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The Coming Depression has Begun:Tent Cities have gone up in Suburbs

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posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 01:15 AM
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Utopians are far far worse than religious fanatics will ever be, especially if they genuinely believe in their cause, the more benign they appear the worse they could be.




posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 01:39 AM
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When I read about the children living in tent cities, I thought about my little nephew, and pictured him living in a place like that with no warm bed or brand new toys and I said to myself, how in the hell is our Government gonna allow children to live like that?, I get more and more pissed of at this government every day



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 02:08 AM
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In my area there have been manufacturing jobs leaving or going out of business and what’s replacing them are big box stores, restaurants and hotels and they pay crap. But if you watch a certain news channel they say the economy is just fine. And if you notice it's always rich people who say this.


[edit on 29-12-2007 by UScitizen]



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by pjsconcrete
reply to post by TheoOne
 

Do you mean for the whole country to go on strike? I had another thought, people have been marching on Washington for a long time. Why can't I get a group of people together and march on Wall Street? You could effectively draw people's attention away from Britney Spears and Paris Hilton at least for a little while. If you could effectively shut down Wall Street for a day that might get attention.



Something like that.

The reason why I asked that question, is well, because I've thought of something. I mean, I hear that many of the people aren't too happy with the U/S Government, and how that your income taxes are being used on wars and stuff, right?

If everyone stopped working in U/S, I think that would make a classic revolution, don't you think? Because, if people aren't well happy with government, then why keep working like slaves? Stop working and express your feelings. If you stop working, that means no more income tax money or other money being given to government, right? So...

Just wondering out of question.

[edit on 29-12-2007 by TheoOne]



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 02:52 AM
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I am no economist but I have been warning my friends for a few years now... I don't know that they listened. a week ago a local paper here in oregon calculated a high percentage of locals to lose their homes in the coming months. I am a afraid tent city might be getting close to home. major department stores are now feeling the effects. MACY'S coming out of the best expected sales week of the year and closing 9 stores in 6 states. the snowball that became the avalanche will continue to increase; well at least thats my prediction.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 02:53 AM
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Our government needs change, and its up to us to change it. Our founding fathers new that the government would get out of control from time to time and they gave us the right and the responsibility to bring that change. But were not organized, we need to do something (non violent). The government is like a kid who keeps sticking their hand in the cookie jar, they see they get away with it so they do it more and more, and when they get caught they do it when the parents aren't looking,



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 05:20 AM
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Dawn-

Ahh....if only we had the days of Reagan back! Probably the best President ever....and you're either lying about "trickle-down" economics not working, or you're ignorant.

Lower taxes bring in MORE revenue to the coffers, not less.

Trickle down economics works every time it's tried.

When the "wealthy" benefit, we ALL benefit. Fact, not fiction.

For God's sake, the "wealthy" pay 97% of the income taxes the govt
steals from us...OUR MONEY.

Do the research...find out for yourself that Reagan not only had to preside over decisions to save the planet, and possibly mankind, but the minor issues as well....cutting taxes.

May you rest in peace, Ronaldus Maximus !



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by LiamStemrad
Dawn-

Ahh....if only we had the days of Reagan back! Probably the best President ever....and you're either lying about "trickle-down" economics not working, or you're ignorant.

Lower taxes bring in MORE revenue to the coffers, not less.

Trickle down economics works every time it's tried.

When the "wealthy" benefit, we ALL benefit. Fact, not fiction.

For God's sake, the "wealthy" pay 97% of the income taxes the govt
steals from us...OUR MONEY.


Look at the big picture. Sure, after Bush cut taxes for the first couple of years I did GREAT! I was making $1500/wk. And with all my deductions I didn't have to pay a dime in taxes. What has happened is the tax burden has been shifted from the CEOs (like I was up until a couple months ago) to the working class.

When you are the president of a Corporation, you can pay yourself a pitance of a salary (like I did) and at the end of the year you can take profits out of the business and pay Capital Gains taxes on that with a much lower tax rate. When I was making a lot of money, I paid absolutely very little tax. When I go on payroll working for someone else, over20% of my income will go to taxes.

