It all comes down to what Ross Perot said (or was it Dana Carvey doing Ross perot on SNL ) "Trickle down economics just doesn't trickle!" We saw the same things happening after Reagan/BushI. This time it's more exascerbated by unfettered "free trade" and the loss of the majority of our high-paid manufacturing jobs.

You're absolutely right Jackinthebox, high crime is the price we pay for low wages and out of control inflation. Every night on the local news out of Orlando all they show is murder, robberies, and carjacking. Violence, violence, violence. This is what happens every time the economy goes to crap. And I'm sure there's someone out there right now thinking to him/herself, "It's not the economy! That's just the way them (insert appropriate derogatory name for any other race here) are!"

Of course, the people who think that way are going to believe what they believe no matter what happens. Crime is a symptom of the greater problem we're having.

Ncbrain211, I’ve invested a lot of money into my bachelors degree and worked very hard for it. I expect to get paid a living wage for this investment. I don’t think setting limits by applying for jobs that pay at least 12.00 an hour or 25,000.00 a year, or disclosing that this is the pay that I would like to receive in my cover letter to prospective employers is causing the illegal immigration problem. The lower paying jobs are a dime a dozen, the higher paying jobs are harder to come by. I was also once a former small business owner and with the cost of running it, I couldn’t even afford to have employees, I had to do all the work myself. Currently, I do have employment, but it involves contract work, and there is no work right now, so I have to look for additional work. And if I have to bend and work for a meager income that doesn’t come close to paying me a living wage, you bet I will complain about it, every step of the way – every American should, it’s ridiculous that we adults are even tolerating it.

But you know what? Actually you’ve given me a great idea, how about if you quit your good paying job, and come join up with me, you and I, hand in hand, can solve this illegal immigration problem by humbling ourselves and cleaning hotels for 6 bucks an hour. Do you think that will solve it? Think about it. Of course it won’t. I am an American, who is here legally, who has served my country, who invested in a 4 year education, worked hard for excellent grades, am an adult way into their late 30’s so I’m not a youngster anymore, and I’m looking for a job that pays not less than 12.00 bucks an hour, or 25,000.00 a year, I have a job, but they seek out contracts and there are no contracts currently – dude, I am basically your friend, but somehow you have blamed me & people like me for this immigration problem. I just don’t get it. But peace to you.

I am teed off at the number of jobs out there that don’t pay a living wage because they far out number the jobs that pay a living wage and up. I am teed off at seeing the tent cities. I am tee-tripleE’d off at the big dogs who manipulate the economy to suite their needs, who throw out only handfuls of bones with some meat on them, so us little dogs can beat each other up in an attempt to get a taste of some of that meat. Please wake up, for all you know, you could be in my position a couple of years from now. I hope you never have to be. And one last thing, I would be more than happy to accept a job that pays 8 bucks an hour if it was comparable to a living wage here in my city, but it’s not, doesn’t even come close. What is demeaning and humiliating to me is not the number itself, 8 bucks, or should I say anything less than 12 bucks an hour, it’s the fact that the pay per hour is not comparable to a living wage here in my community and to be forced into accepting a job that doesn’t pay a living wage, well, it’s just wrong. But people are doing it. People are putting up with it and so the band marches on.

Hey Pjs…I am so excited that you got some work and I checked out the link to the stuff you do. Amazing stone work – looks almost good enough to eat!

I have a question. How would the march on wall street work? I mean, what do you have in mind?

Perhaps now you guys are getting the message that the free market doesn't care if you have a home or not. I suggest you support John Edwards for Prez. He is the only one talking about getting the lobbyists and big business out of government.

That sounds like a good plan, but I personally would be afraid. I say this after having read about the recent police brutality against common citizens in New Orleans. A large group of people had went to a city hall meeting. The meeting was about whether or not to demolish the low income housing projects. The citizens were worried that if they were demolished, they would be left with unaffordable housing. To make a long story short, city hall was filled to the max and not everyone was able to get into the meeting and voice comment, so many gathered outside. Tension broke out and the police started beating and macing the people. One woman who was maced said something like, "this is democracy?"

Just please be very careful. This is wall street your talking about, which is not even comparable to a handful of low income housing being torn down and replaced with more expensive buildings. Wall Street is about big money and if the big money feels threatened, they will be brutal. We are probably being monitored now because we are not really living in a democracy, it's just a word here in the US now, not an action.

