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The Holocaust was carried out by the Allies, not the Nazis! (Hypothesis)

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posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 12:30 PM
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or is benign.psychosis part of the staff ????




posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 12:35 PM
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and the staff can give as many warnings they like when people like benign.psychosis offends me like this i realy dont care



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 12:53 PM
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2reel4u :

please do not blame the staff for your own failings

the staff do not agree with B.P as they have edited his thread title to remove his claim of ` indesputable `

by accident or design - B.P has not yet violated the ATS terms and conditions

you however have - repeatedly and are now flinging accusations , not a good way to go

every one else in the thread managed to totally demolish B.Ps claims without resort to insult and other T&C violations , why couldnt you ?

it is an emmotive subject - but they key is to keep your head , while all around you are loosing thiers

your outbursts are what trolls like B.G thrive on - please deny him the satisfaction



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 01:11 PM
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The holocaust was orchestrated by the Germans. They set it in motion, but it was carried out by most Axis occupied countries in Europe, few have their hands clean. Responsibility for the vast majority of deaths lies with the Nazis for sure.
At the same time here's another angle. I've got a Hungarian friend. He left Hungary in 1956 during the failed revolt against the Soviets. He swears that as a child he saw the extermination of Jews outside his town. He watched the execution risking his life in doing so. He states that it was the Soviets that massacred those Jews and afterwards put out the news that the Nazis had killed them!
Now there were Soviet units and Soviet units. Top Red Army troops and others more or less affiliated to the army. That's all I can say in response to his claim, attrocities were committed by all sides and many East Europeans did not want Jews to return post 1945! Look at the post war Polish pogroms, these things did happen.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by benign.psychosis
 


You have the logic of a slime ball defense lawyer who says the rape victim wanted it.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 02:35 PM
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Any logical reasonable thinking person with the correct info woul come the the same conclusion that OP presented.

The "true believers" are like all those who have been indoctrinated into any "faith". They believe without examining the evidnce. When they find evidence to the contrary of their belief they make great distortions to make it fit their "belief".



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by magicmushroom
 


I am not sure what you are trying to say here. The US did not come along till very late in WWII, I am sure you cannot be saying that. They were pract dragged into helping

The Establishment of the Jewish homeland was designed before WWII in 1917 by Arthur J Balfour, A British Foreign Secretary the (Balfour Declaration) and partitioning was approved in 1947 by the United Nations.

I hear that you believe wars are designed, I do believe some have been, but some wars are because they are offensive to the world community on a whole.

[edit on 26-12-2007 by birchtree]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 03:08 PM
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To OP
You've taken what's in the history books, and changed it with your own opinion. You haven't presented one fact with proof on anything that you've said.

BTW- what difference does it make to you, what do you have to gain by making up a story, and calling the official story made up?

[edit on 26-12-2007 by efbeenie]

[edit on 26-12-2007 by efbeenie]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by mr-lizard
 


The concentration camps in which Britain killed 27000 Boer women and children during the Second War of Independence (1899 - 1902)

I know it is another subject but it is prob what you are talking about, It is a hard find but it happened, as Kenya happened. and Rwanda and as Darfur is happening now

[edit on 26-12-2007 by birchtree]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 03:12 PM
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i was hoping my replies to this thread would put some more steam in the theory of Allies being behind the Holocaust just as much as the Nazis, but I guess all of the ad hominem attacks against the OP is killing any chance of an actual discussion in here.

What a shame, I find this to be an extremely riveting topic. I've seen more ignorance from people other than the OP in here, it's shocking. Not in that anyone is spouting lies, but rather 90% of the people in this thread seem to be reading what they want, not what has been written.

Oh well, I'll follow suit and retire from this thread as well. Hopefully the next time this topic is brought up, it will get some more discussion as opposed to a childish lunchroomesque debate.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by OhZone
 



Any logical reasonable thinking person with the correct info woul come the the same conclusion that OP presented.


what utter twaddle

BTW what consists of the ` correct information `

to be specific please explain the mortality rates in the camps and nazi hospitals pre 1939 and in the period upto 1940 when only military targets were bombed

also explain the death toll of the einsatzgruppen

these were murders and exterminations pure and simple in the ` face ` of zero allied attack or interdictions



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 03:17 PM
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Birch the point I am making is that modern wars come about by design with their outcome already planned, no war can be fought without the aid of the bankers and who are they, who is it that proffits from the planning and the prosecution of war.

