exclusive? Many, many Christians have science-related professions (including myself). Science doesn't contradict the existence of God but provides extreme amounts of evidence pointing to a divine creator. And I just want to add that evolution is not a science by the strictest definition. It is only a theory that contradicts other proven scientific laws, not to mention the fossil record, as well as common sense.


Ahem, so,
Why is Christianity a religion? Not a myth?


Because the Bible is the only, yes only, religious text that validates itself through prophetic fulfillment (my favorite!), science, expositional theology, textual exegesis, and undesigned coincidences.


It has elements that are fanciful, I mean, do you really expect me to believe that the universe as we know it was formed in 6 days? Why shouldn't we believe that animals change over thousands of years of existence?


Again, this is not mutually exclusive. Animals and humans have changed over our thousands of years of existence as the Bible clearly states. However, the species do not evolve into other or more complex creatures through adaptation like the theory of evolution asserts. Just the opposite! We have been in a constant state of entropy (as the laws of physics assert) due to the curse of sin and its effects. Evolution (a theory) goes against the grain of physics (proven). And wouldn't you know it- the Bible endorses the scientific proven theory of degeneration- not the man made theory of evolution.


If we believe those things why shouldn't we believe in hydras, dragons, and other mythical creatures of lore?


See above.


1. No Definate Proof Exists
I see no solid evidence that God exists, you may argue that the Bible is proof enough, but what about the Koran? And all those other religious texts? dont they all proclaim that their god exists? And why should we believe them at all?


Proof? This depends on what you consider proof. Mounds and mounds of evidence? Absolutely! Again, see above. Because other religious texts do not contain the same authority and evidence offered by the Bible.


2. Having unlimited power


I see that its impossible to be able to do anything, What if you told God to make 2+2=5 it is physically and mentally impossible, because 2+2=4, not 5, and I see nothing you can do to change it.


This is known as a paradox. The most common example given is if God can do anything, can He create a rock so heavy that He cannot lift it? However, your example is a little off and somewhat along the lines of Shakespeare's "what's in a name" query. We could simply say just change the definition of 4 to mean 5 and 5 to mean 4. Why does the Roman numeral IV mean 4? Because that is what we define it to be.


BUT, If God was to reveal himself to me properly, without the use of miracles, signals, or any other substitute and make 2+2=5 while still making sense, I would willingly renounce my statement and accept that God exists, and try to corrobate that into my knowledge


I already showed you how to do this. Can I be God?
But seriously, you are assuming God is controlled by our mathematical laws, logic, definitions, science, etc., and this is an erroneous assumption in itself. He created these laws for our benefit to give us structure. Peter alludes to this when he says 1,000 years to us is but a day to God. Although He created these perceptions, He is not bound to them. Our perception is not God's perception nor do they govern the very one who created them.



posted on Jan, 1 2008 @ 11:20 PM
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Wow, AshleyD, you must have spent some serious time on that post, I have to say, im NOT anti-christian or atheist, and im only 12, so please don't try to kill me by information overloading, or assume that I am trying to put down Christianity, I see that you are quoting my post, and the words literally, BUT, try not to


I think that you have either copied that post from another source and modified it, or wrote all of that in about 1 hour, or have done that post heaps, all I can say is, Nice post, you could convince some atheist friends of mine. (3 of em)



Originally posted by AshleyD
I already showed you how to do this. Can I be God?


Well, I said


BUT, If God was to reveal himself to me properly, without the use of miracles, signals, or any other substitute and make 2+2=5 while still making sense, I would willingly renounce my statement and accept that God exists, and try to corrobate that into my knowledge


I said I would accept that God exists, not say that who ever explained it to me was God


Anyway, personally I would prefer that religion didn't exist, because that means we can act without fear of divine retribution, however our acts might not be morally correct, but some stuff are really just unavoidable.
And... That means I dont have to wake up on a Sunday morning at 5:00AM... Anyway, I have no argument with you, for you are obviously older than me, and more experienced in bibliogical (Is that a word?) matters.



posted on Jan, 1 2008 @ 11:42 PM
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The myths, as we know the classical myths,
eventualy became religions. It is part of civilization. Once you have travel as something available to common folk, the cults can attract them to their particular cult sites. As the folk return home, they can spread the message of their cultish experience. With all cults, with popularity, comes respectability.

[edit on 1-1-2008 by jmdewey60]



posted on Jan, 1 2008 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by killas900
Wow, AshleyD, you must have spent some serious time on that post.


It's okay. I have no life. Seriously though, it didn't take much time. Almost all of these are questions I've been asked before.


I think that you have either copied that post from another source and modified it


My words are always my own. Kind of hard to find a source to paste from for multiple specific questions!




