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The Holocaust was carried out by the Allies, not the Nazis! (Hypothesis)

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posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 08:05 AM
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The "Alien" theory has merit.

Imagine - that an alien race or races exercises influence over the human race

They create a system of domination through conquest and enslavement

They condition the humans to become competitive and create game based scenarios to distract the humans from their own reality and the possible alien agenda

Then it is quite plausible that, the aliens needing a world of fear and repulsion
would plan and implement both a program of mass murder called "war" and create reality traps, like "debate" over the Holocaust.

The on going debate distracts us all from the deepest crime which is the taking of human life, "all life is precious and must be preserved"

60 million human died during WWII 58 million were civilians.

It only furthers planetary division to debate the possibility that the life of a Jewish concentration camp prisoner has a different value than a Russian non Jewish soldier.

When we subjugate the human race to assess blame for the horrors of a war we are serving the same masters that fooled us into beliiving there was a reason for the war in the first place.

Research the people who funded the NAZI war machine and you will discover
corporations with relationships that include international banking elites as well as "bloodlines" that lead to todays world leaders




posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 08:06 AM
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S, how about you answer some of the relevant questions that have been posed by other members, like my friend KilgoreTrout?

In case you missed it, I'll quote the relevant point:

Could you tell me which supply lines were actually cut by these Allied actions? It was my understanding that the rail network to the camps were not adversely affected by bombings or sabotage for any considerable period. Could you please provide some supporting sources that these supply lines were indeed cut?


You can find the full post here

You come onto ATS with a thread marked as "indisputable" but offer nothing but opnion with little source information to back it up. Is it really shocking that not very many people buy it?

[edit on 26-12-2007 by InSpiteOf]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 08:07 AM
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reply to post by scientist
 


As I understand it reports of what was happening reached the west as early as 39 (I think) but no one wanted to believe it, it was too horrific. FDR wanted us involved and if they had had indesputable evidence at the time I think he would have used it to get the American population outraged enough to enter it earlier... after all we really did not emerge from the depression until the war machine was going and it would have been far better for the country if it had started sooner.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by benign.psychosis
 


Once again, having the opportunity to reply to MY post, you reply to an emotional one, this leads me to believe that you KNOW your posting incorrect information, which is a direct violation of the ATS T&C.

If you do not want emotional posts, do not reply to them and reply to the factual posts, like mine



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 08:18 AM
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reply to post by InSpiteOf
 


star for you, I agree, the OP is ignoring facts and replying only to emotional posts, he is running from the facts.

Which is a sure sign he knows it is REFUTABLE



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by benign.psychosis


It should be telling that after two pages of posts, no one has the courage to answer the question of the action:



What effects does the destroying of supply lines to concentration camps holding upwards of 250,000 people have - and what actions caused the disruption?


This is the question.


OK, I'll answer the question. I haven't finished reading this whole thread, so I apologize if someone else has said this already. The effect of destroying the supply lines is obvious, in that it would breed hunger and disease. That being said, in regard to you last question, the REAL question, "what actions caused the disruption?"...I can't seriously believe you don't understand the answer to your question...What caused the disruption was the Nazis putting people in concentration camps and invading Europe at large. HAd they not done these things, no one would have bombed them, no people in concentration camps to BE starved by broken supply lines, etc. You want CAUSALITY? There it is...don't make excuses for anyone.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by thewightknight
However, no war-time government would place a large number of a single race and culture into a camp to 'protect' them. It is just not what is done. A city in wartime remains a city, just one destined to full-work capactiy. I just don't agree.


I'd hate for you to open your eyes, but sure they would.

I thought I made that clear about the Japanese concentration camps in Canada and the US during WWII. They were used to 'protect' the Japanese. See EO 9066. Yes, Japanese were also not allowed to enter the country either. Yes, Japanese homes were raided - so where Germans and Italians. The official number of Japanese interned was 120,000 in the US, I'm not sure about Canada - could be more, could be less. It doesn't really matter.

Imagine what would happen to the inmates there if the supply lines to those camps were cut by an invasive force - it is not hard to do. How do you think the inmates would survive? Would they starve without food? Would they get sick and diseased without medicine? Would disease spread?

Whoever the invading force was would have no trouble at all making it look like a genocide - in order to fulfill an agenda.

The US had no trouble at all making the bombing of the Marine barraks in Lebanon looking like a terrorist attack. The propaganda machine had no problem putting the 100,000,000 Indians killed out of the public mind - it was just as easy as keeping the *much smaller* number of Jewish deaths in the public mind. It is for a purpose.