It's a common misconception that the rich pay the highest taxes, but if you take into account Capital Gains, their (formerly our
) tax rates are much lower that the working Joes and Janes out there. I'm beginning to think that the only fair tax is a flat tax having been in both situations myself.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 07:20 AM
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Great to see all the debate out there!! Thanks for the bonus points MODs!! Pretty cool to see my first thread get all this attention

Anybody out there need a writer, journalist, critical thinker? I'll even wash your car for a couple bucks!



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 07:40 AM
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umm...must be just coincindence then, that the only other time that I've encountered tent cities for the homeless was during reagan's years as president. the price of oil shot through the roof, the economy faultered, unemployment rose, reagan cut taxes to his business buddies, failed to provide help for the rest, the states all decided to send all their unemployed to the one place where there were jobs!@!!...TEXAS- high oil prices overseas was a big perk to them! At the time, too much of their economy was into oil...and they were booming for awhile. Then the price of oil came down, as the masses were enouraged to flock there.....and well, companies began shutting down, many people lost their homes, at one time, we had three friends living with us, till we lost our home. One of these families left to live out in the woods in a tent.....they had a little girl, who the misquitoes loved to feed on.

all you got to do it look at the widening gap between the wealthy and the rest of us to see that the money isn't trickling down!!! how many of the not so wealthy have seen any kind of pay increase since bush cut the taxes for the rich? how about the numbers that are dependent on food stamps, or free meals for thier kids in schools, have they gone up or down? at least some of that money should have trickled down to them, those numbers should have gone down, but I got a feeling that they've gone up!! either that or maybe there are more going hungry in this country. big business isn't passing this money down to their employees...they are using it to build bigger and better office buildings, more malls, bigger homes for themselves, ect....so, more resources are being imported into this nation to feed their desire for more, bigger, and better!

people gripe about how the wealthy are paying more than 90% of the taxes......




The Congressional Budget Office examined tax data for 2005 and found that the highest 1 percent of Americans saw their after-tax earnings rise by an average of $180,000 — more than average families earn in three years. Income for the median U.S. family rose only $400, less than enough to keep up with inflation. The working poor got only $200 more.

After paying taxes, the top 1 percent averaged $1.1 million take-home pay. The top 10 percent averaged $246,000. Families in the middle earned $50,000, while the poorest fifth averaged $15,300.
wvgazette.com...



the top 20% is taking in over half of the income I believe......one fifth, I would venture to say is paying very little, if anything, and quite possibly are more of a drain on the federal budget since, well, many of them are using food stamps, hud and the like to make ends meet... to put it another way.......our tax-money is enabling them to work for their companies, and to produce future workers for these companies. Where would this funding come from if it wasn't from the taxpayers? The companies..maybe? So, the companies profits from the taxpayers paying the tab for their lower income employees, am I right? So, where do these profits end up at, if not with those in the upper income brackets!! So, do you think that me, who is close to that poorest fifth should be paying more, as well as paying for the corporations "poor employees" so that they have the shelter, the food, the medical care that they need to be able to work? or maybe you think that it should be those in the middle, the $50,000 dollar earners, which, by the way, if you add in my husband's income we about come to that....should be paying more?
and while we are arguing who should be paying less, and who should be paying more....ummm...does it even matter? since the government is spending way more than it has coming in on a monthly basis? shouldn't the tax cuts, if they are really tax cuts, be accompanied by decreases in government spending, and NOT INCREASES....especially since many of these increases have been in areas that are geared to aiding these top 20% keep the money they have and create more on top of it?

the money isn't trickling down, it's being held at the top, and is being used to produce more money for the top....and it will continue to be like this until the rest of the population has been cycled into their lovely social services system....then, well, that lovely system will have lost it's purpose and will be cut...to save the top from that expense.....and, we will have a nice slave system in place...

trickle down economics doesn't work unless the money is allowed to trickle down!!!



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 07:55 AM
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I've been able to find many different examples of tent cities. Someone earlier posted that it was an isolated event. Here are some more examples.

King County Washington
www.mrsc.org...

Here is a second one in the Seattle area run by a local church.
www.sjvkirkland.org...

Here is one in Ventura, California.
www.boston.com...

Here is one in Edmonton, Canada
www.cbc.ca...

Of course there's one in New Orleans
www.cbsnews.com...

Cleveland, OH
www.freetimes.com...

Santa Barbara, California
www.hopedance.org...

Juneau, Alaska (wow! that must be cold!)
juneauempire.com...