I said I would accept that God exists, not say that who ever explained it to me was God


Drats! There's quite a few people I wanted to zap.



Anyway, personally I would prefer that religion didn't exist, because that means we can act without fear of divine retribution


Or we could believe He does exist, accept His offer of free salvation, and receive a blessing beyond our wildest dreams.

[edit on 1/2/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 02:35 AM
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Writing what you wrote at 12 was a great start.
Go be a scientist!

As another poster stated, myths become religion when people follow them blindly and on a large scale.

No wonder your father doesn't like that you want to be a scientist and believe in evolution.

He gets payed for lying to people about six day cosmic creativity and other imaginary things.

Can you imagine how afraid he is of you coming home angry when you know just how high and far he went with the lying?

Can you imagine what an ignorant fraud he will look in your eyes after you complete your education?

Man your dad must be poopin' in his boots.








[edit on 3-1-2008 by Legalizer]



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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.....times already, and, he is dissapointed that I strongly yearn to be a scientist, and that I believe in evolution, etc.


A great profession! Follow your dreams.


Ahem, so,
Why is Christianity a religion? Not a myth? It has elements that are fanciful, I mean, do you really expect me to believe that the universe as we know it was formed in 6 days?


Time was only conceived when the Earth started to spin and started to revolve around the Sun. That is our concept of time so we are able to tell the hours, the days, the months, and the years based on the movement of the Earth.

I believe "Time" started on the fourth day. Refer to Genesis 1:14 where it states - "let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years."

"God made two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, the lesser light to govern the night."

So, there. We have the natural mechanism of a clock. We have the greater light, the Sun, and we have the lesser light, the Moon. We have the moon to tell the month, we have the Sun to tell the year and we have the spin of the Earth to tell the day. It is only on this verse that mentioned to mark seasons, days, and years which tells us the birth of time.

Thus, time was only conceptualize or "born" on the 4th day of creation. This is the time "Relative" to us. Note "Relative".

Now, the "day" described in Genesis to separate the phases of creation was "Relative" to God. Relative to God, a day is a thousand years and a thousand years, a day.

Time, "Relative" to us, a day is 24 hours, a month is 30 days, and a year is 365 days.

Thus, when the Bible says, 6 days of creation, it is not Relative to our time, it is relative to God.

Using our unit of time, it may measure into the thousands or millions of years. Using God's unit of time, it may be in an instant or a thousand years. We don't know actually the time scale God created the universe.

2 Peter 3

8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.



I see no solid evidence that God exists, you may argue that the Bible is proof enough,


You don't need evidence God exists. The Bible contains so many modern scientific facts that it even baffles me because the facts written were only known 10-15 years ago and the Bible is an ancient Book. It seems to travel through time. Now, having this modern scientific knowledge in an ancient book, would you still need evidence that God exists?


Ahem, so, saying that, I don't really believe in God, but im not an athiest either, as I believe the bare bones of Christianity, BUT, If God was to reveal himself to me properly,


It is just a matter of time and patience. People are a very impatient lot. They want results NOW! They want to see NOW! If it cannot be satisfied, they'll conclude it's a Myth. But, you see, people have relatively short life span - averages around 70-80 years. Thats pretty short compared to the age of the universe.

So, where do we go after this? Are you satisfied that you just cease to exist? Thats it? Poof! If thats the case, then, what is the use of being alive? Annoy people and then poof.

Do you sometimes wonder why we are the only animals that wear clothes and the rest of the animal kingdom don't? Why are we so conscious of who we are? Why do we feel shame when naked? What gave us this guilt, this uneasiness? Yeeechh...

And animals are so shameless? lol.

Are you able to find that truth in the Bible?

Something to think about.



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by Legalizer
Writing what you wrote at 12 was a great start.


I too thought she did a good job for a 12 year old. I was still playing with Barbie dolls at that age!



He gets payed for lying to people about six day cosmic creativity and other imaginary things.


Why is the word "lying" so frequently used? The existence of God has never been disproved and there is a plethora of evidence testifying to His existence.

Meanwhile, authors who do lie in order to make a quick buck through book and merchandise sales make up all sorts of lies using false information. Mainly concerning the genre of religious, governmental, and extra terrestrial conspiracy theories.


Can you imagine how afraid he is of you coming home angry when you know just how high and far he went with the lying?


Again, give me enough evidence (I understand you cannot come up with proof so I won't assign that task) that God is an invented concept and does not exist. Until then, I'd hold off on the lying accusation. There is more evidence (again, not proof) that He exists than there is evidence that He does not exist.


