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Why Stealth Tech. was disclosed?

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posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 06:33 PM
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I have been thinking about this for a while now. Im no expert on weapon systems and such but it seems to me that there is no reason why we disclose this technology. You will imagine that something like this will be kept quitely in the dark as long as possible.

Anyone here with any particular knowledge of what lead to the disclosure of this tecnology?




posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 07:41 PM
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No matter how secret something is while under development or during testing, the minute it becomes a 'line force', the wall of secrecy is going to start coming down whether the government wants it to or not. The instant somebody got a decent photo of an F-117 or a B-2, there were experts looking at it and asking "Why in the *bleep* did the Americans shape an airplane that way?". Once they were actually *used*, their radar-deceiving abilities were fairly obvious. At that point, (if not at the 'publicly photographed' point), there was no point in denying that 'stealth' technology existed.

You might also note that there isn't as much disclosed as you might think at first. For example, we know that the B-2 Spirit has 'stealth' (the technical term is 'low-observability'), and that it gets a great deal of its stealthiness from the way that radar waves reflect off the curves of the airframe. That sounds like a lot of information, but in reality, it's not. There's nothing there about how the curves impact the radar cross-section, or about how changing the curves changes RCS. There's no discussion of how different frequencies of radar will (or won't) be reflected, or of optical and infra-red deception. Really, we know that 'stealth exists'....and that was fairly obvious the minute F-117s started bombing Baghdad during ODS.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 08:16 PM
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There are also theories that the new crop of stealth bombers use an alternate engine that may be gravitationally based which explains the complete lack of contrails and sound when they are used. If you think the technology behind it has been disclosed then go look on wikipedia and see if you can figure out how they do it. Better yet don't look there because the government edits it anyway. The truth is very few countries have any idea how it works and it is just as far out of their grasp as teleportation and flying saucers.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 08:16 PM
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It makes sense to do a series of limited 'hang-outs' of your technology (or alleged technology) if you're trying to sucker the opponent into building more counter-tech, thereby draining his finances.

USSR could have continued to try and build more radar installations, but it would have been prohibitively expensive due to the small RCS of the stealth bomber (for example).

I think it's possible we did this wrt Roswell (and other instances), making the Soviets think we had alien tech, further pushing them to spend more dollars on counter-ops.

2 cents.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by Scalamander
There are also theories that the new crop of stealth bombers use an alternate engine that may be gravitationally based which explains the complete lack of contrails and sound when they are used. If you think the technology behind it has been disclosed then go look on wikipedia and see if you can figure out how they do it. Better yet don't look there because the government edits it anyway. The truth is very few countries have any idea how it works and it is just as far out of their grasp as teleportation and flying saucers.


Are there any *reputable* theories that mention gravitational propulsion? As for "how they do it", the answer doesn't require anything alien or extraterrestrial, just a serious application of applied physics and massive computational power (to simulate the behavior of radar waves striking the aircraft), and technologies to disperse and cool the exhaust from the engines, in order to reduce I.R. emissions. Nothing alien needed there, just some really good materials people. The cooler, more difuse exhaust, along with a fuel additive, takes care of the contrails. As for sound, I can tell you first-hand that while a B-2 is quieter than a standard aircraft, it's not at all quiet in the objective sense. You can hear it very easily, even in a fairly noisy environment. Check out any of the several videos on YouTube (among other places) of B-2s doing flyovers at airshows and sporting events. You'll hear it quite plainly.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:46 PM
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You release that kind of information for a variety of reasons.

Carter did to show he was not soft on defence as a counter to Reagan who was hammering him on the issue

Word gets out eventually, by disclosing, you can sometimes have more controll over what gets out.

Its expensive too to keep units like that under wraps.

You also want to be able to train with other units, practice tactics, long range deployments etc. Much of which is hard to do at night.

It also sends amessage to the opfor "look what we have" try to counter it.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:54 PM
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What is a more powerful weapon? One that nobody knows about or one that is disclosed to the world that changes the face of first strike warfare? I mean a positive of the disclosure is most certainly one of deterrence and posture. It also brings much confidence in the US and brings more weight to negotiations the US and allies may be involved in at the time.

I'm not saying these were, without question, the reasons, only that these would be positive outcomes of disclosure specially when that technology was already 20 years old and much better things were already in the air.



[edit on 12/26/2007 by kinglizard]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 11:38 PM
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Stealth technology was revealed for all the mentioned reasons and simply because the US government is about 40 years ahead of currently known technology to begin with anyway, it's becoming more widely known now that we have interstellar capability behind the scenes, probably being used by clandestine units.

And as the previous poster mentioned, stealth aircraft are still loud as hell, I can send you some sound bites of how loud they can be.

I have talked to a few insiders and the next technology will be optical stealth.