Do you really think governments don't do this? It is a normal thing. So is racist propaganda. Here is an example of US government sponsored propaganda from WWII:





Labor camps, concentration camps, internment camps - these are all normal things during war, and peacetime.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by drumist69

Originally posted by benign.psychosis


It should be telling that after two pages of posts, no one has the courage to answer the question of the action:



What effects does the destroying of supply lines to concentration camps holding upwards of 250,000 people have - and what actions caused the disruption?


This is the question.


OK, I'll answer the question. I haven't finished reading this whole thread, so I apologize if someone else has said this already. The effect of destroying the supply lines is obvious, in that it would breed hunger and disease. That being said, in regard to you last question, the REAL question, "what actions caused the disruption?"...I can't seriously believe you don't understand the answer to your question...What caused the disruption was the Nazis putting people in concentration camps and invading Europe at large. HAd they not done these things, no one would have bombed them, no people in concentration camps to BE starved by broken supply lines, etc. You want CAUSALITY? There it is...don't make excuses for anyone.


You can trace it back as far as you want, and you know what you arrive at? Either God or the Big bang. Even so, your reasoning is flawed. You are attempting describe a situation in which a concentration camp must have it's supply lines cut - in order to let those inside die - because people are being put there by a force that is invading Europe.



What caused the disruption was the Nazis putting people in concentration camps and invading Europe at large

No, this was only the consensus that concluded with the cause and so the effect. Morality, choice, intent, perception - they are of no relavence.

The final outcome of each is always the same: The action - it is what dictates the effect.

That is where the truth is.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by benign.psychosis
 




This in effect not only applies to doctored photos (it wasn't impossible before computers), but especially ambiguous photos that are labeled in a certain context, thereby altering what the person believes they are seeing without changing the image.


So you post pics in the same manner



It should be telling that after two pages of posts, no one has the courage to answer the question of the action:


and you have not had the courage to reply to ours?




I thought I made that clear about the Japanese concentration camps in Canada and the US during WWII. They were used to 'protect' the Japanese. See EO 9066. Yes, Japanese were also not allowed to enter the country either. Yes, Japanese homes were raided - so where Germans and Italians. The official number of Japanese interned was 120,000 in the US, I'm not sure about Canada - could be more, could be less. It doesn't really matter.


the interned Japanese were not forced labor, or gassed, or tortured, or beaten to death or used in medical experiments or used as sex slaves. if you have proof otherwise ( that does not include your great grand dad of course) please provide it



You're argument does not align with reality.


You're words sir, not mine but they do apply

The strawman is on fire

[edit on 26-12-2007 by thedigirati]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by benign.psychosis
The Zionisist's own protocols admit to NWO tactics and depopulation, but that doesn't actually mean they created it. That doesn't mean they didn't either. It only means that it exists.


oh dear. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is your proof? the most anti-semetic book every written?

You've just proven your too reason behind this thread by just mentioning the fake document


[edit on 26-12-2007 by infinite]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by grover
reply to post by scientist
 


As I understand it reports of what was happening reached the west as early as 39 (I think) but no one wanted to believe it, it was too horrific.


I don't find that as an acceptable view, and I don't buy it.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:25 AM
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the truth ?

thje truth is that there is nothing begbign about " begnign.psychosis " it is a troll of the lowest order .

its ` logic ` is fatally flawed


We're not going to concentrate on traces of gas in a gas chamber - it only proves gas was there, no proof of how it was used. Testimoney is not proof. Papers are not proof. Reality is the only proof we are concerned
with. We won't concentrate on piles of dead bodies - it only proves piles of dead bodies, not how they died. We won't concentrate on mass graves, they only prove that graves were dug to place dead bodies.


the statements in this paragraph are not even make sense as stand alone claims

in several articles in this thread B.P talks about " context " , how quickly it ignores the contextual links between all the threads of evidence it claims are irrelevant

he also ignores all relevant questions - focusing only on strawmen and off topic arguments

lastly ,


I have to protect the source of this information


the old canard

but even accepting this cop out - one has to ask :

what form this information takes ?

i hope it isnt testimony , papes , photographs or film

because it has dismissed all these as irrelevant

so what is the information in ????

B.P cannot have it both ways



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by thedigirati
The strawman is on fire


I totally agree. Once again the OP has glossed over the more deep questions, while answering others with theory.

OP: You ask what would happen to the Japanese that were interned if the supply lines were cut by an invading force, but you have yet to prove that allied attacks did successfully cut supply lines from the camps in Europe.

I refer you to my previous post (only a few up from your more recent ones) which will direct you to a very relevant question.

My post



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:37 AM
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed that the OP has completely and utterly failed to respond to the logical arguments and questions put forward and has, instead, only offered viewpoints, no facts and seized upon the more emotional posts to further propagate his rather distasteful viewpoints.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:40 AM
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Regardless of opinion we must all consider the truth behind one statement we have all heard many times before:

"History is written by the victor."