Can you imagine what an ignorant fraud he will look in your eyes after you complete your education?


An ignorant fraud like those who perpetually falsify evidence to verify the theory of evolution and religious conspiracy theories? The ignorant frauds who believe inorganic matter floating throughout the universe somehow transformed into organic intelligent and complex systems? The ignorant frauds who teach that Christianity is derived from astrology and pagan myths? But don't take my word for it. Pick up a copy of Darwin's The Origins of the Species. Even he admits to the dozens of holes in his theories.



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
Science doesn't contradict the existence of God but provides extreme amounts of evidence pointing to a divine creator. And I just want to add that evolution is not a science by the strictest definition. It is only a theory that contradicts other proven scientific laws, not to mention the fossil record, as well as common sense.


That's some great stuff there.

Extreme amounts of evidence for a divine creator, but evolution is not strictly science. Cheers, needed that, marking gets me down sometimes.



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by melatonin
Extreme amounts of evidence for a divine creator, but evolution is not strictly science. Cheers, needed that, marking gets me down sometimes.


Hm... you are either purposely being argumentative and twisting my words or you are genuinely confused. I'll assume the latter as to not offend you.

I never referred to creationism as being a science but stated there is ample evidence in our scientific knowledge (not theories!) that verify principles the Bible teaches about our planet, origins, and the evident degeneration of life and matter. And evolution is absolutely not science in the strictest sense in that it fails to meet the requirements of the scientific method. Is it a scientific theory? Yes. Is it a scientific fact? No.

[edit on 1/3/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
I never referred to creationism as being a science but stated there is ample evidence in our scientific knowledge (not theories!) that verify principles the Bible teaches about our planet, origins, and the evident degeneration of life and matter.


Okie doke, if you say so. Is this the same bible that has birds flying around a 'day' before land animals, and fruit trees (angiosperms) before any animals?


And evolution is absolutely not science in the strictest sense in that it fails to meet the requirements of the scientific method. Is it a scientific theory? Yes. Is it a scientific fact? No.


It fits the scientific method perfectly. It makes testable, falsifiable predictions.

Evolution is fact and theory. It is a fact that life has evolved over time, the mechanism is a scientific theory.


JSR

posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by killas900
 


12 years old!! wow. very deep for 12. if I may offer some advice......

first,
don't be too hard on your dad. im sure he loves you, and just wants the best for you. considering he is a pastor, his idea of what is best for you is wrapped in his beliefs. it took him years of study, in a subject he feels profoundly, to achieve what he has. try not to knock him so much. just know that what he has chosen for himself is not what you choose for yourself. learn not to take it personal. his intentions are good. and in time, he will begin to let go of you a little at a time.

second,
while you do seem to be a very intelligent 12 year old, understanding and experience are different. let your heart live a little before you make a decision about weather there is or is not a god. just put it on the back burner of thought. move along. and, live in the now. just enjoy life for a few years.

third,
just because you want to be a scientist does not mean you have to throw away everything concerning spirituality. be careful not to become purely logical, you'll miss a lot.
if science is your thing, good. I love science too. check out a book called "The Self-Aware Universe" by Amit Goswami. its a very good read.
here is an interview with the author about the book.
twm.co.nz...

good luck sir. I wish you well on your journey.



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by melatonin
Is this the same bible that has birds flying around a 'day' before land animals, and fruit trees (angiosperms) before any animals?


You must be referring to a different Bible because mine clearly states plants came before living creatures in the chronological order of Genesis 1.

Genesis 1:11 Vegetation created.
Genesis 1:20 (After verse 11): Living creatures created.

You're possibly referring to the typological order in Genesis 2. Since I already answered this in another thread, allow me to copy and paste from another one of my comments on ATS about the alleged contradiction between Genesis 1 and 2:

When reading Genesis 1 and 2 in the original Hebrew, it becomes self explanatory.

Genesis 1 Chronological Order of Creation:
-Light and darkness
-The heavens, and water
-Dry ground, oceans, and seas
-Vegetation of all kinds
-Sun, moon, and stars
-Animals, birds, and fish
-Humans

Genesis 2 Topological Rehash and Detailed Version of Man's Creation:
-Verses 1 and 2: Gives a rehash saying all things were at this point created.
-Verse 4: Shows the earth, sky, planets, land, and oceans were already created.
-Verse 5: Shows that vegetation came after the creation of verse 4.
-Also verse 5: Shows that man again came after all of the above steps and that the water God sent tended to the plants because man was not yet in existence.
-Verse 6: NOW man is created after all of the above is already in existence.
-Verse 7: God places the man he created in the garden that was already in existence.
-Verses 8 and 15: Shows vegetation that has already been planted/created growing from the ground to provide sustenance for man.
-Verse 19: God brought the living creatures to Adam that were already in existence (look at the original Hebrew using a lexicon).

