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The Holocaust was carried out by the Allies, not the Nazis! (Hypothesis)

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posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 04:11 AM
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[EDIT: Removed erroneous double post.]

/tn.





[edit on 26-12-2007 by teleonaut]




posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 04:20 AM
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one word : " Einsatzgruppen " explain how thier actions were ` allied colateral damage `



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 04:25 AM
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Originally posted by Nickdfresh

Well, what do you call it then?

Did the Holocaust happen?

I think it becomes "denial" when one denies culpability of the Germans in genocide between 1941 to 1945.

What is you're opinion, "scientist?"
[edit on 26/12/07 by Nickdfresh]


Well, it would seem that America is guilty of genocide too...look at the nukes on the civilians of Japan...very nice indeed and warm and friendly.


Oh, forgot, we must turn a blind eye...

I like the post on page 5 of this thread by 'spoodily' - sums things up nicely for those who care to see.


Originally posted by Spoodily
I like how all the people of Earth are placed on specific teams and play a game of war every now and then with well defined rules that everyone follows by the book, where the 'teams' are countries and the soldiers are players. The citizens are the cheering fans with deep emotional attachment to their assigned 'team'. Who puts on this spectacle?


Peace

dAlen

[edit on 26-12-2007 by dAlen]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 04:57 AM
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as i have a lot of fammily that dident make it out of the camps i can only aske one thing to benign.psychosis how SNIP are you or let me guess you support the neonazi ? that can be the only reason for being this dumb

Mod Note: Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 26-12-2007 by sanctum]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 05:02 AM
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For those who think they are somehow proving a point by posting the ravings of people in the camps: Stop it.

Appealing to compassion does not create truth. Silly antecdotes are of no consequence. You'd be better off getting the story from a crazy person, which wouldn't be too far from what you are doing.

Hallucinations



A hallucination occurs when environmental, emotional, or physical factors such as stress, medication, extreme fatigue, or mental illness cause the mechanism within the brain that helps to distinguish conscious perceptions from internal, memory-based perceptions to misfire. As a result, hallucinations occur during periods of consciousness. They can appear in the form of visions, voices or sounds, tactile feelings (known as haptic hallucinations), smells, or tastes.


Now, add starvation to that. Add extreme fear. Add piles of dead bodies who died from disease. Add piles of diseased corpses that are getting burned. Add witnessing the execution of diseased and crazed individuals.

Tell, me, - what would you think was going on if you were undergoing hallucinations and your mind was operating at nearly unconscious levels?

Well, you know what you'd think what you got out. You'd think exactly what the media, the allied propaganda, was shoving down the public throat.

Oh, it only happens today? Please. These people, especially, were ready for mental manipulation - much more than the sheeple of today. They were the perfect people to take advantage of and have their memories and their minds toyed with. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing was a predecessor to programs like MKULTRA.

Fake Photos alter Real memories



Some researchers are worried that digitally altered photos could alter our perceptions and memories of public events.

...

"It’s potentially a form of human engineering that could be applied to us against our knowledge and against our wishes, and we ought to be vigilant about it," said UC Irvine psychologist Elizabeth Loftus ...



This in effect not only applies to doctored photos (it wasn't impossible before computers), but especially ambiguous photos that are labeled in a certain context, thereby altering what the person believes they are seeing without changing the image.

Seeing an ambiguous photo labeled as such, or seeing a doctored photo with smoke added in the background - what would this do to someone who survived in a concentration camp, with limited, almost nonexistant mental capacity?

"Prisoners" survived well

How about the viewpoint of a healty, mentally sound guard who has come out of his own accord?

Unless you have been programmed to hate the "evil nazi monster death bringers" then it would only make sense to take their statements with a bit more validity that the internees.



Hafner, 84, continues to make outrageous statements that would put him behind bars in Germany or Austria, no government has sought to prosecute him.

He calls the death camp of Auschwitz, where 1.1 million Jews were murdered, "a ten star hotel" where "Jews were sent for their own protection. All that stuff about murder is Allied propaganda crap."


So who do you believe? The Nazis? The Prisoners? The "Official report" ?

You shouldn't believe any of them. Look at the actions. The truth is there -in the cause and in the effect.

Yeah, Hitler talked about it - but if that is proof for you, then you are grasping. People talk about stuff all the time. Rockefeller talked about creating a one-world government. John Lear talks about bases on the moon. Bush ran his campaign by talking about a humble foreign policy.

You get the drill.

I can only divulge so much information. Do you expect that *proof* of sat tech is floating around the internet? Do you expect that I have it? Do you expect that I would share *proof* of it if I have it?

It would be irrational to think so.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 05:06 AM
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posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 05:09 AM
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posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 05:16 AM
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ROFL


I thought this thread was titled:

The Holocaust was carried out by the Aliens, not the Nazis! Indisputable!

Either way - a total bogus post worthy of ridicule.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 05:41 AM
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Originally posted by Nickdfresh

Originally posted by scientist
could someone kindly link me to a post somewhere in this thread where someone is promoting holocaust denial? From the OPs first post, to every reply following it, I haven't noticed anything about holocaust denial, but rather skepticism as to who was really behind the holocaust.


Well, what do you call it then?

Did the Holocaust happen?

I think it becomes "denial" when one denies culpability of the Germans in genocide between 1941 to 1945.

What is you're opinion, "scientist?"


