The Coming Depression has Begun:Tent Cities have gone up in Suburbs

reply to post by horsegiver


I agree HG

The powers that be would rather look stupid and incompetent than to look like criminals for the very reason you mention... to avoid jail AND to keep the sheeple fooled. The very idea that they are stupid is crazy! The law of averages would dictate that every once in a while something would go our way. I dont see that happening at all! In fact I cant remember the last time something went in favor of the little guy.

Originally posted by radardog

With the whole housing fiasco, people are missing the forest for the trees. Overall, the US is producing more, becoming wealthier. Holiday sales were up, although on the lower end of the increase, people are buying Link. The GDP continues to grow Link.

All smoke and mirrors my friend. Idiots buying on credit and money they don't have, this includes governments, business, individuals. That is the reason for this whole thread and Tent Cities.

US is producing more??? US wealthier?

Two things in life I have found to be same, Lies and Statistics, then there is the media feeding the BS to the masses.

I don't need to look at some BS stats to know the real truth, just open my eyes and look at how many houses and business are boarded up in my area.





[edit on 28-12-2007 by Realtruth]

I love this web site & like many of you check it often, mostly for entertainment, but occasionally to get the news. This is by far one of the most important post and critical issue we all face in the USA right now (including the health care crisis where nearly 50,000,000 have no insurance, and of those who are insured it's not adequate--someone needs to start a thread on this one and how insurance companies are ripping off people and using outright deception and fraud to sell bogus or non adequate policies).

One reason that economic collapse will effect us much more severely as a nation this time around compared to the one in the 30's with the Hoover Republicans et.al. is that back then approximately 80% of the population lived in rural settings where they had ready access to means of self sustainability (milk from the cow, eggs from the hen, ham from the pig, and corn from the garden etc...). Today 80%, or so, now live in metropolitan areas, and according to a FEMA representative I spoke with (that was about 7 years ago or so) on average in America, there is only a 3 day food supply, and this includes what is in everyone's fridge, and cupboards, including what is on the store shelves at your local grocer...3 DAYS!!! Average would also include those who live in country, so if you only look at the city dwellers, it's even more dismal. My point being, in a very short time, if the system breaks down, we have chaos. Look at Katrina and the awful (bush alcoholic & coke head mentality of a day late and a dollar short) response we saw there and we might get some idea of how long it will take to get all the soup kitchens up and running to relieve the hunger.

The scary thing is that so many people will spend all their precious time praying to their dead gods to intervene rather than planing ahead and getting in and helping their fellow human beings. We ought to begin planning now for a time where we won't be driving nearly as much if at all, where we will be growing some of our own food in our back yards. Where we will be needing some alternative form of power generation because we may not be able to stay connected to the grid and/or the grid may not even be operational in some areas. Also ability to guard our residencies against attack by the scores of hungry who will be roaming in search of something to eat. However, we put into place the needed resources and programs now we might not need that protection because the problem wouldn't be there.

Is anyone in governments who is running for election even talking about these things? Would anyone even want to hear it?

I think the big mistake this nation made was in naming that big body of water that cuts down through the mid section the Great Mississippi, when we all know it's really de-nile.....(drum beat) Seriously though, try bringing this topic up to someone next time your at a bar, coffee shop or waiting for a flight, and watch how their eyes kind of gloss over as though they are in a hypnotic stupor...then they fade away having lost all interest in what you were talking about entirely...if they don't just get up and walk away, they will most likely say something like "yeah, yeah..." and then just politely change the subject.

We have to change the minds of these poor victims of the cult called American consumer culture, and get people to see reality. PEOPLE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT THIS NOW, not tomorrow, but RIGHT NOW! This is very serious imho.

reply to post by Realtruth


I think he got a littler bit confused when it comes to the figures of the holiday spending, Actually markets analyst said that the holiday spending was on the red and many big department store didn't do as good.

The Technology sector was the only one to perform to 100% but they are the only stocks that are on the good side lately anyway.

As in his own link on the spending you are very much right.

Credit card spending is not way to measure the economic well being of the nation taking into consideration that the last report on credit spending has US citizens spending more that they can afford.

So all that spending with money that doesn't exist.

SpendingPulse, a report released by MasterCard, had projected spending to rise 3.5 percent to 4.0 percent over last year's holiday season. Excluding gasoline, which cost about 30 percent more than last holiday season, spending rose 2.4 percent.

