If Reincarnation is real, was Buddha the reincarnated Jesus?

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
In order for the premise to be even remotely true, first you have to prove that Jesus was an actual historical figure, and there's absolutely zero evidence for that. The scriptures don't count.

Wait a sec.........
If the Scriptures is not Historical proof enough, as well as many other Historical facts based on Christs birth and Resurrection, then should we not Also,dismiss ALL other Historical facts as well?
Would not that make '' History obsolete!

The Apostles and their successors are Historical figures,or do they not count because they associated with Jesus Christ who did not exist?
"the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God" (I Corinthians 4:1).
There are also separate books, written by the successors of the Apostles......all whom have recorded facts on paper or passed down to their next successor.

let me see,
Scripture is not classified as Historical evidence?
So that would make all History books and Historical records of all people void?
Right?

''And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.”
—John 21:25

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.”
—2 Timothy 3:16-17


Now back to the Original Post/If Reincarnation is real, was Buddha the reincarnated Jesus?
Is Reincarnation possible if one is a Christian?
Let's see what Christ says.......

Today you will be with me in paradise,
-not after several lifetimes and reincarnations,
but, "TODAY" (Luke 23:43)-for He, the Savior,
does not impose an impersonal and cruel karma on this criminal,
but grants immediate forgiveness and release from all sin and its consequences.
This is why St. Paul so urgently tells us that NOW is the favorable time; THIS is the day of salvation (II Cor. 6:20).
source

What do the Canons of the Church declare on 'Reincarnation'?
''As the Council of Constantinople declared in 543 A.D.: "If anyone shall say or think that the souls of men pre-exist...and were sent to inhabit bodies...let him be anathema."

helen

i think i've seen this "problem" before..

mmm.. let me remember....

oh yeah!!

i see this on youtube!!!

i don't know how to "post" you tube video, so i just give you the link:

www.youtube.com...

Look up the Buddhist saint, Esa of Nasth,l or Nazth
Esa of Nasth, I'm not exactly sure ive got the spelling right, arrived as a young man(14ish) in the Hindu Kush, with a silk caravan from far away western lands. He ended up studying at several monastaries and became a monk. He spent several years wandering the mountains of central asia and India, preaching a uniquie brand of buddhism. He gathered many followers, and to his message of peace, love and forgivness. He was important enough that he is mentioned and pictured in many contemporary texts after passing through a region.
Eventualy he went to a monastary in nepal/tibet, that is still in existence, where after several more years of study, writing and meditation it is said that he attained "Enlightenment".
Now in his twenties he works his way west and back home preaching as he went.
Some thirty years later he re-appears in Kashmir with a tale of being crucified by the romans, complete with scars, and how he was "risen" so that he might continue on to spread his message. He lived to and old age before passing and is now enshrined in a tombed high in the Hindu Kush, and his burial place is sacred to all of the reliions in the area, hindu, buddist, christian and even muslims.
Sound familiar? Its not just cultural bleed over this person did exist, there are records from many sources and cultures that mention him.
He was revered by Hindu and Buddist alike, there is a shrine at the top of a pass in the Hindu kush, where he meditated or something, that is holy to all, you will find hindus, buddists, moslems, sihks and so on all praying/meditating in the same room at the same time in complete harmony and peace.
The last monastary he was at claims to still have books written by his own hand in their library. They also have pictures of him painted while he was alive.
A large collection of his writings was kept at a monastary in , what is now pakistan, until the late 1880's?. They were stumbled upon by a group of Anglican missionaries. They were then taken to nearest colonial city, where they were turned over to the Colonial gov. and never seen or mentioned again.
There are a couple of other things, the sect of monks that follow him carry prayer beads, that are in the exact configuration of rosary beads.
If you look at very early images of Him, He is depicted in robes that are distinctly different from the cultural styles of the Mediterranian. Saint Esa is depicted in the robes of a buddhist monk of the period, the same a those worn by Him.
Many Christians get deeply offended by the tale of Saint Esa
, that it somehow denies the Divinity of Jesus of Nazareth, it in fact supports it.
This "man", I say "man" because the human body that was Jesus of Nazareth, was just a man, until that moment when Esa of Nasth was "Enlightened". At that point Jesus of Nazareth, became Jesus Christ, when his true identity and purpose in the world were revealed to him by God. He also realized that he was also the Buddha reicarnated
He survived being crucified, nobody survives being crucifed, yet he did.
I personly belive they are one and the same person, and that they were in fact the mortal carriers of a divine spirit.

