The Coming Depression has Begun:Tent Cities have gone up in Suburbs

Ugh, that's the problem really, is that most everyone who still has a house, or place to live is still reading the paper and watching the tv news, and believing the smoke screen. It's much more pleasant to believe the pretty version of reality with all the shiny charts and safe predictions.

For those of us who are paying attention, what are we supposed to do about it?

I witnessed an interesting conversation last month. A family member of mine had seen the Zeigeist movie and not having ever heard of any of the concepts discussed before that she was very disturbed. I heard another family member assure her that everything is fine. She explained the theory about the Fed Res and the powers that be purposefully crashing the economy. "That's a F-ed up theory," he said. He wasn't even curious, because it was so outside of his bubble that he couldn't conceive for a second it might be true.

Right now we are talking about this to each other, and I'm telling my family and friends what I've heard. In a year or so when things become painfully obvious everyone in the media is going to be pretending that they were telling us/warning us all along only the story will be about incompetence and folly. Those of us who have been paying attention will know that it was no accident.

Originally posted by radardog

To the OP and others, I am sorry your businesses failed, but in any economy, most small businesses do fail. If worse comes to worse, put down your pride and work for 10%; 10% of any number is better than 0 imo. Especially if you have a family to support.

Here's the problem with your thought process, yes people can work for less but the economy/taxes/government spending was set up for people earning higher wages.

This has nothing to do with pride. You can't squeeze blood out of a stone.

People can't pay what they do not have, hence governments will fail in the USA due to not being able to finance themselves off of industry/taxes/ and the people working.

Think about it.

Originally posted by AmethystSD
"That's a F-ed up theory," he said. He wasn't even curious, because it was so outside of his bubble that he couldn't conceive for a second it might be true.

ive been trying to explain black market economics (and zeitgeist-type subjects) to my parents, friends and family for over a decade now. it's a touchy subject, and rarely gets anywhere. Mind boggling, but maybe I'm just not good enough at debating and persuasion yet. I'll get there one day.

[edit on 28-12-2007 by scientist]

Originally posted by Realtruth
People can't pay what they do not have, hence governments will fail in the USA due to not being able to finance themselves off of industry/taxes/ and the people working.

Think about it.

You should think about it also. Just because I'm selling 10 less widgets a day doesn't mean another person isn't selling 10 more widgets a day. Also if the larger corporations are gathering the market share, they are most likely taxed at a higher rate. Government still keeps its share.


With the whole housing fiasco, people are missing the forest for the trees. Overall, the US is producing more, becoming wealthier. Holiday sales were up, although on the lower end of the increase, people are buying Link. The GDP continues to grow Link.




[edit on 28-12-2007 by radardog]

reply to post by karlkar


Thanks for pointing out the eye opening articles. While I (luckily) am not in a situation where my home is at stake, I am following this crisis closely, as I could very easily be put into a situation where my home is at stake.

I find it fascinating that I have not heard of more stories such as this. With the way mortgages are chopped, diced and sliced these days, there may be many more people out there who now have a glimmer of hope of keeping their home.

Also of note, and very important to mention, is that many people want to work towards a solution to keep their home, but can't find out who to talk to. Try talking to the bank, you get a run around and told to talk to someone else. Go talk to someone else, you are either told to talk to yet another 'someone else' or to go back to the bank etc. etc.

I think the real problem is very simple. Banks are allowed to loan out money they can't actually cover, and then collect insane amounts of interest on that money that never existed, or they can foreclose and take tangible goods bought with real money, because of a debt of money that never existed.

So they are basically creating money out of thin air, causing inflation and taking away homes all at the same time. Perhaps I'm just very naive or taking a too simplistic approach. I'll admit, I'm not a CPA, and a bit out of my element in relation to real estate. I like traveling and moving around too much to jump on the property ladder just yet.

[edit on 28-12-2007 by scientist]

Originally posted by radardog

You should think about it also. Just because I'm selling 10 less widgets a day doesn't mean another person isn't selling 10 more widgets a day. Also if the larger corporations are gathering the market share, they are most likely taxed at a higher rate. Government still keeps its share.