There are some aircraft that are used by the Airforce or CIA (dont know which one) that was sighted both gulf wars, often in tandem with F-117's, they are supposedly delta-wing aircraft, much in the flying wing configuration, some have called it TR-3A Black Manta including www.fas.org.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 05:12 PM
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There are several reasons why a government would disclose its once secret weaponry. Some of those have been mentioned already. However, in this case the balloon dropped when a stealth plane crashed in California in the mid 80's.
Some of you are too young to know, while others just don't remember, but... Before our government even acknowledged the B-2 or F117 there were already toy models of these airplanes. The government back in the 80's swore up and down they didn't exist, even though pictures showed extremely weird looking aircraft, and those pictures produced those, as we know now, extremely accurate looking models. So in the case of stealth airplanes/tech, a series of, "follies", forced there acknowledgment.

The same is true of the new stealth fighters serving, "supposedly", in Alaska. You can see one of these planes in the movie, 'Live Free or Die Hard'. Which btw, if those planes can actually do those/that maneuver, they are the sickest thing ever invented. Seriously if you've seen the movie, and that wasn't strictly computer special effects... One word sums that airplane up perfectly... DAMN!

The real question should be, "Once our enemies know, and they always know before we the people do... Then why is our government still keeping those machines/weapons secret from us?" I mean we did pay for them after all!

Me two cents


[edit on 27-12-2007 by litlbunny]



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by litlbunny
The same is true of the new stealth fighters serving, "supposedly", in Alaska. You can see one of these planes in the movie, 'Live Free or Die Hard'. Which btw, if those planes can actually do those/that maneuver, they are the sickest thing ever invented. Seriously if you've seen the movie, and that wasn't strictly computer special effects... One word sums that airplane up perfectly... DAMN!
[edit on 27-12-2007 by litlbunny]

If you're talking about the American next-gen F-35 and F-22 (f-35 was the one in the movie), everyone has fully acknowledged that both of those aircraft exist. The f-22 (the heavy fighter, as opposed to the f-35 which is more conventional in tech but has more exciting variants) is already in service, and has been since '05. The f-35 is a lower-tech exportable aircraft. Nothing done by either jets is particularily amazing except for the fact that they have good performance despite a highly stealthy design (moreso for the f-22), as the maneuvrability of those aircraft and the VTOL-hovering capacities are...well, nothing new. Though I will acknowledge that the f-22 pwns due to it's ridiculously low RCS (supposedly marble-sized, which is insane, which is why anyone trying to nail it can forget about using traditional short-wavelength radar against it at long range, though that's been true since the f-117, and it's why people are currently trying to implement alternative detection methods.) and smooth control system.
For that matter, Russia isn't exactly hiding their next-gen stealth aircraft either. They've set as their goal for the Sukhoi PAK-FA to basically be as good as the f-22, and probably cheaper due to production in Russia, and hopefully out sometime in 2012, and have stated that it's a project to combine research from the Mikoyan-1.44 and Sukhoi-47 Berkut into a nice 5th-generation heavy stealth fighter.



Seriously, if you think that hovering is the sickest thing ever invented, go check out the Harrier. Or a helicopter. Or a dirigible for that matter. The f-22 for all it's maneuvres can't do a VTOL hover, but it can handle almost 10 g's and can flop around quite nicely however it wants almost stationary due to the brilliant combination of shape and thrust vectoring (but so can most modern Russian fighters that are just upgraded versions of 80's planes, which is why people often don't highlight that as the main awesomeness of the beast, and look instead at the fact that if you're using standard radar against it, you die).



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 12:08 PM
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As previously mentioned, the Carter administration revealed the existence of stealth to prove they were not soft on defence - but also because the program was leaking in 1975, four years before the F-117 even flew.

See www.fas.org... :

"In the summer of 1975, the first report claiming that a small stealth fighter was being developed by the Air Force was published. Six months later, a second aviation journal said that "high priority was being given to the incorporation of stealth technology into fighter designs." The number of references to stealthy aircraft continued to grow over the following three years."

Keeping secrets is harder than you might think.



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 04:45 PM
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Wow guys very interesting indeed, I'm in the AF and the reasoning behind my question is that I know that the AF protects their secrets and high tech equipment very dearly, I mean I can be in the AF but if they get me close to an F-22, SR-71, B-2, without authorization Im going straight to jail or worst.

It just didnt any sense to me why they will disclose and guard at the same time. Even some of the planes that I have seen up and close like the ones they bring out for Air Shows and exhibitions have all the equipment removed and everything.

Like the other poster said, I wonder if the AF or military as a whole has anything more impressive behind the curtain?

[edit on 28-12-2007 by Bunch]



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 01:18 AM
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To keep you distracted. OR perhaps to get people to try and hack it so improvements can be made. OR they like to flaunt their superiority. Remember, the more complex technology gets the more likely some small error will lead to catastrophy.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 04:15 AM
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When I got to Keflavik, Iceland with the US Air Force..the other squadron there had still in service the F 102 Delta Dagger aircraft. This at that time was the last of the squadrons to have active F102 Fighter aircraft in front line service. Most of them had by that time gone to the National Guard squadrons or the boneyard.
What was so intresting to me was that when I visited the maintenance facilitiess next door...they had removed the tape from the radar set after a mission. They played the tape on a type of tape player. This was a small cassette type set up. It showed in black and white format the tracking of the target..the lock on function taking place and the weapons release to target. The whole mission profile was here. What the maintenance people used it for was to track the possible functioning or malfunctioning of the radar set.
What I came to understand years later ...with the advent of the beta max video format for VCRs ...is that this was 1950s technology...coming out to the public use in the 1970s. Mind you now..it was improved with the advent of colour televisions et al..but it was still 1950s tech.
This represents a 20 year lead lag time frame.