Jesus can't be a reincarnation of Buddha, because Buddha was enlightened, and when he died, he rose to the highest plane of existence. As far as I know, people cannot become unenlightened, so I can't see how or why he would be reincarnated. Reincarnation is a process that those who have not reached spiritual enlightenment go through until they truly connect with ultimate reality/nirguna brahman. Atman is the "soul" it goes with you when you die, but you have no memories left, when you reincarnate, because they would impede your chances of becoming enlightened. Simply put, in a technological simile, atman is like your processor, it is what makes you function and it improves or indeed gets worse as you progress through lives, but the bodies you use as your vehicle contain the ram and hard drive you require to live individual lives, but they die when the body dies, so you have no memory.

My belief has and probably always will be, that Jesus was a man that became enlightened, much like Buddha, and seeing the effect Buddha had on people in the far east, and the effect Jesus was having, the romans decided to use it to their advantage. I believe they created the roman catholic religion to give justification for many of the things the empire did, I won't list any, because im already waffling and you all know about roman history. The romans could have simply skewed Jesus' words and actions and made everything fit how they wanted. Within 50 years or so, anyone that had actually met Jesus would be dead, and literacy rates were at best 15%. It therefore wouldn't have been difficult to invent a new religion, destroy the majority of real written accounts and and create some scriptures and get away with it within a 60 year period or even less. After all any remaining real accounts could be classed as herecy and anyone that lived long enough who had met Jesus, could be called a crazy old fool or a heretic.

Just my opinion of course, but its just another among many, what would be the fun of all this if everyone thought the same. None of us can prove anything, so its worth a try.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
The scriptures don't count.

I can understand someone saying that the Old Testament historical accuracy is very fuzzy and shouldn't be used as a sole source (or soul source??? get it?? ) .... but to say that the New Testament 'doesn't count' ??? How convenient for your arguement to insist on that.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
There are absolutely zero records for this man ...

Actually, there were MANY MANY books and letters and documents that the council putting together the bible had to choose from ~300 AD. Many. If they were stacked end on end the pile would have been yards high. They choose the ones they thought were most important (or, according to them, that the Holy Spirit led them to choose). The real question is this .. where did the rest of the information that they had to choose from go? It's been lost through the centuries.

Originally posted by mrmanuva
Jesus can't be a reincarnation of Buddha, because Buddha was enlightened, and when he died, he rose to the highest plane of existence. As far as I know, people cannot become unenlightened,

And there you have it.

As far as I know, (and I could be wrong), those who believe in reincarnation say that once someone has reached enlightenment they have NO NEED TO BE REINCARNATED again. They don't come back. Buddha would have no need to come back. Christ would have no need to come back in human form (assuming that he was just a human who reached enlightenment).

1 - Christ can't be the reincarnation of Moses ... remember the record of the Transfiguration on the Mountain? Christ was talking to Moses. If he were Moses in a past life, then Moses wouldn't have been there talking to Christ.

2 - Christ rose from the dead and walked among the Apostles, disciples, and the women. The records show him rising to Heaven. If he were being reincarnated he wouldn't have rose to heaven.

3 - As Speakerof truth pointed out, there ARE some suggestions in the bible that can lead a person to believe that reincarnation is possible - John the Baptiser possibly being Elijah has been brought up - but there is nothing to suggest that Christ said he was reincarnated. He specifically said that he is the only one to 'come down from Heaven'. He told us where He came from.