Here's a report about Denver Colorado

The number of homeless in Denver has risen from 1,985 in 1990 to 9,725 in 2003, according to a study by the Denver Homeless Planning Group. The Denver Human Services Center opened a temporary shelter in its northwest Denver office last year after a homeless man died in freezing temperatures in a city park.

www.cnn.com...

Here's one in Sacramento that had a WAITING LIST to get in.
www.sacbee.com...

Wow, 800,000 homeless in the US. The richest nation in the world! I've learned alot by with this thread. I know that many of those 800,00 people are mentally ill, but if the MSM is reporting 800,000 then you know the number is probably much higher.

I also read a story that 1/4 of our homeless are VETERANS!!! This is all way too shocking.
On a brighter note, I did get a job for next month. So that'll keep me going for at least 2 more months!
Here is a link to pictures of the kind of work I do (not a sales pitch only pictures)

www.flickr.com...



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 08:01 AM
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Been reading this thread and a few thoughts occcured to me.

First I remembered a story from my parents and relatives how the great depression was actually a good time in life. The reason was that people began to really empathize for one another stopped focusing on the stuff and focused on helping each other...caring for each other.

Remember if the crash comes many people consider self destruction. Again within living memory there are so many examples of people who lost everything in the depression in a seemingly hopeless situation who after the crisis passed were able to make their American dream come true beyond their wildest dreams in fact! Remember the Buddist saying "If you feel like you popped you must have been a bubble!"

One other story I heard on the news recently was about the situation in Africa (I apologize but I can't remember the country now). It was about how starvation is forcing people to leave the country to look for work. The bordering country will not allow adults to enter so children are being sent by their parents to look for sustenance some as young as 8 yrs old.
A child was interviewed and it broke my heart. I have an 8 yr old myself and find it hard to imagine such a thing in this world. He collects bottles and cans and sells them for a penny.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 08:02 AM
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My husband and I were discussing last night how different things are now then they were even 2 years ago. Two years ago we would pay bills then we had money left over, to go out to eat once a week, we also had money enough to a new washer and dryer, and many other things needed. At that time we had one child still in diapers.

Our income has still not changed its the same amount of income, with no extras in there for bills. Our youngest is now out of diapers since less then a year ago we couldnt afford to buy them anymore. Yet now we can just barely afford to pay bills. We never get to go out to eat, and there is no way at all we could even think of replacing anything that may be needed if it broke down.

Our lives have gone from being great to being in the poor house literally so yeah the economy is changing, bills are alot more then they once were, and when you have to sit back and wonder where your next meal is coming from you really know there are changes going on.

Hilda



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 08:35 AM
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Ah..

The hyper-inflation has come. It has happened over the last 30 years. Soon we get the massive deflation...

We have been in the great depression 2.0 for the last 3 years. It has just been in ultra-slow motion.

Designed by "Them" to bring about the economic disaster and civil unrest required to create the police state and the one world government. Every other crash and depression has been manipulated by first the independent bankers and then the Central Banking system to consolidate money and power to the "Them".

Our economy is done for. All of you who are qouting "inflation is at 2.4%, production is up blah blah blah". First, turn off Sean Hannity. He is a propagandist. Then, I urge you to research how they come to those numbers. As of 2005 "They" consider making cheeseburgers a manufacturing position. Really.

Inflation rates are based on a fluid set of items that can be changed every time they calculate inflation to make it appear much less than it is. True numbers are closer to 10-15% at the moment. Do not worry though. We can look at the Great Depression v1.0 to see what happens next!!


[edit on 29-12-2007 by Tinhatman]



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by pjsconcrete
 


I see in the near future a massive exitus of major cities and Detroit is just one of the cities you are seeing people leave and this is only the tip of the iceburg of things to come. I have lived in my present residence for 7 years my car was broken into and stripped with $3000.00 in damage and my wife's new bicycle was stolen this year. She had just placed it outside by the front door that is hidden from the street and was getting ready to ride. The thefts occured within a month of each other.

We live in a fairly nice part of town and yes crime does happen, but look on the news lately how many bank and convienent store robories that are taking place daily in this country. People will move away from the major cities because of the increase in crime as more and more people go into the survival mode.

More and more people I feel will move to rural areas to get away from crime and roving gangs. I believe this will be gradual as more and more families will have to move into the same residence with other relatives and family members to make ends meet. More and more folks will have to move to the country to grow their own food unless they have vertical space savings gardens. Seeds I think will become a premium even though they are fairly cheap today. Seeds can be stored in a dry area for a long time without going bad.

