Originally posted by worldwatcher
I don't want a child who knows how to talk already.
[Edited on 2-9-2004 by worldwatcher]

Can you find me one that only says "Can I help you with that Mom" or "I don't want anything for my Birthday" instead of "I'm too tired" or "I want a PS2 for my birthday".

Originally posted by Venus

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
The only difference is in writing. Yours put it very politely and mine did not.

Point of view. But this is not a debate on abortion, nor do I want it to be.

COME ON....don't back down now...........I was just pointing out the simple truth. Anti abortion groups want to guilt people into thinking they are commiting murder and how horrific it is. It is NOT........it is a life saving tool that should not be used without thinking it thru. There are so many homeless and orphaned and abused children in this world. Give them loving homes before you add more of these children to this world. There are so many young adults that can not handle parenthood and should not be forced too. OxMank and his fiance have their whole lives in front of them and I wish them the best. It's not like they were trying to get pregnant then changed their minds. Good luck to them both whatever they decide and when the time is right they will KNOW IT.

I am not backing out. I am trying not to deviate. But to address you, here is a quote that I believe.

"The cultural environment for a human holocaust is present whenever any society can be misled into defining individuals as less than human and therefore devoid of value and respect."

It's happened here during slavery, the Nazi's, and now here again.

It is a sickness that is plaguing this country and propogating the absolution of life and it's value in every context.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Dark, although I agree with you to a point, busting someones balls is not the way to get them to change their minds.

Like I said, if need be, I can get the money. I hope some others on this board will help if need be.

I never said I wanted to sway anyone's decision. It's always the decision of the woman. I'm sorry if I didn't clarify that.

Dark, my mistake. I must have misread you.

No Prob KJ. I really shouldn't have strayed into this topic.
I have 3 great children that mean the world to me. It's just heartbreaking to hear about someone who is put in the position to abort a child. I'm sorry if I came off sounding like an anti-abortion nazi before OXmanK. I wish the best for you and your fiance. Sincerely.

I do appreciate that, Dark, but I brought this to light just to hear the arguments once more before we do it...

I also wish you the best no matter what you do.

But I do believe that it is a child from the get go. No offense but I also do not think your arguement for it are strong enough. Life is going to be hard no matter what way you go and this will only serve to provide you with regret.

You will be blown away at how much love can come from a child even before it is born. It evokes something dormant in people that is beyond your knowing and I would encourage you to seek more information about it all.

Like I said, if it's money or anything tangeble, it can be done, no problem.

But this life is sacred and special that was made by the two of you even if it by accedent. It's ok, and it will be beautiful to you and you will love it given the chance.

But you will never know what was to be since abortion cuts short the ability for this child to become a part of your heart.

Go spend a little time with some babies and think about the first time the baby would recognize you and smile and giggle. There is nothing in this world of pain and ugliness that can make life worth living.

GOSH.....DID I PISS YOU OFF SO BAD YOUR AVATAR DISAPPERED??? LOL

Oxmark - If you guys decide to have the baby....let me know....I'll raise it up right and let you change all the poopy diapers.

My husband and I have two beautiful children (12 & 2) and I thank God for them everyday. I also pray for His forgiveness for the one I didn't think I was ready for. I don't regret that decision and I hope your fiance never regrets hers either. Good Luck

Originally posted by Venus
Can you find me one that only says "Can I help you with that Mom" or "I don't want anything for my Birthday" instead of "I'm too tired" or "I want a PS2 for my birthday".

How about one that wants nothing more than to have a family that loves him/her. A child that feels unwanted and alone, who you could tell, "I love you, you're beautiful!" and in return you get to see his/her sad face brighten and break into a little grin. There are so many kids in foster homes and orphanages that nobody wants because they aren't cute little babies. The world doesn't need any more children when we can't take care of the ones that already exist. I have decided that if I ever want children, I will adopt.


OXmanK:
I sympathize with your situation entirely. Several years ago I thought I was pregnant and I had to seriously contemplate how I was going to handle the situation.

My biggest issue was the fact that I was torn between my love for children, and my inability to justify bringing a child into the mess of a world that we've made (especially if I could not afford to stay home and raise it myself). If anyone think it's not that bad, then they have a much more optimistic view of our current reality than I have.
The world is becoming increasingly overpopulated and the quality of life is declining rapidly.
I have no plans to bring another life into it, unless by some miracle everything drastically improves. Children are beautiful, amazing little creatures and they don't deserve to grow up in a world that is so #ed up that a kid can't walk home from a friend's house without having to worry about being kidnapped and killed.