I believe that God can do whatever He wants. If He wants to send some people back for Reincarnation, then He can do that. However, there is no evidence that Christ was reincarnated ... and Christ Himself said that 'he came down from heaven' therefore CHRIST DENIES that He was reincarnated.

Originally posted by punkinworks
At that point Jesus of Nazareth, became Jesus Christ, when his true identity and purpose in the world were revealed to him by God.

Scripture is very clear that Christ knew He was the Son of God as early as 'the finding of Christ in the temple' - when he was ~ 12 years old. So there was no 'revealing' by God to Christ about who He is. He knew it all along.

He also realized that he was also the Buddha reicarnated

There is absolutely no evidence to support this statement. In fact, as I quoted, just the opposite is true. Christ specifically said that He is the only one 'to come down from heaven'.

He survived being crucified, nobody survives being crucifed, yet he did.

No He didn't. Scripture records are very clear. He died. Longinous, the Roman guard, even thrust his spear into Christ's heart to be sure that He was really dead.


[edit on 12/28/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by mandrake

1. The Buddha was born in 624 BC, BEFRORE Jesus Christ, how could he be Jesus's reincarnation.

5. Why does one religion have to have anything to do with another religion just because they have similar teachings. Why can't people just stick to believing in their own religions instead of making outlandish theories.

1. This was covered on page 1 when madnessinmysoul replied. I should've put the name Jesus where Buddha is in the title, and vice versa. Big deal .. as i said on page 1, yall dont have to be cute, you know what the heck I meant, pssh.

5. Uhh.. welll .. gee, those similar teachings maybe? I don't know why people can't stick to their own religions, I stick my own religion. And about the theories, again, no idea here, this is a conspiracy forum called above top secret where people can post weird, off-the-cuff thoughts that may be worth pondering by others, and from the looks of it, some members had some worthwhile things to say. Thus thought was provoked.

I'm sorry you missed the whole point. It's just a hypothetical "what if?" .. you know .. something to discuss.

As to people trying to turn this into a Jesus didn't exist versus Jesus did exist thread, this is not the topic!

In fact, its got zero to do with the topic. None of the people in this topic I mentioned, the holy prophetical men I cited, can be proven to have existed without a shadow of a doubt, including Siddartha Gotama, aka Buddha, who is every non-spiritual person's Hero because they barely know crap about true spirituality and so they see the cool fat guy who's name is associated with Marijuana, and they see all those hippies and now the new agers meditating and so forth, and they point to this most alternative of spiritualities, despite many times knowing very little about it, as some sort of .. perfect religion or better alternative to any other religion.

That is silly. If you don't wanna devote entirely, dont worry about what your opinion is, because it isn't founded on the true information if you havent previously devoted yourself to studying the religions and reading the texts for yourself to make your own decisions.

Remember, if you ever get caught up in a spiritual conversation and theres a hot, but dumb, chick in the group socializing that you wanna hit on, just act like a Buddhist and it's an instant score dude! for sure!

She will think you're soooooo coooooool .. hehe.

(To all true Buddhists no disrespect whatsoever but if you are a true Buddhist I dont think this would have offended you to begin with, because you'd have some sort of understanding beyond one's own nose.)

As to Buddha being on the highest plane and not in the cycle of reincarnation, this doesn't mean he could not choose to intercede and live another life for whatever reason, especially if commanded to by the Creator. We don't know what after-life is like, all reasonable possibilities have to be considered.

It sounds like .. only at the most direst of times, a being came to each of these distinct and different cultures and built a religion in each with similar teachings on some levels. Whether it is the same being or not I do not know, and no one else knows for sure either.

[edit on 12/28/2007 by runetang]

Originally posted by Vanitas
Well said.
I don't know either (and I am proud of it ; )). Nobody does.

That's not true - there are many, MANY things I, personally, do not know...but what I DO know...I know. If you know what I mean.

And I know reincarnation is a FACT. Although I would not try to make anyone else know that same thing just because I, myself, know it. It is something that each of us mush come to know on our own, through the direction of GOD Almighty.

