What Motive?

I've noticed there have been a lot of people (some quite vehemently) assuring us that NASA/ESA are covering up evidence of life on Mars.

I'm curious as to what motives people can think of for these agencies to do such a thing? Surely the discovery of any form of life on Mars would be a massive boost for them and their budgets?

The only possible groups I could think of that might like to suppress such information may be fundamentalist religious groups. But I imagine most mainstream religious groups wouldn't really have a problem with such a discovery, as its easy for them to include that in God's universe.

As far as the wider scientific community, it would be extremely excited at such a discovery. Also, again any discovery of life on mars would have large flow-on effects through many fields of science with the added interest and directed study.

The only possible reason I can think of to with-hold any evidence is to wait until its confirmed, so as to avoid the embarassing situation as with Pathfinder/Sojourner where the possibility that the soil sample might have evidence of life was released. Only to later be retracted after the cause of the observations was realised. But even this possibility is countered by a comment by Dr. Mark Adler (Spirit Mission Manager).

From Dr. Adler:

I see no harm in wild speculation about what's in the images from the two landing sites. We put them out there in raw form pretty much as soon as we get them precisely so that the public can participate in the discovery process with us. I'm happy to see such a great interest in the images, and who knows, maybe someone out there will notice something that we haven't.

I really cannot see a motive as to why anyone would be withholding any evidence of life on Mars. There is too much to gain for everyone involved to be the first to make the discovery. Beyond the pure scientific enjoyment of the discovery itself.

Aren't Christians rulling the world anyway?
I know they can be extremly fundamentalist, especialy the Opus Dei.

BTW, I'm not really believing they are or are not holding information from us.

But you know the old roman saying, "The people like to be deceived. Deceived let them be."

Maybe this would be too much of an exciting news for some people, ie three huggin hippies (sorry, I just like this expression).
Maybe they fear some massive expression of joy similar to riots or something... I don't really believe a news like this would bring a new level of chaos on earth, but maybe some people do.

Just some random thoughts..


[Edited on 9-2-2004 by m0rbid]

I would think that because the NASA scientists don't really know the properties of any finds of life on Mars, it would not reach the general public. For example, the life found, if ever, could be harmful to humans.

I also think they would cover up important finds, too, because NASA is controlled by Intelligence agencies within the U.S.; the scientists have watch-dogs over their shoulders 24/7.

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Well, IMO, they are very reluctant to release any information about possible life on Mars due to the very speculation on cover up that you mention, Kano. Any talk about extraterrestrial life, no matter how unintelligent, could potentially bring questions that NASA or other parts of our government do not want discussed by the media. The mere public discovery of life could give groups already lobbying Congress for UFO information (like CAUS and The Disclosure Project) more leverage to get such information out, and they don't want that at all I'm sure.

I would have thought it would be more of a distraction than anything else. (Although personally I remain completely unconvinced by any claimed Extraterrestrial contact event).

But even those who do subscribe to the 'ETs and the Gov't have dealings' style theories would have to admit that the discovery of life on Mars could be a massive distraction from the enquiries about ET contact etc. Keep the public focused on this basic form of ET life. (A reasonably safe assumption about any possible Martian life I think).

Even the general idea that it increases the chances of life elsewhere in the universe is a little flaky. As we really have no idea what the chances are at the moment. A sample group of 2 instead of 1 really doesn't make any difference, especially when there is the possibility that life arose one one of the planets then hitched a ride to the other inside a meteorite etc.

What sort of danger do you mean IMMORTAL? As in the life itself might be dangerous, or the knowledge?

I think that NASA and ESA would be forced to cover up their findings because it would not benefit the government. Yes it would be good for the scientific community, but the government would have a very hard time, controlling religious and cult fanatics with their various beliefs.