With the whole housing fiasco, people are missing the forest for the trees. Overall, the US is producing more, becoming wealthier. Holiday sales were up, although on the lower end of the increase, people are buying Link. The GDP continues to grow Link.




[edit on 28-12-2007 by radardog]

If you look closely at the link you provided, it includes gasoline sales, which has gone up faster than inflation in the last year. It also does not take into account the rate of inflation. According to the numbers you provided earlier we would have a negative growth.

At the supplier where I buy my products, their sales have gone down 75% in the last 6 months. That means that people are buying 75% less of the products required to make "widgets" (or in this case, decorative concrete). That is a sign of a MAJOR problem in the home improvement industry, not just an isolated incident of my company is just not doing well.

reply to post by scientist


When you think about it, it's not only fraud that the banks are committing when they foreclose on homes, but they also commit theft. Since the original investors are only entitled to the cash flow that their investments create and are not actually owners of the properties that their money pays for, when the banks go to seize the homes as if they are the actual owners, when in actuality they do not possess or can provide a contract between the bank and the borrower, they are committing theft. Crazy!

I lived in a "tent city" in the early 90's before there was a housing crisis.

Homelessness wasn't considered unfortunate for people then. We were called pigs and worse by the police, and treated as scum. Probably by some of the same people who are now living in tent cities themselves.

How the worm turns.

The system the banks have for home buyers was well thought out and has its "back doors" for times like these.

The banks have every conceivable way figured out to get theirs and make sure if you fold in the process of them getting theirs guess what? They get theirs and then some!

reply to post by scientist


I think that you are absolutely right Scientist, politicians and company managers the world over, prefer to appear to be incompetent and guilty of poor judgement. Closer to the truth, is that guile, cunning and unadulterated criminality is most likely, but then incompetence and stupidity dosn't normally carry a jail sentence.
Everything's normal,
Horsegiver.

I've been one in the past who has argued for the economy in threads like this...but I can no longer do so in good conscience. Although my area doesn't have an unemployment problem yet, prices have skyrocketed on just about everything. Inflation is much much higher than what is being reported.

One good example I noticed at the store the other day that shocked me was the price of a 2-liter of soda. Just a few years ago they were 99 cents and sales took them down around 79 cents quite often. The going rate for a 2-liter now in my area if $1.89. I've seen that with just about every consumable I buy.

reply to post by BlueTriangle


How about the price of milk? It's 5.00$ a gallon here now. There's a saying, "as goes Florida, so goes the nation." Name brand soda here is 1.99/2liter. Loaf of bread (good bread, not chemical filled white bread) is 2.99$-3.59$ depending on where you shop.

Most of our food now comes from Mexico and China. Farmers here are being paid (with our tax dollars) to not grow food, because it's cheaper in Mexico and South America. As the dollar continues its fall, all of our imported goods will get more expensive.

I forgot to mention, also more dangerous as we are seeing with all the other imports from China.

[edit on 28-12-2007 by pjsconcrete]

everybody else speaking of being unemployed:

I'm unemployed as well. I got laid off from work in August
as an Office Manager due to no work for the small business.
I drew unemployment for 17 weeks and have applied for over 40
positions since. I haven't even got an interview with a single one.
I don't live in my house anymore. My family moved out of it and we
rent it out to make the mortgage payment and we live in a small
run-down shack which we refurbished with scrap lumber and a tin
roof. we don't have central air or heat. we do have running water
and electricity and phone and that's it. That will be turned off soon
since I have no source of income to pay the bills or buy food for
my 2 kids and wife. Times are really bad. The worst I have ever
seen in my lifetime. I've even thought about ending it all and let my
family collect the insurance money to stay afloat thru this crisis.
But I don't have any hope for this nation at present nor me or my family.
All the while Bush sits in his heated White House and does absolutely
nothing to help folks like us. I guess we're just part of that 500
Million population cutback in the NWO. Hey, at least I know my
place in it all. Me and my family are supposed to perish. And
nobody gives a damn.

Originally posted by scientist
I agree. Unfortunately, my opinion is that we are in this current state by design, therefore any solutions you may have in mind are probably trivial compared to the gears already in motion.