No one knows everything...I personally hope I never do because my favorite thing of ALL is learning and discovery. But some of know some things and others know other things.

But none of us can legitimately say (IMO) that there is ANYTHING that NO ONE knows...how can any of us KNOW that?

I hope you understand what I am trying to say - basically just keep the options open - for everyone!

For with GOD, ALL things ARE possible!

♥

Jesus came to the earth plane as Amilius, Adam, Melchizedeck, Zend, Asapha, Joshua, Joseph, and Jesus; and He manifested through many other great leaders and teachers of other ages. For the Spirit of the Christ has walked with the priests of France, the lowly monks in England, the warriors in America. Those labored until their own personalities were laid aside in individuals.

That is from a report entitled: The Coming of Man, written by Hugh Lynn Cayce, son of Edgar Cayce and © the A.R.E.
I would post a link but it is on an access-by-membership site - it wouldn't do any good to post it unless you have a password.

There is another passage I once read which lists more incarnations but it will take me a while to search it out. I will do so, however.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
As far as I know, (and I could be wrong), those who believe in reincarnation say that once someone has reached enlightenment they have NO NEED TO BE REINCARNATED again. They don't come back. Buddha would have no need to come back. Christ would have no need to come back in human form (assuming that he was just a human who reached enlightenment).

]

They don't NEED to be, but they certainly can choose to be and there is no reason to think that such enlightened beings wouldn't choose to be, for the sake of man.

This book is one I highly recommend for anyone interested in the possible connection/similarities between Jesus and the Buddha.

It is called: Jesus and Buddha, The Parallel Sayings.
The author is Marcus Borg and the book is © 1997 Ulysses Press.

I have it and found it to be indescribably enlightening.

Here are three excerpts (Buddha’s words first, Jesus’ words after):

Consider others as yourself.
Dhammapada 10.1

Do to others as you would have them do to you.
Luke 6:31

Stealing, deceiving, adultery; this is defilement. Not the eating of meat.
Sutta Nipata 242

There is nothing outside the man which, going into him, is able to make him unclean: but the things which come out of the man are those which make the man unclean.
Mark 7:15

He was expert in knowing the thoughts and actions of living beings.
Vimalakirtinirdesha Sutra 2

But Jesus did not have faith in them, because he had knowledge of them all. He had no need for any witness about man; for he himself had knowledge of what was in man.
John 2:24-25

Originally posted by FlyersFan
3 - As Speakerof truth pointed out, there ARE some suggestions in the bible that can lead a person to believe that reincarnation is possible - John the Baptiser possibly being Elijah has been brought up - but there is nothing to suggest that Christ said he was reincarnated. He specifically said that he is the only one to 'come down from Heaven'. He told us where He came from.

Well, that's true. The only one where he hinted that he may have reincarnated is when he told his disciples that he had come before, but they didn't recognize him. I can't remember what book or verse he said that in, though.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
As far as I know, (and I could be wrong), those who believe in reincarnation say that once someone has reached enlightenment they have NO NEED TO BE REINCARNATED again. They don't come back. Buddha would have no need to come back. Christ would have no need to come back in human form (assuming that he was just a human who reached enlightenment).

This is the predominant belief among religions/groups/people that believe in reincarnation - just as you say...BUT there is something else that might be considered.

If and when a soul becomes fully enlightened...I refer hypothetically to the Buddha...then how could that soul turn their back on all the souls left behind who had not yet been filled with the light? That, to me, would negate the idea of being truly enlightened - to ascend and leave the world behind is still an act of selfishness, IMO.

So...let's just say the Buddha felt this way, too - unable to leave the world behind...but then in the lifetime of Jesus Christ - when he 'gave up the ghost' on the cross...he was then able to literally become a ghost, so to speak - and therefore able to visit within every soul - to shatter the light and spread it out into every soul would have been the ultimate solution!

Just a thought...