Is there not a Govt issued document, stating all the negativities that might occur if and when alien life is confirmed? (I believe there is, will have to research it)

I don't think the scientific or the majority of the public will be going crazy over the discovery, but there will definitely be fanatics both of religion and cults who would disrupt every day life upon the discovery of alien life, because it either supports or goes against their beliefs.

I asked some elderly friends of mine a few weeks ago, what would they do if the govt said they either contacted or discovered alien life........they said they would lock their doors and not leave their houses.

Call me crazy, but I do believe this is the kind of thinking that the government would be afraid of, if they released such info.

Originally posted by Kano
What sort of danger do you mean IMMORTAL? As in the life itself might be dangerous, or the knowledge?

I meant that the life itself, whether small, like bacteria, or larger, like small animals.

If NASA ever brought this life, I mean bacterial or otherwise, back to Earth, and found it to be harmful, there could be repercussions among the general population.

Who knows, if it was harmful, they would have to keep it quarantined, and it's possible that finds of extra-terrestrial nature could be used as a biological weapon against humans.

Ah I see, true. But all the missions at the moment are one-way missions. Plus almost a good % of all scientific discoveries can be used for nefarious ends if we so choose.

Originally posted by Kano
Ah I see, true. But all the missions at the moment are one-way missions.

Thank God, it's good to hear that. Who know what those samples could contain if they ever brought them to Earth.

I guess NASA is just scoping out the grounds before we head out on our first voyage to Mars, so we don't run into any aliens!

Originally posted by heelstone
Well, IMO, they are very reluctant to release any information about possible life on Mars due to the very speculation on cover up that you mention, Kano. Any talk about extraterrestrial life, no matter how unintelligent, could potentially bring questions that NASA or other parts of our government do not want discussed by the media. The mere public discovery of life could give groups already lobbying Congress for UFO information (like CAUS and The Disclosure Project) more leverage to get such information out, and they don't want that at all I'm sure.

I agree with Heelstone. Plus, I think it is a distraction. I beleive there is life on Mars and the government knows about it. Remember, before the media is given the pictures of Mars, NASA has to approve of them first. I'm not saying there's something the rover picked up that's alien but there's always that chance that if it did, I'm almost certain NASA would take it out before showing it to the media.

So many "can of worms" would be opened up if a goverment agency admitted to life on another planet.

Remember that ALL life must exist in a life cycle eco system. Therefore if there "is" something so then there must exist "something" else that is either prey or predator. It would be impossible for a "single" system enviroment to survive. IE any being with no natural predator will ultimatly extinguish itself.

Good thing humans are prone to cancer, virus, bacteria and other humans to keep us in check. Humans are a sort of symbiotic predator being both predator and prey.

Wars, drunk drivers, serial killers, thugs, death by human invention ie (planes) etc are all examples of humans eliminating other humans in the "life cycle".

WE ARE our own worst enemy as many have said before.

You throw in the possibility that "humans" may not be the "top of the food chain" because of the revelation of extraterrestrial life, regardless of its "current" evolution and what you get is chaos and possibly the demise of human civilization as we know it, do to our stupid concepts of superiority and ego.

Yes, but WHY mulder, thats the point of this thread.

Surely NASA et al have a lot more to gain by releasing information they might discover about life on Mars.

Kano, you are wondering about why NASA does what it does when its a government agency. Its website is www.nasa.gov... after all. If the government does not want to make its public space program branch bigger with any discovery of life, they won't. I mean, why spend money on the public program that is designed to go nowhere and keep the public uninformed when other stuff is more than likely being used in secret?

Then why go to the trouble of the MER missions at all? Why bother releasing the Raw data at all?

Originally posted by heelstone
Kano, you are wondering about why NASA does what it does when its a government agency. Its website is www.nasa.gov... after all. If the government does not want to make its public space program branch bigger with any discovery of life, they won't. I mean, why spend money on the public program that is designed to go nowhere and keep the public uninformed when other stuff is more than likely being used in secret?