Yep, JackinTheBox beat me to it.

I think if the Government fails to have a system where anyone who wants a job can get one, then the least they could do is allow people to live in tents. I think the tent cities highlight a problem that the Government does not want in the spotlight.

I am truly sorry to read about that, SevenThunders!

PJs, while I may feel like I am not living in a democracy because I'm afraid of the brutality against those who attempt to exercise it, democracy is still in existence; although, now days it seems as if it cannot be acted upon without serious physical consequence to the protester. I hope that I have not shattered your hope for the betterment of the lower and middle classes because of my fear. I admire you for having started this thread, your enthusiasm and your ability to be sincere. I am still unclear as to how attempting to shut down wall street will be of any benefit. I am thinking there is a different route to take but I am not sure what it is.

I couldn’t get to sleep because I was worried about you. I wanted you to know a few important things before you decided to actually do anything. Most of which you may already know; I am not sure if you do though.

Before partaking in any peaceful protest, do your best to make sure that in the long run it will benefit or improve society as a whole. Once you have established this, take some time to investigate peaceful protesting techniques. There are various sites on the internet that will give you an idea on how to do it legally and what types of postures to take in order to prevent serious injury to your body if you are physically removed. Protesters have also been known to use goggles to prevent mace from getting into their eyes, but police officers have been trained to reach up under the goggles and spray directly into them.

Take the time to check out the city’s policy on demonstrating. See about permits and so forth. If you need one get one, if you can’t get one, you might have to contact the media to bring attention to as to why a city does not allow for any peaceful public demonstrations.

Make sure you have money set aside to pay for incarceration and fines as well, because you may find yourself, along with your companions, in jail for a few days. From what I’ve read, peaceful protesters are not incarcerated for prolonged periods of time and usually are released on their own recognizance. You may need money to post bail. Also, keep in mind that if you are arrested, you will have a court date at a later time. Having money set aside to pay for your traveling expenses going from your home state back to the state you were charged in, to make your court date will be necessary.

Lastly, checking out other well known groups who have peacefully protested in the past over various issues, like even PETA, yes even them, would give you a good idea on what to expect. They might be able to give you an idea on how to deal with the media, start a campaign – with flyers – getting the word out – raising money - and dealing with the police. They also may have some bright lawyers who work pro bono at their fingertips that you and your group could benefit from. You could do this by doing a “google” search, visiting their website, checking it out, and if it looks like they could possibly give you some advice or help you in anyway, send them an email and start a rapport.

One of the most important things to keep in mind is to always be peaceful – let the police be as brutal as they want to be, but be peaceful yourself. They may put their hands on you, shove you to the ground, speak to you in a demeaning way, push you, yell at you, handcuff you and mace you, but take it with out retaliating back. It is always a good idea to have someone actively recording any public protest because police officers have been known to make false claims about the protester assaulting them. (Assault of a police officer is a felony.) So this all means, no mater what, never act out in violence or verbally threaten and to come prepared with a cam corder or some sort of other recording device. Like I mentioned before, make sure that what you are protesting is something that will be of benefit to all in the long run. Peace

This is a great thread and the story about the tent cities is scary to say the least. The economy is in shambles and it's safe to say that if it involves money in anyway then it's a scam of some sort.

I'm unemployed myself, been that way for a while. I send out resumes, portfolios, business cards, make phone calls, write e-mails, fill out applications and all to no avail. I don't even get an e-mail saying "No". I have to say that there is nothing more disheartening than to feel like you're completely worthless to society. I started with so much determination, lord knows I have enough abilities, but now I feel so dragged down, so empty that I don't even want to think about it most of the time. The only jobs I can find are retail or something horrible like crime scene clean up.

Why am I, a natural born American of sound mind and good health, possessing of many talents and abilities, 25 years of age reduced to deciding between hawking chinese products or cleaning brain matter off walls?????

The worst part is that I can only expect things to get better to a certain point. 30 or 40 years ago a man my age and my health with my brains and skills could expect a well paying secure job, affordable housing and necessities, hell, even friendly neighbors. Today the best I can hope for is a job, that pays something, a tiny condo, maybe an apartment or a construction grade house in a development built on what once was a 40+ acre farm and regular trips to Wal-Mart to buy imported goods.