Who is in charge of your life today at this very moment in time? The government, banks, corporate America or would you believe yourself. I like to think I am in charge of my own life. For things to change for the better I have to make changes in my own life by making mostly right decisions. I can become the victim or the solution to my own financial crisis. Yes we go thru trials and tribulations in our lives and most of us need help from time to time I understand that but if things are to be it is up to me.

I can wait for the government to bail me out or I can bail myself and family out. Do you know what motivates us more then anything to make changes in our lives it is pain. The pain is not in the physical sense it is the mental pain and if the pain is great enough we are forced to make changes. The pain of being out of a job, losing a business, seeing your family do without and suffer, the pain of not being able to pay your bills, losing your home, no gas for the car, losing the car to repo and not enough food for the family. This is the real pain that makes us take a different course of action.

Many of us are lulled into thinking someone else will fix my financial problem due to the economy. We wait until the very last minute of the last hour to try to do something about our situation, and oh yes I have been guilty of this same scenario. We go into what I call mental Paralysis and do absolutely nothing and lose everything. Again this was me and I lost everything. If I have to take 2 lower paying jobs so be it to make ends meet. You may be thinking a lot of people are out of a job but lets think for a moment 90% plus presently still have a job so yes there is still hope. We can become part of the problem or part of the solution. No I am not writting a book I am living one. Rik Riley



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 10:00 AM
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reply to post by dawnstar
 


I just decided to ignore the Regan was great comment My husband and I were young adults starting our family when Reagan was president, Oh boy, do I remember the Regan years!!!!!!!!!!!


Regan ws no president he was an actor playing president on the biggest role of his life, he actually open the door to corporate take ove and the corruption on capitalism we see today


Yes, but I can not deny he was great to the military at the time.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by Realtruth

Originally posted by radardog

To the OP and others, I am sorry your businesses failed, but in any economy, most small businesses do fail. If worse comes to worse, put down your pride and work for 10%; 10% of any number is better than 0 imo. Especially if you have a family to support.



Here's the problem with your thought process, yes people can work for less but the economy/taxes/government spending was set up for people earning higher wages.

This has nothing to do with pride. You can't squeeze blood out of a stone.

People can't pay what they do not have, hence governments will fail in the USA due to not being able to finance themselves off of industry/taxes/ and the people working.

Think about it.


Here is the bottom line.

A nation CANNOT levy taxation on its people and expect to live in prosperity. That is the fundamental issue.. we tax the hell out of our people, while people believe compared to the world we have a "low" tax rate.. we have our income tax, then we have our social security tax which is... at least for me.. bigger then my income tax, and you cannot claim that as a mark off on your taxes. Its like two income taxes. Then you have property taxes which, at least in my area rise every year by about 1-2% to pay for our POS school system which is.. quite honesly pathetic to say the least.

Then we have tax on gas, we have tax on every sale, which when added up throughout the year is A LOT.. 7% on everything you buy in my area.

Then there is a tax on food, even fast food! ..

Tax for medicare, medicaid,

Tax for every little license and various fines..

And then, on top of ALL of the taxes (I only named about 2% here) you will be driving down the high way at 73 mph trying to get to work on time so you can pay the electric bill (which has risen through the roof) and you get pulled over by a cop, who doesn't give a rats arse that your already in financial trouble, and couldnt care less that any moron can drive a car at 73 mph and gives you a ticket, which puts your meager checking account back another $150.



Meanwhile....

Corporations get tax BREAKS when they move into a new area, and are kept low so they stay. And when they stop giving employees raises and hoard the money for themselves, the government applauds it because it shows "a strong economy" when corporations get wealthier ..

Capitalism is not an evil. A capitalist society that also wants to be a socialist society and taxes they people to death to pay for stupid over expenses, a bloated useless government, wars that bring nothing for this country and an incompetent legislative government that is so out of tune to her people that the separation of "People" and "Government" is dangerously large and could lead us down a path many nations before us have gone.

My $0.02



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by hildar
 


Hildar you are absolutely correct
I used to be a materialistic consumer, I went shopping ALL the time about 2-3 years ago my "hobby" started wreaking havoc on my marriage so I began to wean myself off my addiction. After my initial distress of not being able to purchase that watchamacalit that we so desperately did not need I began to realize that life was not about having the latest and the greatest so I put my energy into my family and learning about the world around me.