Think about 9/11. People here debate all day whether it was the islamic terrorists, or the US government. Regardless of who orchestrated the event, it DID happen. Just like the holocaust - regardless of who orchestrated it, something tragic happened.

The sad thing is, people can't even question the motive behind the holocaust without being thrown into the same camp as holocaust deniers.


Originally posted by topsecretombomb
Many claim the Nazi infastructure was never exterminated that it just "relocated" to America.


Yup, I'm pretty much in that camp.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 06:20 AM
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reply to post by benign.psychosis
 


I did not put any "ravings" up in my post but I noticed you have ignored it, Why is that, I can only speculate. I would really be interested in how it can be that you have disregarded my post? Could it be because you cannot refute it? If this is so, it shows the fallacy of your postulation.




How about the viewpoint of a healty, mentally sound guard who has come out of his own accord?





An unrepentant old Nazi officer who served in some of the worst concentration camps gives the Hitler salute in Spain where he has hidden from justice for over 60 years


erm yes, he has no motivation to lie, considering his position as a fugitive.

[edit on 26-12-2007 by thedigirati]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 06:33 AM
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Mod Note: Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link.


When I read this in response to a post by someone who's Family paid dearly; I could not help but wonder, in what way is the OP's post courteous to those it has offended. This is NO Conspiracy Theory. It is a purposeful posting of a lie for one reason and one reason only. Too twist the knife yet again. This demeans ATS that it even exists here and it is the shame of the whole Human Race that this exists anywhere in our genetic makeup. I'd far rather see ATS allow all forms of profanity than this. If this is not a Personal Attack what is?



I will not be flagging this or adding a star to the OP's honor. I'm ashamed to be on the same Board as this obscene post. This proves that it can and probably will happen all over again.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 06:48 AM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


As much as it pains me to say this, it's this KIND of post that SHOULD get publicity, to make people aware of this insidious and odious mindset.

Shining a light on darkness cause the darkness to recede, the light of Knowledge will always overcome the darkness of ignorance and intolerance.

I personally detest benign.psychosis position, However, as a former Marine I will defend with my life his right to it. This person is free to espouse his thoughts and ideas, it's up to the rest of to show logic and courtesy while tearing it to shreds.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 06:58 AM
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reply to post by thedigirati
 

I'm sure you are right. It's hard to digest though. It is a bitter pill.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 07:09 AM
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Honely, you make a very good point. Of course the US bombed supply lines and cities and just nearly anything that moved, it is war, it is what you do. And obviously this would cause damage and problems and what not.

However, no war-time government would place a large number of a single race and culture into a camp to 'protect' them. It is just not what is done. A city in wartime remains a city, just one destined to full-work capactiy. I just don't agree.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by thewightknight
However, no war-time government would place a large number of a single race and culture into a camp to 'protect' them. It is just not what is done. A city in wartime remains a city, just one destined to full-work capactiy. I just don't agree.


oh ya, what about Japenese Internment Camps here in the US? Was that not a government putting a large number of people in a single race/culture into a camp to "protect" them?



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 07:23 AM
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reply to post by scientist
 


So you are going to use a wrong perpetrated against those Americans wrongly detained during wwII here, to excuse the Holocaust in Europe? There is no comparison that even remotely approaches valid.

Try again.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by scientist
 


So you are going to use a wrong perpetrated against those Americans wrongly detained during wwII here, to excuse the Holocaust in Europe? There is no comparison that even remotely approaches valid.

Try again.


I wasn't making a comparison, I was making a statement to point out a hypocritical flaw in logic. Please refrain from putting words into my mouth to promote your own agenda. Excuse the Holocaust?
What post were you reading? Deny ignorance.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555


Mod Note: Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link.


When I read this in response to a post by someone who's Family paid dearly; I could not help but wonder, in what way is the OP's post courteous to those it has offended. This is NO Conspiracy Theory. It is a purposeful posting of a lie for one reason and one reason only. Too twist the knife yet again. This demeans ATS that it even exists here and it is the shame of the whole Human Race that this exists anywhere in our genetic makeup. I'd far rather see ATS allow all forms of profanity than this. If this is not a Personal Attack what is?



I will not be flagging this or adding a star to the OP's honor. I'm ashamed to be on the same Board as this obscene post. This proves that it can and probably will happen all over again.


This is a good example of people not being able to see the truth, because they were blinded by words and emotion.

That poster, who you are referring to, registered today, started no threads, and his only 3 replies were in this thread. I would not be surprised if the motivation behind the name "2reel4you" has implications regarding the reality of the holocaust. I would imagine that someone did want to risk their original account, and created another one to spew insults.

As a matter of fact, I know exactly who it is, but I will not say.

What he has said is of no relavence and only appeals to emotion - not to reality.

The simple fact is that you believe what you want to, and is it clear in your postt. You accept to believe him based on nothing other than his testimony in saying that he lost family members because it suits your world view.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 07:59 AM
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Having known some people who survived the death camps all I can say is that you haven't a clue as to what you are talking about.

The Nazi's were meticulious record keepers and as a result they left a paper trail a mile wide. They knew what they were doing and it started well before the war.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by grover
The Nazi's were meticulious record keepers and as a result they left a paper trail a mile wide. They knew what they were doing and it started well before the war.


which seems to give more credit to the theory that the US was allowing everything to happen as planned, and only stepped in when it was advantageous. Not that the US is known for being immorally opportunistic or anything



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