Venus-

That was utter and complete bull#e. You say it's heartless to give a child life and then give it to someone who cares, so you would rather KILL it. Please that is the most selfish thing I have heard in a long time.

I don't care what the woman is going through. She knows what sex is for. Time to be responsible for your actions kids.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
If you had medical paid for, would you give it up for adoption if you had total control over who gets him?

If this is for me......NO

I would not give a child up for adoption period. I would however, let my family raise/care for the child until I was able to myself. I would NEVER give up my parental rights to my children.

It is an emotional thing to have a baby cut up and vacuumed out of your body, then to have the uterous scraped with a sharp tool repeatedly.

Venus- Money is one thing that life should not be based on. I personally know fantastic people who are very well off looking for babies.

There are multitudes of adoption agencies. There are Christian ones (if that's your persuation).

It comes down to this. This board has a lot of people who say this or say that, but when it comes down to it, no one acts.

I will. I can get whatever is needed.

Oxmank you and your girl should do what is best for your situation. If she feels she is strong enough to have an abortion and not be overwhelmed with guilt later in life, then so be it.

Personally I am pro-choice, women should be able to make that decision for themselves.

However I do have a problem with you and your girl using the excuse that you are too poor at this time to have a kid. I had my first child at age 21, while I was in college. The baby's father (my husband) was unemployed. Our parents are in the working middle class, no one has money to spare, but we decided to have our child because we loved each and we were willing to make any sacrifices to have a product of our love in our lives. I dropped out of college, started working and got govt assistance until after my child was born. When my baby was 2 months old, I went back to work and never looked back. my son is now 7. I am glad I sacrificed my college education for his birth, because now I am in the position in which I can return to college and get my degree if I so choose.

Basically, what I am trying to say is...Life is tough, it will get tougher with a baby, but if you two are really committed to each other, you will be able to work out the issues, have your child and still fulfill your personal goals. Please try social services and try to get medicaid and welfare before either having an abortion or giving up your child.

I personally am against adoption, people who support adoption, should think about all the children who are still waiting to be adopted, growing up in a system which doesn't care, before telling others to add another child to the system.

I don't know where you live, but there are NO kids waiting adoption here.

People are lined up around the corner to ADOPT kids.

Especially babies. Babies are so desireable that they go for around 50,000 bucks on the black market (no joke).

Adoption is very different now than it used to be. It is a great thing.

And it was early on in the pregnancy.

As for the 'morality' of it: only you live your life in your own personal relationship to your creator, as organized religion is nothing more than a cult that's gained respectability over the centuries; Today's Christianity is yester-century's Scientology.
When all the discarded or undesireable children have been adopted, then being a birth-mother makes sense.
THAT is something I find reprehensible and wrong.
Keep your head up, love each other and plan your future to include those babies.

Originally posted by aimlessly
Venus-

That was utter and complete bull#e. You say it's heartless to give a child life and then give it to someone who cares, so you would rather KILL it. Please that is the most selfish thing I have heard in a long time.

I don't care what the woman is going through. She knows what sex is for. Time to be responsible for your actions kids.

HAVE YOU EVER HAD TO MAKE THIS CHOICE?

That leads to my point, there shouldn't be a "choice". It's called nature. Sex was not designed for a "fun pastime" people, something to do when there isn't anything on tv. PROCREATION look it up.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
It is an emotional thing to have a baby cut up and vacuumed out of your body, then to have the uterous scraped with a sharp tool repeatedly.

No wonder you feel the way you do. You need to look into this procedure a little closer. Someone lied to you!

There is now a medical procedure where the doctor inserts a tablet that causes your body to abort the fetus. It is the equivelent to having cramps. At 8 wks the fetus is about the size of a grain of rice. Pretty painless.

SUCTION ASPIRATION:
This is the most common method of abortion during the first twelve weeks of a pregnancy. General or local anesthesia is given to the mother and her cervix is dilated.

A suction curette (hollow tube with a knife-edge tip) is inserted into the womb. This instrument is then connected to a vacuum machine by a transparent tube.

The vacuum suction, 29 times more powerful than a household vacuum cleaner tears the unborn child into pieces which are sucked out through the tube into a bottle and discarded.


MENSTRUAL EXTRACTION:
Very early in a pregnancy, suction abortions are performed using a smaller tube, and the cervix does not have to be dilated so greatly. This is called a 'menstrual extraction'.

If all the pieces of the child are not removed however, infection results, requiring a full dilation of the cervix and the scraping out of the womb.


DILATION AND CURETTAGE (D&C):
This method is similar to the suction method with the added insertion of a loop-shaped knife (curette) which cuts the baby into pieces. These pieces are scraped out through the cervix and discarded.

This is not to be confused with a therapeutic D&C which is done for reasons other than pregnancy.