Nothing in Genesis 2 contradicts the creation account of the chronological order in Genesis 1. No manipulating the Scripture for we only used the plain text to verify this.



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by JSR
just because you want to be a scientist does not mean you have to throw away everything concerning spirituality. be careful not to become purely logical


Although I know exactly what you mean, allow me to be a pain in the butt for a moment!


Spirituality and logic do not cancel each other out and in fact compliment each other beautifully when utilized correctly. Evolution and spontaneous design? Now that takes a leap of faith I'm not willing to make.



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
You must be referring to a different Bible because mine clearly states plants came before living creatures in the chronological order of Genesis 1.


Nope, I'm referring to the fact that angiosperms appeared on the earth after living creatures. Fruit bearing (flowering) plants only appeared in the last 250ish million years. Living creatures appeared before that.

Your bible is not a science text, honestly. Was it ever meant to be one?



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by melatonin
Nope, I'm referring to the fact that angiosperms appeared on the earth after living creatures. Fruit bearing (flowering) plants only appeared in the last 250ish million years. Living creatures appeared before that.



The apparently sudden appearance of relatively modern flowers in the fossil record posed such a problem for the theory of evolution that it was called an "abominable mystery" by Charles Darwin.


And that's all I'm going to say about this one. Why? Because I feel debating evolution is equivalent to debating the aspects of Peter Pan's life.


Your bible is not a science text, honestly. Was it ever meant to be one?


Honestly? Nope! Which is an obvious given. The Bible, although it displays immense foreknowledge of scientific and medical facts, it is still religious in its theme.

[edit on 1/3/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
And that's all I'm going to say about this one. Why? Because I feel debating evolution is equivalent to debating the aspects of Peter Pan's life.


Heh, a person using a book of myths to determine science compares evolution to a story. I think that's what we call projection.

Animals appeared before seed-bearing plants by at least 200 million years, never mind flowering plants. We also know that birds had to wait for land animals, as they are evolved from them, indeed that's exactly what the evidence shows. Your book of myths is wrong.


Honestly? Nope! Which is an obvious given. The Bible, although it displays immense foreknowledge of scientific and medical facts, it is still religious in its theme


Except it appears to be wrong in the first few pages regarding the appearance of life on earth. If you're happy to wallow in your ignorance, that's cool. But as a site that is based on denying ignorance, I will work within its remit.

As someone whose work is science-related, I would expect better than using canards like the 'tornado in a junkyard'. I'm sure this very eloquent 12 year old will find more knowledgeable sources of science as he/she progesses into their career.

Good luck Killas, a very worthy career. I was about your age when I had the same career motivations, I'm still at it over 20 years later. Whether you be a christian, muslim, whatever, as long as you keep your religious ideology from polluting scientific reasoning and hindering inquisitiveness, you'll do well.

Hwyl fawr.

[edit on 3-1-2008 by melatonin]



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by melatonin
 


According to evolution animals are hundreds of millions of years old and modern man is about 200,000 years old (and we will not even consider how old the supposed human ancestors of modern man are believed to be according to evolution).

Even if we assume a very conservative human population growth rate of 1% (the modern human growth rate is over 2%) and if we consider how animals breed faster and produce more offspring than humans, where are all the creatures? You only think "carbon footprints" are a nightmare! Where is all the evidence in the fossil record?

I read an article years ago from a secular science journal that ran some calculations (you might be able to find something through Google). I had never even considered this but they brought up a good point and it was nice they didn't endorse any presupposed belief like creationism or evolution.

They took into consideration mega natural disasters, plagues, animals consuming each other, and used a conservative population growth percentage. Even using every possible account to justify the lack of a population, they still came to numbers in the trillions for humans and tens of trillions for animals known to mate at a greater speed and product more offspring.

Even secular scientists believe there have been no "mega" disasters in recorded human history (and of course deny the existence of the Biblical worldwide flood). So even if a world wide disaster did occur, it would have occurred very, very long ago which would have given nature every opportunity again to reach the numbers they came up with using mathematics.

This is a fact I cannot ignore and it took secular studies to even bring it to my attention. I had never even considered the question, "Where is everybody?"

Then about ten years ago I read the studies of an author, this time a Christian, who referenced this study and got the idea to see what the population of man would be according to the Biblical date of the flood starting with eight people. The world's population matched this estimate within a few million.

But let's completely ignore the Christian study and focus on the secular study. The current population simply doesn't match up.

[edit on 1/3/2008 by AshleyD]



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