I was schooled in the early variations of Terrain following, Terrain avoidance radar. Not that many people know that it was the radar designed for the early versions of the huge C 5 Galaxy Transport aircraft.
This was called C 5 multimode radar. What must this be like in advancements for the C 17 aircraft of today. Still a rather large aircraft.

Digital technology has caused huge advancements in how radar works or is used. Same for Sonar. What is the lead lag time for this kind of equipment before the public is even aware of it.??

There were a handful of guys around here ..investors ..many years ago.. financing a project in micro biology. They found that the costs were quite high and prohibitive. They began to look for government financing in this field for thier investment. They wound up in a place called Jet Propulsion laboratries in Pasedina, California.
What one of these investors told me was that Jet Propulsion declared to them was that their idea had merit and the government could get them X number of dollars in a short time. However they would have to sign thier concept and ideas over to the government to disclose or hold from the public at their (government) discretion.
In the mean time ..they were allowed to take a tour of the Laboratries.
This fellow investor told me that most people think they work on ideas related to aircraft and space propulsion...yes they do. But they also work on any other idea in the science field that can be concieved and made practical...even many theoretical areas.
What he told me next was that the people actually doing the work on the front lines are very very young. They are the best in their fields. They dont even know that a thing cannot be done. They are even inventing the tools to make the projects work. By the time a person becomes thirty the field has changed...they are out of date..the fields are moving so rapidly. People in thier thirtys are no longer in the field so much doing research and work as they are in management and wharehousing ..cataloging of projects...overseeing the project ..not doing the actual work.
I was rather taken back by this story.
It caused me to wonder how many ideas and inventions are being kept off the markets or out of public hands as they would collapse entire ecomonic markets...no matter their benifit to the public or humanity.
How many ideas and inventions have been supressed and prevented from fruitition.

This knowlege and awareness caused me to muse on the nature of inventiveness. The nature of politics/economics.

Stealth is only a small area in this field. The F 22s are right up the road from me at Langley AFB. I understand that the F 15s they are to replace ..certain versions are currently grounded due to structural problems. This is going to be intresting.

I think that the field of stealth is undergoing radical changes. It is moving that rapidly. The attempt is to get competitors to still use last years stealth technology. Stealthy stealth so to speak. A misdirection. No proof...just supposition on my part. You folks dont have to buy into it.

Orangetom



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by Scalamander
There are also theories that the new crop of stealth bombers use an alternate engine that may be gravitationally based which explains the complete lack of contrails and sound when they are used. If you think the technology behind it has been disclosed then go look on wikipedia and see if you can figure out how they do it. Better yet don't look there because the government edits it anyway. The truth is very few countries have any idea how it works and it is just as far out of their grasp as teleportation and flying saucers.


High bypass turbofan would be my first guess. Pretty quiet for a jet engine and the bypass air cools the exhaust. Not quite as sexy as a gravitational propulsion device though.

Back on track though, the disclosure of 'stealth' technology has been pretty limited, how the aircraft geometry interacts with radar is only half the game, the materials used are as important and far easier to keep secret.
I believe the really secret stuff is going to be the boring technical bits like details on the radar system, frequencies used and frequency agility, that sort of stuff. Like I said, much easier to keep secret than what it looks like but much more important when it comes to the crunch.

[edit on 30-12-2007 by meihem]
Edited and redited for a glaring number of typos :S

[edit on 30-12-2007 by meihem]



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by Bunch
 



Why Stealth Tech. was disclosed?


Disclosed? It hasn’t been a secret since WWII, and only the general public bough into the hype and propaganda campaigns which were necessary to justify the fleecing of American taxpayers of Trillions of dollars.

De Havilland Mosquito (shape/wood construction)

Horten Ho-IX (Gotha Go 229 or Ho 229)

“Night Witches” of the 588th Night Bomber Regiment flying obsolete wooden/canvas Polikarpov Po-2 biplanes and were immune to Heinkel He219A Uhu and Ju 88R-1 radar equipped night fighters.

Let me put it this way, back in 1991 there was a movie called Terminator 2, in which Terminator talked about AI chips that were installed into unmanned STEALTH bombers.

“Stealth” concept has been around since the very first time radio interference phenomena was discovered.

“Stealth” is just as “secret” as an internal combustion engine, that Diesels original design burned on corn oil, and that the very first cars were electric in the first place.

In a decade or to this social engendering disaster will result in people believing that electricity was given to man kind by extraterrestrials, and that Nicola Tesla was a mythical wizard from a children’s book.



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