Originally posted by grover
I don't have the faith in the government that you do scientist...

I really find it hard to believe they have the brains to plot, muchless carry out such a wholescale scheme... I think its good old fashioned incompetance coupled with a flawed ideology (the Republican anti-regulation, big business at any cost) and good old fashioned greed.

I agree with both of you to some degree. Scientist, I believe we are in this state because of the actions taken by Bush Co. most specifically, but I am sure not exclusively, the money we poured into Iraq and all the other facets of the war on terror.

The majority of this money went to big business, like KBR, Haliburton, etc. Bush Co thought that although we spent a bundle, obviously more than we could afford, it would 'feed' the economy to have the big guys makeing more money. BEEEEEEEP - WRONG

This is where I begin to agree with grover. They did not do this intentionally, I think they really believed their half-baked economic policies would better the nation.
In the words of Grover himself (herself?) "I think its good old fashioned incompetance coupled with a flawed ideology (the Republican anti-regulation, big business at any cost) and good old fashioned greed."

Still, I am often wrong, one of the side efects of being so opinionated, but this is my Not So Humble Opinion =)

reply to post by SimonSays


There is a solution. Stop. Just plain stop. Pay lights and water, and live on what you have stored up. Don't pay the bank, don't make the credit card payment, don't pay make the car payment, don't pay the dentist, and the florist, and the newspaper delivery, and the repair shop, and the finance company, and all the rest.

If enough Americans could get together in their own conspiracy, we could shut it down. A month of hoarding and stockpiling, and then two months of no work, no gas purchases, no grocery purchases, no Wal-Mart, no anything, and the bastards would be groveling.

And it will come to that. No, Americans don't have the backbone to do it in a planned way, to force them while we still have the ability to be something besides the victim. But it will come to that, because you can't burden the donkey with but so much before it lays down and dies.

Hard times are coming. Bet your silk underwear on that. But because Americans as a whole are so divided, the big boys will ride it out. They couldn't ride out a passive economic attack where everyone stopped being a consumer, but as long as it is a little at a time, they can ride the tiger.

The problem is really that the tiger has forgotten that it is the tiger.

reply to post by NGC2736


ABSOLUTELY!!! I know we're not supposed to post on our own personal movements, but I've got an idea. A march on Wall Street to shut it down for a day. At least it'll get everybody's attention away from the celebrety of the day and focused on something that matters. If we took all of the construction workers that are out of work here in Florida, that alone is over a million people. I'm not advocating pitchforks and torches, but starting out a well thought out dialouge to get the people to listen. If I did it alone, I'd be ridiculed, but if I had support, we'd be taken seriously.

The 2nd great depression will not be televised. Nothing to see here, move along.


In the MSM and even television shows seem to have forgotten that poor people are real. If you looked at television shows in the 70's and early 80's, a lot of them used to reflect the reality of society. They focused on families struggling to stay afloat. Nowadays, it's all about bling bling and fake "reality" shows. I don't watch television programs any more because they provide absolutely no redeeming value whatsoever and don't represent the majority of the people. The MSM reports all the time on how bad the housing crisis is but they don't put a face on it. They never report on where these people go when they foreclose on their home. This is getting very surreal folks.

God how I miss the Clinton days. I seriously hope that the next president is the shizznit so we can have that booming economy again.

reply to post by NGC2736


I'm with you on this one. I'll join up and do a 'no spend'. Heck, I almost already do. I don't have many outgoings. I've cut back by choice.

Food prices are rising globally it seems as prices have just recently gone up in the Philippines too.

But the price of a McD's or a KFC has not changed... Odd that, I think.
It's like a forced push to stop you doing home cooking and get you into fast food.

I reckon selling up and moving out is a good option. Get away from the mainstream thievery and find yourselves a nice little Eden somewhere.
Bring back the hunter/gatherer in yourselves and live off the land again. That'll really mess these banks up.

Stopping the financial scam can only be done by not using it as a means to support yourselves.

We regularly get power cuts here and it makes a huge change to day to day living. You tend to find you got more time for things you willingly neglect because you're watching the latest DVD or replying to a thread in a forum..

Be a part of the solution by not using their money.