It does not take a rocket scientist to work out that right out from the start neither Germany or Japan had any chance of wining ww2, therefore it was a planned conflict with clear losers and winners known from the outset.

The OP's staement from the start is correct, we knew about the camps and it suited our purpose to let things happen and we did bomb every train, town and supply dump in Germany, whom is the most guilty those who carry out the deed or those who plan it and allow it to happen.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by benign.psychosis
 


If you truly believe as your tread implies, than I suggest you take up residency in IRAN. Your views will be appreciated there....
You are free to believe as you wish. I will say that I find your view of the world quite flawed. My uncle helped liberate the Jews. His word is all I need, that fact that history books agree with his words only proves my point. You, my friend are what I like to call an idiot. Have a nice day.
Personally I believe this tread is Iranian propaganda. You would have to be paid to sound so stupid. I hope it was worth it.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 03:25 PM
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psychosis:

First and foremost the Holocaust reefers (heh heh I said reefer) to the mass slaughter and torture of the Jewish people NOT the Japanese

Secondly, you imply that the nazi's had Japanese labor camps to protect them from the anti-Japanese racism that was somehow rampant across Nazi Germany despite the fact that they were allied together.

Thirdly, if you were implying that the story was about the Jewish people than you are of course wholly disregarding every single piece of nazi propaganda in existance, not to mention hitlers speeches (some ofwhich have been recorded on video tape) because you say that the people in the camps have a decent enough life before the supply lines were cut.

So despite all these facts. You claim that the allies were the ones who commited the holocaust by "forcing" the nazis to do all of those things.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 03:29 PM
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Again what many are failing to do is look at the whole picture from start to finish, it is not in dispute that the Germans amongst others were responsible for all manor of henious crimes against to humanity, but all participants have blood on their hands. But on a higher level those who planned this conflict and supplied the perps are lost in the smoke screens.

Should the Holocaust become a holy cow that cannot be touched no it should not, too many have to much to gain from keeping the alleged facts as they are. One must question the reasons of those who would seek to make international law against the debate of the validity of said Holocaust, the country in question and its people Israel are in continuous receipt of billions of free money because of said event and that alone should make one enquire of the validity of such an event.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 03:38 PM
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Sceptical, it is not polite to call people names even if you dont agree with them, we all have a right to our views and opinions. As for your uncle his stories to you are not proof, they are just one persons views of an event in a period of time and whilst such views may have a part to play they are just opinions at the end of the day and not facts.

Your uncle was not present during the interment lives of those people so at best he has observations of an event, 10 people can observe a particular event and all would give you a slightly differnet version of what they observed, unfortunately it is a human trait to try and convince others of what you saw and they did not and accept as real and factual.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard
Somebody once told me that the original concentration camps were invented by the British.

Dunno how true that is...


The term 'concentration camp' is ambiguous as they have been used in the past by other nations, the UK included.

I think the point of the post is the use of camps to process Jews for death.

No-one but the Nazis have done this.

Einstein helped to create the atom bomb. That does not make him repsonsible for the deaths in Hiroshima or Nagasaki.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by magicmushroom
 


Sorry. I am a person who is well known for controlling my emotions. I am usually very calm. This person struck a huge nerve. I will not read any more posts in this tread. If these topics begin to take a hold ATS.... I will resign as a member.

This tread is nearly as bad as the common treads about bushies blowing up the trade centers.

But..... we live in a free country, If he wants to be nuts, lets give him prozac. If he takes it great, if not.... I will just quit reading his posts.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 04:05 PM
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sounds like you're in denial that america isn't "gods country".

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Removed quote of entire post directly above

[edit on 26/12/07 by masqua]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
the country in question and its people Israel are in continuous receipt of billions of free money because of said event and that alone should make one enquire of the validity of such an event.


Why is that?

Would you think the ones paying the money (if there is still reparations going on) would be the ones to determine the truth? Have you ever thought that just maybe the Jews are just trying to maintain the facts, and those who are against them are trying to distort them?

That part of history is rapidly coming to a closed as those affected by it die off, but no matter what the situation was it needs be remembers as a tragic event. Millions of Jews were persecuted and killed in the Nazi established ghettos of Poland and then the Nazi established death camps in Poland. These are facts that cannot be denied. The empirical data is there, and the physical structures are there, and the eye witness accounts on all sides of the fences are there. This doesn’t even take into account the 1 to 2 million killed outside of these camps in Russia, Germany and other countries.

Those that feel the need to disregard the over abundance of empirical data on this is on their own agenda that is not about the truth.




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