From the link, and for the GDP already the warning has been posted in the financial markets that this time no even the government will be able to claim domestic grow when the figures comes out next month.

Another indicator of our nations producing power no in existence right now.



[edit on 28-12-2007 by marg6043]

This the figures that any American should be worry about and the legacy to the future of our children.

$9.13 trillion- the current total of the U.S. National Deficit

$1.4 billion- a day, $1 million every minute- the rate the national debt is expanding

$30,000- owed by every person (including infants) in the U.S.

$5.1 trillion- the amount the debt has risen since January 2001 when George W. Bush took office

$9.82 trillion – the amount the democratic congress recently raised the debt ceiling to

$430 billion- total interest on the national debt last year

$2.4 trillion – estimated cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan over the next decade

Past, Present and Future Projected Debt…

35%- the amount of national debt as a percentage of GDP in 1975

65%- the amount of national debt as a percentage of GDP in 2007

350%- the estimated amount of national debt as a percentage of GDP in 2050

Foreign Ownership of U.S. Debt

$2.23 trillion – the amount foreign governments hold of U.S. Debt, up 9% from 2006

$610 billion- Japan

$407 billion- China

$210 billion- U.K.

$123 billion- Oil Exporters

www.economyincrisis.org...

Figures can be manipulated but the truth will set this nation free.

reply to post by marg6043


Great post on the debt numbers! This was my first thread and it's nice to see the reaction I'm getting! I went into it figuring I'd be torn apart. Looks like not though. I guess when the truth is on your side, there's not much that can be said against it except lies, disinformation, and sloppy math.

I love this site for all of it's hysterical reaction to any news whatsoever.
I think the current economy is fine outside of home sales going through a glitch. I make and save more money than I ever had up to this point.

I feel bad for any of you going through uncertain times in your personal life but I don't think your forecasts of gloom and doom are realistic.

I also sometimes think that in a conspiratorial sense some of you may not be who you pretend to be and you actually post negative things with a definite agenda in mind.

Those who think the economy is doing fine are merely parroting what we have all been told over and over again, and they have no reason to believe otherwise because the harsh reality has not reached them yet. People simply don't realize until it's too late. To all those who defend the economy, the check is in the mail. You are next on the list to be legally robbed of everything you own. Just because you defend the system does not make you immune.

Make no mistake. Our economy is a deliberately perpetrated conspiracy to enslave us and funnel all resources to the elite. I posted a thread about this a while back, but after a lively discussion it has since died off. Please stop by at Do Not Watch This Video... and follow the link for an insightful presentation.

[edit on 12/28/0707 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by berbalang


Well if you feel that my information is wrong you are welcome to discredit my sources any time.

reply to post by berbalang


Your attitude is exactly what the MSM and the powers that be, want you to have. The "everything is fine because I don't see doom and gloom around me" is as old as history, and is really tiresome. The blind optimist lives in such a sheltered world. Do you ever even wonder what happens to people when they are forced out of there house? Probably not.

If you what to believe everything is "peachy keen", circling around people that have it "made" all the while avoiding the people around you that are really suffering from this economic collapse, that is your choice and that's fine, but I will not feel sorry for you if and when reality enters into your home at all.

" I love this site for all of it's hysterical reaction to any news whatsoever.
I think the current economy is fine outside of home sales going through a glitch. I make and save more money than I ever had up to this point. "

If all else stays equal you are most likely correct. However, given the previous postings here and the figures, the possibility that the debt could be called in by the Chinese, or that oil goes up more, or that more dump the dollar for the Euro and other currencies to trade oil in now, or that we have run away inflation and all that money you saved becomes almost worthless in a worst case scenario.

Here's another little nugget: consider that back in the 30's when everyone had their savings in the bank and upon the run on the banks and ultimately bank failure (banks had a huge amount invested in stocks, so when the market crashed, the banks suffered) the people lost all of their savings over night. Well then the F.D.I.C was created to ensure that this would never happen again. Only now the bulk of the public's savings is no longer in savings accounts, but instead in investment funds such as Fidelity and hedges or 401 k's etc...and this is not backed up by the F.D.I.C.