I could never go through 9 months of pregnancy, knowing a life was growing inside me, then deliver a child only to hand it over to someone else, either.

I inevitably came to the conclusion that if I did turn out to be pregnant, the right thing to do would be to end it. Not because I don't value the life of the baby, but because I would rather endure the pain of knowing I would never see it's little face, than bear a child who has a pure heart as a baby, only to experience the gradual loss of it's innocence and the pain that comes from being human. To watch it happen to my own child, would be more than I could stand.

Fortunately, I was not pregnant and if it were to happen today, I can't honestly say that I would be able to go through with aborting a child that was conceived with the man that shares my heart and soul.

I do believe, however, that if your motives for ending a pregnancy are wrought out of a sincere belief that you can not provide the child with the emotional support and/or stable environment that it deserves as a pure, blameless being, and not just because it is an inconvenience that you'd rather not deal with, then you are acting out of love.

Nobody else knows your heart or the pain you had to go through in making your decision, so nobody has the right to condemn or judge you for it.
I would just say that you should be as sure about your choice as possible, because it's not something you can change your mind about once it's done. Especially if you plan to have kids in the future, since that is often when people experience the pain of regret. Seeing one child growing up and wondering what the child you didn't have would have been like is what causes depression in some people who weren't sure about the abortion when they had it done.

Good luck...I hope everything works out for you both.

P.S. This is not meant to offend anyone who has kids...I think kids are incredible and I do think about what having one would be like. I just can't help but think of the how world will be as they grow up, and I worry more about my child's happiness in it, then what I may be missing by not having a child.

[Edited on 9-2-2004 by jezebel]

Originally posted by OXmanK


I just want to know how everybody in this community feels about it. Furthermore, no amount of debate will change or choice on this matter. We are having an abortion no matter what. (Unless you pay for everything until we are established and out of school...I don't think there is enough rich people here to pull that one off.) Anywho, watch out for fallacies...

If you feel you can't give it a good upbringing, and give the baby what it needs, then it's best not to have it.
I got an abortion when I was 17 because i knew I wasn't mature enough, I wasn't ready to have a baby financially, and the baby's daddy was a retard. It would grow up to be a very confused emotional individual.
I wouldn't want to wish that upon any human being.
Personality disorders are serious although many people don't understand them. Anyway that is something that would happen to your baby because your already set in your ways and know that you obviously can't give it what it would need. I got mine in Canada, where it comes out of the tax system, so i didn't have to worry about paying a fee. I'm not sure if you can get one done there or not. I'm wondering if you have any organizations around the states that could help you.
Anyway, good luck, and I support your decision.
A doctor won't give her an abortion after 12 weeks(I think), by then it wouldn't be a zygote anymore... Better hurry.

[Edited on 10-2-2004 by TrueLies]

Originally posted by OXmanK
Venus: I don't know what I would do, except for cry. (More so than what I have) This was by far the hardest decision I have ever had to make in my life. It was extremely tough, not just for the question of what if, but becuase of the people I love and interact with. They all hate it with a passion. Most of my family will probably disown, but for the sake of the potential child and us this is the best.

I would advise you not to tell anybody... Just from experience, I didn't tell a soul except for my closest friends, if my family knew, they would of wanted me to have the baby, which is more emotional stress on YOU.

The zygot doesn't know whats going on, it's sperm and an egg joined to together, with mutating cells. It grows, it's not a human being YET. Doctor's will only abort during a certain time frame. After that it's murder...

Honestly, don't get to emotional about it because your thinking about the what ifs and what kind of life you "would" have... You have to be logical and reasonable here, this is a decision that is based on whether or not you can provide for a baby/toddler/little kid/teenager/young adult in the future. It's a tough road to take, and you already know you can't do it, so don't.

When it comes to adoption all I see here in your decision is that you wouldn't want to give it up once you saw the baby. So in that sense your being selfish. If you can be strong about this whole thing, have an adoption, let it go, and just know your letting someone else have a wonderful chance at nurturing and caring for another human being, and that they could do a better job then what you could. Don't beat yourself up over it, it's for the better of the child... Pull your head out of your ass.