I couldn't have said it any better myself. Kano, the other thing that's always bugged me is here we are putting millions of dollars into a rover on Mars that doesn't work half the time. Why? And even in the past we still kept having problems with satellites like Phobias 1 & 2. IMO, these are a waste of the taxpayers money but more than that I still believe it's all a diversion. Plus, we are still using the Space Shuttle for missions into space. I bet that even after the Shuttle Columbia disaster we will still be using the shuttle. We have scientist smart enough to build something better than the space shuttle by now.

So what is the motive? Distraction or diversion. Did you know that most Space Shuttle flights into space now are military in nature. Ever wonder why? Of course, no one in the government will ever admit that but I bet you there are alot of whistleblowers who can confirm that.

Originally posted by Kano
Then why go to the trouble of the MER missions at all? Why bother releasing the Raw data at all?

Any civilian funded front for space exploration is going to have to look like its doing something at some point. Mars for a long time now has been a public subject of curiosity, so sending little bitty robots over to slightly examine its surface is done as an attempt to sate interest.

[Edited on 9-2-2004 by heelstone]

I couldn't have said it any better myself. Kano, the other thing that's always bugged me is here we are putting millions of dollars into a rover on Mars that doesn't work half the time. Why?

Everyone seems to talk of these missions as if theres nothing to it. The MER rovers are very advanced little machines carrying out an incredibly difficult mission. Spirit only went down for a week or so, and is back at full operational capabilities. Thats hardly 'not working half the time'.

As far as using the shuttle. It is indeed possible to create a more advanced re-useable orbital vehicle. But. To do this would take a lot of funding. Funding that simply isn't forthcoming.

Did you know that most Space Shuttle flights into space now are military in nature.

I'd be interested to see statistics on this, I thought most military satellites could be orbited without needing the shuttle.

Even still, the discovery of life on Mars could really give the entire space industry a kick in the behind. More funding for more advanced shuttles. Everybody gains, even the military would have a more advanced vehicles to orbit their own equipment.

Originally posted by Kano
I'd be interested to see statistics on this, I thought most military satellites could be orbited without needing the shuttle.

Even still, the discovery of life on Mars could really give the entire space industry a kick in the behind. More funding for more advanced shuttles. Everybody gains, even the military would have a more advanced vehicles to orbit their own equipment.

Well, I got the statistics from here:

www.4dreamland.com...
4dreamland.com...

The host of this CD is Robert O. Dean. He's a retired NATO Command Seargent Maj. I find his claims to be very believable. I would recommend this to any UFO buff out there.

Gee I can think of a lot of reasons why NASA cannot tell us about life on Mars.

1. Nasa is controlled by the US military.
2. Any life on mars could pose a threat to human existance and must be exhaustively studied before revealed to the public.
3. Any lifeforms could pose strategic advantage to US military.
4. Obvious lifeforms found and commented on would make NASA look stupid in regards past comments on MARS.
5. We have no idea why they are really going to Mars do we?
6. Nasa's budgets have nothing to do with success or failures.
7. NASA doesn't trust us any more than we trust them.
8. They don't want the Russians, Chinese, Europeans, and whoever to know.
9. They already knew there was life there before going this time and they arn't even looking for that.
10. Maybe the aliens told them to shut up just like they kicked them off the moon already.

Here is the whopper!

Since we are specualting why not one that makes sense?

[fantasy_mode]

NASA began it's Terra-Forming project decades ago. It began with the very first probes. Their real purpose was for them to know the conditions on the surface.

Later probes carried genetically engineered blue-green algae. NASA told us that these probes failed, but really they worked perfectly. They circled mars, and dropped their payload of tiny little landers carrying the seeds of life.

The algae grew and flourished on Mars in the CO2 atmosphere.

The landers are in an area known to have been seeded. They were sent to check the progress of the project.

They are transmitting data other than what is being shown to the public. There really are patches of blue-green in the images, but NASA does not release the data for that.

[/fantasy_mode]