In the roaring 20's nobody believed that a great depression was even possible, yet it happened, and it wasn't the first one either, nor will it be the last. At least on one positive note, there were a few people who continued to do well during these economic downturns. Perhaps during the next one, some of us who continue to remain in denial, or who keep heads buried in the sand will be one of these people who will remain unaffected..."let us pray..."

reply to post by berbalang


Are you insinuating that I'm some kind of plant? I'll provide you with the flickr website of my concrete company's pictures if that's what you want. I assure you, I am a small business owner in central Florida. I think it's the facts that you're afraid of. That they could shatter the comfy bubble of mindless entertainment and consumerism.

Look at the facts (all the facts not just the ones that are easy to digest). You'll see the truth then.

reply to post by skyshow


I agree, is a reason why the feds keep pumping money into the markets, it didn't help so the next step was to have all world banks do the same, all this money is actually no even real but it helps keeps the banks afloat this time.

But how long it will take for the banks to made up for their loses?

The problem is that is no actually working at all, because now more and more companies are coming forward with littler dirty secrets that their investors didn't know about it, they were up to their necks into the housing markets also.

This is awesome:

"I think it's the facts that you're afraid of. That they could shatter the comfy bubble of mindless entertainment and consumerism. "

So what you are saying is that as a small business owner that was at one time successful that you also lived in a comfy bubble of entertainment and consumerism?

How do you know that I do? It could be that I am very frugal and do not spend my money on the "bubble".

It seems that you have (and not just you) have decided quite a bit about me in the few sentences that I wrote.

Also, I really don't see any economic misery in anyone I know. Either in work or family. I know people that work in factories, construction, technology, medical, farming, scientific, and service industries and the only person I know out of those HUNDREDS of people that is out of work is out of work because he fell asleep on the job too often.

Maybe the entire metro I live in is in some sort of fantasy bubble. I guess it would be impossible for me to know because you know better than I.
I'll just take your word on it from now on, WE ARE DOOmED!

Obviously the depression has not hit yet berbalang. Nobody is saying that. What we are saying is the signs are here, that it isn't as rosey as "official" reports suggest.

I was watching C-Span a few months ago in the middle of the night and they were (congresspeople) having hearings on the economy and one guy got up (I can't remember who, but I do remember he was a Republican) and gave testimony that his office could not go with the official US figures regarding inflation that does not take into account energy and other factors. Anyway, he went on to say, using the old system (circa Ford, Carter, Reagan) inflation would be around 12% (compared to the small 3% or something like that that the Gov. currently is trying to push on us), and using his office's corrected formula was way higher than this (I think around 20% or so)...and he said he was being conservative. He was a New Republican Order (I made that up lol) Republican no less. Can you imagine what a liberal Democrat might have come up with?

So we are trying to get some recognition (perhaps I should just speak for myself) here that things are not as hot and toasty as the Bushies and big political elites want us to believe.

Look, it really boils down to this ole cliche'. regarding the upcoming depression, it's not a matter of if, it's one of when. We are trying to speculate if it (present downturn) will be merely a recession, or will it be a depression and when will it be. If so, I think it would be prudent to begin thinking about how we might weather the storm, and face the fact that federal reserve notes could become much less valuable in a very short amount of time, and this means anyone who has saved could be corrected and brought down to earth a little...personally I think we could do with a little less snobby behavior and definitely could do with out the hummer and these gas guzzling SUV's and frivolous airline flights at rock bottom prices. A correction might help us sober up some and become a little more less waistful. The environment could sure use a break as temperatures keep climbing up (in many areas crops now are being planted weeks earlier than before in order to harvest before the crushing heat waves that now regularly come in late July and August....). With a global depression, I would imagine there would be a lot less carbon gases going up in the air as everyone starts to power down. maybe I'll be able to breath a little bit better with less exaust fumes in the air as I walk (yes we can do that) around town.

Also we now have 300 million people living here. What was it during the 30's? Isn't it way past time that the church start supporting family planning? god help us all for what's to come!

[edit on 28-12-2007 by skyshow]

[edit on 28-12-2007 by skyshow]

The inflation in the 30's was astronomical compared to what we have now. Also, didn't inflation follow after the market crash and not before? I could be wrong about that. The inflation rate in the late 70's was considerably worse than it is now. There are places to find that information.

Sure, things could be getting worse. Economics seem to go in cycles like that. Some theorists even believe depressions are cyclical. The problem I find with information like this is that people in Florida and California have to understand that there is a reason why the housing market is so freaking bad there.

The market speculation was (and is) insane in those two states because the thinking is that quite an amount of the baby boomer generation will retire there and they are just now reaching retirement age.