If you need to talk with someone in person, you can call: 1-800-230-PLAN and you'll be connected to the nearest Planned Parenthood. They will be able to help you set up an appointment if needed.

If you want more information about abortion, visit www.plannedparenthood.org, go to the site index or home page, and click on "abortion."

PS: Also don't forget there is the morning after pill you she can take, she has 72 hrs to take the pill (3 days) after intercourse.

I believe they sell it over the counter in the states.

[Edited on 10-2-2004 by TrueLies]

Also, an abortion pill is available...

Mifepristone, formerly called RU-486, can be used during the first seven weeks of pregnancy.
Call this number 1-800-230-PLAN



To find out more about mifepristone and medical abortion, contact Planned Parenthood at 1-800-230-PLAN, other women's health care centers, or your private clinician. Planned Parenthood centers that do not provide medical abortion may be able to refer you to someone who does.

Also, Fees for abortion depend on how long you've been pregnant and where you go. At health centers, the cost ranges from about $225 to $575 for abortion in the first trimester. Hospitals generally cost more.

Hope this makes you feel better....

TL


Make sure she gets it done soon!! The longer you wait the more difficult it will be and the more the fetus grows the more it feels... K??


[Edited on 10-2-2004 by TrueLies]

Better hurry before it turns into a pesky human being.

After that you can't kill it. Well, maybe you can. If we can just justify that it is NOT human until it comes out, then we can kill it anyway. Hey, that's a great idea. Phew, got rid of one inconvenience.

Where do you draw the line people, 3 months, six months, 2 days before delivery? Human life is special and important. The fact that some people can just write it off as "not human" I find to be discusting in the extreme.

This is an utterly rediculous arguement. Any person who is a proponant of abortion is a filthy and mislead person.

Laziness and an unwillingness to take responcibility for your actions.

Selfishness. Wallow in your selfishness ladies and gentlemen.

Krazyjethro,

You and I agree on MOST issues. This is NOT one of them. What gives you the right to judge others? How can you possibly KNOW all of the details of every pregnency? How many times have you been pregnent?

answers
Nothing
You can't
Zero

That said where does your spite come from?

If my parents were unable to support me in a good environment I would rather I was not born. Would you want to be the father of one of those Ethiopian kids on TV that has a 90% chance of death by age 5? Not me.
I made a decision long ago that I would not have children. There was a time that I made a stupid mistake when I was a teenager but I left the decision UP TO HER! I knew what made sense and so did she. How the hell do you expect a couple of sixteen year olds to bring up a child? We made the right decision and I stand by it.
Today is somewhat different. I have a stepson that I have lived with, cared for and loved for the last ten years. I mention this so that you don't think I'm "selfish" or "ignorant" as you accuse some of the fine people here of being. The only one being "selfish" is you. You seem to think that YOUR beliefs must be imposed upon others. The only one being "ignorant" is you. You fail to understand that we don't live in some utopia where everyone and everything is magically taken care of.

Sorry for the rant.

How can I judge others? Well, it's like this. Calling a spade a spade is not a judgement call. It is an observation.

How can I judge their situation. I don't care too, and likely, it does not apply.

If the parents of a 7 month old baby find that they are unable to provide for the child emotionally or financially. And they are unable to find someone who wants to adopt the child, then they should kill it correct?

I can bet that no one would say yes. I wouldn't. But that would also not be imposing my views on others.

How can you impose your beliefs on others to say that rape is wrong and should be punished?

How can you impose your beliefs on others to say that torturing and murdering an 85 year old woman is wrong and outragious?

The fact is, is that no one can deny that if NOT aborted, it will pop out a living breathing human child.

People go out of their way to save life, pray for those who face death, seek justice for those who take life.

Yet because of a reclassification of what is life, we have set up government funded holocaust.

The Jew's were not seen as human, thusly they died.

Slaves were not seen as human, thusly they were sold, beaten, and murdered.

Fetuses are not seen as human, thusly they are killed and some sold for science.

Imposition is the least thing I can do.

On a side note. Me and my wife had an unexpected pregnancy, which would give us child number two. We were not financially or physically ready in ANY way to deal with this child.

You know what we did? We worked out fingers to the bone and overcame it. Jack is now 7 months old and an utter laugh machine. Smiles all the time.

Anyone who could kill that is sick.

I'll consider you the person that I made up for. I hate to say it but the Chinese are right!!!! In the case of population control anyway. This planet can not sustain too many more of us.