DILATION AND EVACUATION (D&E):
This method is used up to 18 weeks' gestation. Instead of the curette used in D&C abortions, a pair of forceps is inserted into the womb to grasp part of the fetus.

The teeth of the forceps twist and tear the calcified bones of the unborn child. This process is repeated until the baby is totally dismembered and removed.

Sometimes the head of the child is too large and must be crushed for removal.


SALINE ABORTION:
"Salt poisoning", or the saline method, is used after the sixteenth week of pregnancy. A needle is inserted through the abdominal wall, through the uterine wall and into the amniotic sac.

Some of the amniotic fluid is removed and replaced with a concentrated salt solution. The unborn child breathes in and swallows the salt and is poisoned by it.

The mother goes into labour and a dead baby is delivered 24 to 48 hours later. This method of abortion is so dangerous to the mother that it is banned in sweden and japan.


PROSTAGLANDIN ABORTION:
Prostaglandin are hormones needed for birth. Injecting them into the amniotic sac induces intense labour and the premature birth of a child usually too young to survive.

This method is generally used for abortions done during the second half of pregnancy.

Saline or urea are sometimes injected first to kill the baby before delivery and make the procedure less distressful for the mother and abortion staff.


UREA ABORTION:
Urea is injected into the pregnant uterus in the same manner as saline.

Urea is a soluble, weakly basic nitrogenous compound that is the chief solid component of mammalian urine and an end product of pretein decomposition.

Urea is synthesized from carbon dioxide and ammonia, and is commercially used in the creation of platics, fertilizers and animal food.



No one lied to me. Suction Aspiration is the most common method.

Also, if you are talking about Mifeprex™, or Methotrexate, with Misoprostol they are only used up til 9 weeks.

Their effectiveness decreases the longer the pregnancy goes.

Please post that link. I will bet anything it came from an anti abortion website

You are right, it did. I realized that too late. Getting a better link now

don't bother: HERE'S THE TRUTH

The three most common methods are manual vacuum aspiration, dilation and suction curettage, and dilation and evacuation. The method used depends on how long you have been pregnant — the number of days since the first day of your last period.

Manual vacuum aspiration — or MVA, empties the uterus with gentle suction of a manual syringe. It is often used for very early surgical abortion. It can be done as soon as you know you are pregnant and up to 10 weeks after your last period.

Dilation and suction curettage — also known as D&C, or vacuum aspiration, gently empties the uterus with machine-operated suction. A curette (narrow metal loop) may be used to clean the walls of the uterus. This method is used for early surgical abortion. It is performed from six to 14 weeks after your last period.

Dilation and evacuation — also known as D&E, is a two-part procedure. The cervix is slowly opened. The procedure is completed with medical instruments, suction, and curettage. After 24 weeks of pregnancy, abortions are usually performed only for serious health reasons.

How long does it take?
MVA and D&C take about 10 minutes. A D&E takes between 10 and 20 minutes. Allow more time for the whole process, which also includes counseling, a physical exam, forms to read and sign, and a recovery period.

How effective is it?
Surgical abortion is nearly 100 percent effective. It fails to end a pregnancy one out of 500 times.
This can happen due to unusual conditions:
There can be more than one chamber in the uterus.
Or the pregnancy may not be in the uterus.

Originally posted by aimlessly
That leads to my point, there shouldn't be a "choice". It's called nature. Sex was not designed for a "fun pastime" people, something to do when there isn't anything on tv. PROCREATION look it up.

I'll bet you're fun on a date

When was the last time you got laid????

The only difference is in writing. Yours put it very politely and mine did not.

Point of view. But this is not a debate on abortion, nor do I want it to be.

krazyjethro, there are currently over 692 awaiting adoption in Florida alone as of today.


As of September 30, 2001, there were an estimated 542,000 children in foster care
with 126,000 waiting to be adopted nationwide.

Those who adopt children tend to be partial to babies only. What about all the other children who still need homes?

have a baby and give it up, so I can adopt it because I don't want a child who knows how to talk already. (that seems to be the thinking of many)

[Edited on 2-9-2004 by worldwatcher]

I'll bet you're fun on a date

You don't have sex durring a date! Or at least I don't, where do you live again?(j/k)

Everyone knows that part comes after the date.(usually, if you're lucky)

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
The only difference is in writing. Yours put it very politely and mine did not.

Point of view. But this is not a debate on abortion, nor do I want it to be.

COME ON....don't back down now...........I was just pointing out the simple truth. Anti abortion groups want to guilt people into thinking they are commiting murder and how horrific it is. It is NOT........it is a life saving tool that should not be used without thinking it thru. There are so many homeless and orphaned and abused children in this world. Give them loving homes before you add more of these children to this world. There are so many young adults that can not handle parenthood and should not be forced too. OxMank and his fiance have their whole lives in front of them and I wish them the best. It's not like they were trying to get pregnant then changed their minds. Good luck to them both whatever they decide and when the time is right they will KNOW IT.