What happened is that the developers built way more than they could sell. This happens all the time in economics. Where you start having issues is when just about everyone is building far more than they can sell.

If you study current production methods a late 1920's model of over-production is nearly impossible these days because nearly every industry is now able to keep production running at just about the right inventory. They may be a little ahead or behind in demand but they are never ending up with millions of products wasting away in warehouses as manufacturers saw at the end of the 20's.

When they couldn't sell, they couldn't make money. They had the biggest loans out on the banks and defaulted. Banks pulled their resources and screwed individual borrowers. Stock Market collapsed. It was a fairly progressive thing.

In our current scenario I don't see anything similar. I see one industry floundering. One industry cannot take down all industries. Most people I know DO want to buy a new house but they are waiting for them to bottom out. I know I am. Why should I buy a house for 20 grand more than it is worth? You know?

Regardless, for those of you in dire economic conditions - my apologies for you and your families. I hope that things will turn around for you.

[edit on 28-12-2007 by berbalang]

I have been saying this for a while now... when the cost of staples (needs not wants i.e food, H2O, heat, shelter) inflates upwards of 25% in a 12 month period we are in serious trouble. And if you dont believe me go to your local Walmart and try to find their generic $1 products they had last year, you cant find them because they are now $1.25. Inflation is the reason people are losing their homes, we are being nickel and dimed and at the end of the month we have nothing left. It's not obvious because it's only a .25 here .50 there but when you add that all up it comes to hundreds of dollars esp. if you have a family (more than 1 mouth to feed).
Average household income in America is around $50,000, for a family of 5 that breaks down to about $1450 every 2 weeks after insurance, state and federal taxes and SS. So lets break that down shall we.... I live in the suburbs of Atlanta, Ga. which is about the middle of the road for averages so...
Average home price $175,000 mortgage (with a 5.75% interest rate ) $1260
or rent on a 2+ bedroom apt average $1000 or home average $1250
Car payments (I will use mine but they are very low as far as car payments go)
$188 2003 minivan
$225 2001 tahoe
$150 electricity (on all electric home)(which has gone up .25% since last year)
$140 car insurance
$55 H2O

So just for necessities we are at $882 left over each month to purchase all the staples like food, gas etc. that breaks down to $220. a week. I didn't even figure into this a quality of life, entertainment, CC bills, cable, dsl, recreation, kids, clothes, etc.
Do you see how all those nickels and dimes are breaking us?
On a grand scale all the staples in our lives, the needs not the wants have gone up at least 25% but we didn't get that 25% raise this year, do you see why we are all scratching our heads each month wondering where the $$$ went???
Why we are always having to juggle bills around just to keep from being foreclosed or repossessed?
why if we are juggling and we are 1 month behind on everything we are all precariously standing on the edge of homelessness??
Used to be said that most were a paycheck away from being homeless now it's a few dollars away.

reply to post by berbalang


Well I live in a small town USA, one of the things that I can see in my very nice comfortable neighborhood is the amount of foreclosures that five years ago was unconceivable as everybody in my neighborhood are hard working Americans.

Both my neighbors has been hit with foreclosures and are now gone, plus houses that will no sell and sit with their sale sign up to a year.

This is the first sign of an economy in trouble.

This is the Consumer Price Index, provided by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. It is represented in 1983 dollars. You can plainly see that the cost of goods has skyrocketed.


This chart represents the percentage change for wages.


Get the picture?



[edit on 12/28/0707 by jackinthebox]

Having been involved and watching of the US economy for some number of years, a few definitions come to mind...

Inflation - What occurs when there is too much money in circulation.
Recession - People have money, but refrain from spending.
Depression - When people dont have money to spend.
Stagflation - When FED actions no longer stimulate the economy.

I am no economist, but I see several flavors of a few of those developing.

And logic tells me that when FED actions can no longer stimulate positive movement in the economy when it is on a downtrend, the next action would be to at least try to restrain inflation the only way the FED knows how. By raising interest rates as required by the level of inflation.

And even today, I spoke with my personal bank manager. He suggested as I have read in several publications of educated resource, "yes, the bottom is not here yet, and is well on the way. And it aint gonna be pretty". And yet, he is eager to lend me money as I see fit.



I feel for those suffering hardship for whatever reason or cause, I really do. I have been there too before.

And all I can suggest is to be strong, dont quit, and persevier the best you can.