There is no way for us to currently read through history books and fully understand the actions taken and the reprecutions of those actions. The OP makes good point, context is the key to all written documentation and the context is controlled by the writer, not the facts surrounding the issue.

Very interesting regardless of personal opinion.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by benign.psychosis
The Zionisist's own protocols admit to NWO tactics and depopulation, but that doesn't actually mean they created it. That doesn't mean they didn't either. It only means that it exists.


The Protocols of Zion have been known to be a fraud and a forgery for almost a century now. You just totally blew your arguments right out of the water by citing them.

Scientist: You may not accept that, and I am not so sure I do either but that is what I have read in quite a few different sources so take it as you will. The fact remains that the United States had a strong isolationist streak in the 30's that grew only stronger as the 40's approached taking Pearl Harbor to break its hold on the American psyche. And, given the fact that gearing up for war is what finally ended the depression; if FDR had had other means to getting us into the war earlier, he would have used them. So that is what leads credence (to me anyway) as to why the death camp reports were either not believed or used to stoke up support for entering the war... if you catch my drift.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by thedigirati
So you post pics in the same manner



Exactly.



and you have not had the courage to reply to ours?


I've merely asked a question - I have not asked anyone to supply me with sources, links, book titles or anything else. I could name anything I wanted to - it is of no relavence. I am not the one to do the foot work here.

If you want information about history, you will be the one to look up "proper history". On the occasion that such compiled information is not available on the internet, I will be accused of lying. If it is on an "unacceptable source" it will be deemed untrue.

For starters, I suggest you analyze maps of Europe's railway infrastructure and cross reference with bombing raid locations.

If you want to do the foot work to view the truth - fine. I am not here to spoon feed you information, but I am here to guide you toward the right direction. I am not your professor, and I will not give you answers to the exam - I will, however, suggest that you read the textbook and do the research.

Now, depending on how much you want to know of the truth, you will do one of two things:

1) Do what I suggested, and aspire to find the truth
2) Ignore my advice and claim that I am a liar.

The first involves the action.
The second involves the inaction.

This is the guage that we use to measure our search for the truth.

The truth is in the action.



the interned Japanese were not forced labor, or gassed, or tortured, or beaten to death or used in medical experiments or used as sex slaves. if you have proof otherwise ( that does not include your great grand dad of course) please provide it


On the contrary, please provide proof - from someone who is not someone else's grandad that what you say is correct.

Your hypocracy is deep.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by benign.psychosis
The Zionisist's own protocols admit to NWO tactics and depopulation, but that doesn't actually mean they created it. That doesn't mean they didn't either. It only means that it exists.


oh dear. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is your proof? the most anti-semetic book every written?

You've just proven your too reason behind this thread by just mentioning the fake document


[edit on 26-12-2007 by infinite]


Examples are not proof; However, evidence amounts to proof.

If you are looking to examples for proof, you are looking in the wrong place for truth.

A belief is not truth. Truth is in the action. It is true that something exists or doesn't. It is belief as to weather it is real or not.

Belief is of no relavence.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:48 AM
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I can understand what you are saying. That the allies unintentionally had a hand in the deaths of the prisoners in these camps, be they "death camps" or "labor camps". But in that hypothetical story of yours you also imply that Germany had no intention of killing off an entire race. That what happened was just bad luck and then the evil allies pinned it on them so as to cover up the "fact" that they had anything to do with the deaths at all.

I believe this to be pure fantasy. Personally, I think the allies would rather that the world know that they did have a hand in the deaths, but it was completely accidental and sadly something that comes with war. Cutting off those supply lines, as you claim they did, would have helped them tremendously in defeating the enemy. Regretfully, it also made these prisoners suffer even more.

But, that is war unfortunately. In war, thousands of tragedies would happen almost every single day. In world war II, thousands of attrocities also happened every single day, not because of the allied bombing of these supply lines, but because the Nazis had every intention of killing off all the Jews (among other "inferior" people).

So stick with your opinion that the allies caused some of these deaths, but realise that what you are saying in your post is taking almost all of the blame for the holocaust away from the Nazis. This is what some people are finding offensive.

Also, just personal story here, while researching for a talk I had to do at school on Hitler I read a story written by a Jewish Holocaust survivor and it was horrific. It told of how he and his family were forced to march single-file down a road. The line of people went on for hundreds of men, women and children. They then got to a point where they were forced to remove all clothing, jewellary and glasses, and were lead into pits full of dead bodies. The nazis then forced them to lay down on top of eachother. Someone would then come along and send a single bullet down the back of the top persons neck, hopefully killing all of them at once.

The reason I bring this up is because, how do you propose the allies would explain this away had the nazis not been responisble for the holocaust and these bodies were found?



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:49 AM
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I said it once and I will say it again... you have no clue what you are talking about.



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