So 2-3 years ago I had 2 children in diapers and 1 in prek, I shopped all the time, we made less money back then but we were not even nearly as close to broke as we are now. I started wondering where in the hell our money was going, if I am not shopping and we only buy necessities why are we juggling bills and bouncing checks? The only answer that I can come up with is the slow inflation that is happening and when I sit down and do the math it is the case. Groceries, gas and electricity are the culprits in our home. Electricity went up 25% this year, groceries are out of control and we clip coupons obsessively and gas, it takes at the very least just from home to work $110 a week.

On the grocery topic, if we wanted to feed our family mac and cheese and little debbie snacks we probably wouldn't have such an issue but since we want our family to eat meals and snacks with a bit of nutrition like whole wheat bread, fruits and veggies, milk and eggs well our bill is higher because these do not come with coupons and the prices have gone up and up and up. But even if we weren't concerned about nutrition the other crap has still gone up this year by .25 or more.

The middle class is being systematically wiped out, they are starting with the lower middle class and working their way up. The "subprime" debacle was just another way to label and classify the lower middle class and blame an entire economic crisis on "those" people. And it worked, I have friends who make $100k and more a year, they blame everything on those "subprimers" not realizing that they are next, that they are only one ring up on the food chain.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 10:59 AM
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great topic guys also good job staying on topic when people try to deflect it my take is that the bottom line is this

the banksters IMO need to re-inflate the housing market or we will have a great depression, albeit one that progressively gets worse over time (not a one week crash)

they may try to use the European Central Bank more than the fed to carry out these operations (they need to create high inflation) not 5%,but possibly 10-12 %, this inflation will be different from late 90's early 00's inflation, as inflation will spill over into retail more, and also food and insurance (like it has in last few years) The need to create higher inflation is this

When investors realize inflation is high......they seek flight into something called "hard assets" not paper one's. this includes REAL ESTATE also gold. Rising real estate values will help sustain the CREDIT GAME at least this is the theory

and yes there has been high credit inflation and insurance inflation but not so much "fiat money" creation. credit money can vanish as fast as bond's are downgraded and bank capital and lending capacity's evaporate. fiat money creation when cranked up shown as (MZM) not M3 get's investors to move into things that are tangible. this maybe the trigger event that brings about a all credit society eventually. it would sort of be a " tidal wave event" the first wave taking out the lower class and lower middle class primarily thru a spike/ rising inflation (in 08) and then instead of a trough behind the wave a continually rising infation more gradually when the upper middle class are taken out by collapsing asset values (not necessarily prices when compared to cost of living expenses. this later period of inflation would likely end with destruction of fiat currency's and hyper infation. If real estate can NOT be REINFLATED a massive deflationary collapse will be likely.

You can bet the media will play a major role in getting some of this "hot money" back into the real estate markets both in the u.s and abroad where markets may collapse as well.

IF THEY fail to rapidly slow the FALL of Real Estate Values and then fail to re-inflate them, then consumer spending will fall, and then unemployment will fall, and this cycle will continue until the words "DEATH SPIRAL" no longer seem Alarmist.

of course, the cost of this inflationary policy will see people who are not employed or able to extract more equity from there home, going hungry(ER) because of rising food costs, rising cost of clothing, "walmart goods" and the like

not sure how long these real estate values could be sustained it maybe just to keep the level of "disorder" on a level that is below chaos i.e threating the power elite

if house nominal prices can not be raised by these policies or they are not enacted there may be a Deflationary crash that will bring about a new world as we know it, along with draconian rules, and authoratarian rule (sooner than other scenarios').

either way millions will suffer. history is redundant with examples that mirror this, don't think we are immune. if you choose to bury your head in the sand, until the dark winds of reality blow it away i honestly don't blame or judge you.



[edit on 29-12-2007 by cpdaman]



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Your 2 cents is worth every penny. Trillions of dollars of taxes have been levied against the people of The United States Of America and our government spending is totally out of control. We have got right back into the situation of massive taxation from the country we were trying to get away from known as England.

Start a tax free zone in America and this tax free zone would become the number one making money region in the country over nite. Incredible building and prosperity would flourage and the rest of the country would become ghost towns. Rik Riley




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