GOD bless you, FlyersFan!
♥

Originally posted by mrmanuva
Jesus can't be a reincarnation of Buddha, because Buddha was enlightened, and when he died, he rose to the highest plane of existence.

Please read these Wiki pages on Buddhism and Bodhi, if you want to know more accurately the ideas of Buddhism (without having to become a Buddhist)...they are good summaries of what I know to be true, from studying more in-depth into Buddhism.

Bodhi
Buddha-nature
Buddha

Just my opinion of course, but its just another among many, what would be the fun of all this if everyone thought the same.

Exactly! I agree!

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, that's true. The only one where he hinted that he may have reincarnated is when he told his disciples that he had come before, but they didn't recognize him. I can't remember what book or verse he said that in, though.

Here it is:

And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed.
Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
Matthew 17:10-13

As the orthodox church in Rome gained more and more political power the more it viewed secret teachings as a threat to their own public teachings. But the Church leader who made the final and greatest attempt to revive the secret teachings of Jesus within the orthodox teachings was the first Church Father named Origen (183-253 A.D.)

When Christianity was Christianity

Originally posted by runetang
(To all true Buddhists no disrespect whatsoever but if you are a true Buddhist I dont think this would have offended you to begin with, because you'd have some sort of understanding beyond one's own nose.)

How true is that?!?

As to Buddha being on the highest plane and not in the cycle of reincarnation, this doesn't mean he could not choose to intercede and live another life for whatever reason, especially if commanded to by the Creator. We don't know what after-life is like, all reasonable possibilities have to be considered.

I'm not sure that there is such a thing as 'highest plane' in the Buddhist philosophy - there is samsara and there is nirvana. Neither one is a place, either physical or metaphysical, but more simply a state of mind.

Life is spent either in a state of samsara or nirvana; or in the lifetime in which enlightenment is achieved, a combination of both.

One can either reincarnate into the cycle of samsara (suffering) or nirvana (liberation from suffering) and once freed from samsara, one has the choice of whether or not to reincarnate at all. But once liberated, truly the soul is free to choose and the reasons are not subject to any qualifications.

Originally posted by queenannie38
If and when a soul becomes fully enlightened.....then how could that soul turn their back on all the souls left behind who had not yet been filled with the light?

From what I understand .. and again, I could be wrong ... the enlightened soul isn't 'turning it's back' on those still here. Instead - that enlightened soul understands that it can not live those peoples lives .. that they have to find (and accept) their own way and that no one can push them, or live their lives for them.

It's a journey that each person has to make on their own .. that kind of thing.

Again .. i could be wrong. But that's my understanding of the belief.

www.rael.org

Rael is the last prophet to be sent by the Elohim and is the brother of Jesus - they both have the same father.

Read Rael's book - it's a free download which can be found via the link above.

The question I have is this: Why did the teachings of all these people differ so greatly? Some believed in a god while others didn't (EXAMPLE: Buddhism does not believe in a God while others do), some offered revelations completely opposed to their predecessors (Example: Jesus taught that He was the Son of God while Mohamed considered Jesus merely a prophet), some taught redemption through works while others taught redemption through belief (EXAMPLE: Christianity teaches salvation through the belief in Jesus being our Savior while Buddhism teaches enlightenment through good deeds), some faiths are monotheistic while others are polytheistic (EXAMPLE: The one God of Judaism vs. the multiple gods of Hinduism), etc.

So, if they were self aware and the enlightened same individual, why did their messages differ so greatly? By achieving the highest form of enlightenment they would have retained the memory of their former lives and could have gotten their stories a little straighter.

I'll stick with the belief we only get one shot at this.

Originally posted by AshleyD
I'll stick with the belief we only get one shot at this.

Well, that is certainly your choice and not a bad one. After all, even if there is a such thing as reincarnation, I would think that it woud behoove a person to do the best they can in this life or to acheive enlightenment in this life. Who really wants to have to repeat another go around on this earth? I know I don't.

[edit on 29-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 29-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]