Homes that once were considered of reasonable size have now been split up into 2, 3, sometimes even 4 family homes because no one can afford to own the whole thing.

People who are lucky enough to still be working are making less and less money but spending more and more to maintain the style of living they enjoyed even ten years ago. As a result people are forced to buy things on credit to support their family which in turn drives them deeper into debt.

I think it is completely obvious to everyone involved that money is nothing more than another means of control and represents absolutely nothing but the meaning which we give it. Money is the yoke around your neck, because of it you will work day in and day out, you will work weekends and overtime, you will work until you die if you're lucky enough to work that long. The more you work the tighter the yoke gets and the longer the line of people going through your paycheck before you get to it.

Bleh, I don't even wanna think about it any more.

Key-Minder

considering that you probably owe a nice sum for that degree you got, well, I can't blame you for not wanting to take an $8 an hour job!! Especially if you have a family.
I kind of wish that everyone would being having the same attitude. I mean, if it takes me this amount of dollars to live, dear future employer, well, you have two choices, either pay me that much, or well, give me the job, and I will run out to social services, and you can pay me the rest, along with a pretty big chunk for the administration, through your taxes!!
either way I live...but well, there's only one way that the economy will survive much longer, can you guess which way that is, oh dear future employer!!

Our government has decided to make the single moms work, doesn't matter how much they make, how many kids they have....
they will pay for the childcare....
which many times, exceeds the wages that are being earned!!!

So, the amount that we are paying out for these single moms is even more than if they were just sitting home, tending to there kids so they can go to their friendly McDonalds resturant and flip cheap burgers for you all to eat!! You are paying for some of their child care, you are paying for their housing, their food, their health insurance, their clothing and travel allowance!! Is that cheap burger really worth it???

Until that is changed, I don't see much of a change coming, there's a nice workforce out there that just wants to get a job, any job, just so they can keep what the government is giving them....and the dear taxpayer is footing an even bigger bill so they can do it. and of course, the business sector will hire them to reduce their costs. Business wins, the american people lose, our freedom and liberty continues to be flushed down the toilet! Life goes on.

At least the government could require that these people get jobs that will cover the additional expenses, like the childcare and travel, and clothing...is that too much to ask?

I am going off topic for a moment. And than maybe not. Anyway, I have noticed while in school for a degree in computers, the school i payed for the degree was intouch with employers all around the school systems reach. The instructors talked freely and I have that kind of mind to place the puzzle in prospective from what I hear.

The school contacted HR departments multi county wide and communicated how important it is to have well trained potential employees and the school with its degreed manufactured potential employees was the place to start for qualified job seekers.

So there were intern positions open for associate degree students and jobs for graduates as well. Than 911 hit and all this fell apart. Jobs dried up and later jobs that needed an associates now wanted bachelors.

Than I looked at the stats for grades previously getting jobs in the trained field. I seen something like (approximate) 58 grades reporting jobs as 5 with computer related positions, 15 with service jobs and the rest no reply so I suspected they were without employment. My heart sank knowing the job market for my skill was cherry picking and this old fella was not going to be picked.

Than I talked with people with degrees working at McDonald's and walmart and places they should not be with there paper of learned gratitude. I finished my desire of school 5 credits short of the degree because I seen it was a waste of time. Why was it a waste of time. because the school was hitting on employers to ramp up there hiring requirements for degreed individuals when really most positions were just not calling for it.

Than I got a job finally as an intern and seen how the degree serves the employer. Besides these degreed people getting big egos and lazy from job security and high pay, I worked to show I was worth more than a degree. I soon realized I knew more than those with bachelor degrees and I did work that was far beneath them even though there job description called for them to perform the work I did they would not.

Than I hear employers are frantic because there is no qualified help in computers and I am looking for a place to work and get over looked at every turn yet hb1 visas are the way to go now and the job market is all over it like stink on foreign degrees..

Ya know what, there is no shortage of qualified workers, its the colleges telling these idiots running HR departments they need degreed individuals for bragging rights. I am a qualified computer geek and ran circles around the people with degrees. And there is not a job in my area for my skill. Thanks to the colleges for making life what it now is.