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Ron Paul Really in your best interest?

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posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 06:58 AM
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I am making this post based on my personal observations alone so to say i can prove anything, i cannot. This is only ment to make you think outside the box on this whole Ron paul fever that is going down.

Take a look at what he is saying(no particular order), eliminating IRS, eliminate income tax, change forieng policy to not interfering with forieng afairs, stop printing money from thin air(bring back gold standard), equalize inflation for middle and lower class, stop borrowing money from forieng investors.

First take a look at equalizing inflation for the lower to middle class. The only way i can precive this as even possible, since inflation is based on the value of the dollar, is by increasing the wages of the lower to middle class people. This seams good in the short term, but how is a manufacturer based in the US supposed to remain competetive if it has to pay it's workers say double the amount that they would have to pay else where? the sad fact is that most small manufacturers and small businesses would go broke because they could not compete in the international market. This would result in only one thing more unemployment and a higher poverty rate undoing any good that comes from equalizing inflation.

Eliminating income tax and IRS is some what a path down the same road as above but on a scale that crosses all the classes. The porpuse of the income tax is not to pay for everything the country needs flat out, but to help minimize the amount of debt collected on a yearly basis and to keep the country operational. Cut the income tax and the countries debt will not only increase at record rates, but utillites, roads and any essencial service will degrade due to lack of funding. The US would basicaly be forced to do in debt what people do here already borrow more bedt to pay off the old debt therefor increasing overall debt. Think the bridges and utilities are bad now? Just wait.

Bringing back the gold standard would be like adding an exponent value to the trouble we are already seeing above. Doing this would have 2 instant effects, 1 it would raise the value of the dollar to the highest value in the world and 2 almost all the money in the US would disapear in an instant. Say you won the lottery for 30million, well to bad that is ony about 30 bucks US now. but hey maybe you could buy up about 30000 english pounds with the only gold backed dollar in the world! It should be easy to see that any single dollar value gain from this would be completly wipped out by loss in dollar amount.

Stopping borrowing money from forieng investors is another idea that sounds good in the present. No better way to get out of debt with forieng powers then to stop borrowing and pay them back right? well unfortunatly this is very naive at best because an action like this would be a double edged sword. Think of it this way, would you keep investing in somebody if they completly pulled out and stopped investing in you? Hell no. you would lose money. Thats like having a freeloader in your pocket. also remember that we already have a huge debt with most of these countries, they pull out and call in the debt the US would be left pennyless. Many would counter this by saying the US can become self sufficiant, have it's own people working to fill it's own needs. People with this view are totaly unaware of how many people you actually have! As it stands now the US is already going through a drinking water crises and considering borrowing from Canada. If all of the above mentioned goes down there is no way you could supply enough clean drinking water for all the people in the US and Canada isn't going to give it to ya for free. Thats just water, there is also the small matter of feeding all these people, there is no way there is enough agricultural land in the US to feed all the people there. We are talking FAMIN on a massive scale.

Ron Paul for 08? you decide, just don't drag down Canada with you.




posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 07:05 AM
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You will notice that i didn't comment on messing with other countries forieng afairs. thats because i feel i lack the knowledge to full understand how this will impact the US. But my opinion is that it is to keep the econemy afloat by aquirering natural resources and other monetary funds. Another opinion is that the debt currently present was manufactured so that one world order was not only possble but nessesary to sustain the people.

[edit on 25-12-2007 by Peacfulloffering]

[edit on 25-12-2007 by Peacfulloffering]



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 07:48 AM
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This country's economy and way of life is going to hell in a hand basket no matter who ends up in office. The damage has already been done and has been exacerbated by the Bush administration who went in and basically gutted everything that they could out of what was left and have nearly completely sold us out to global and foreign interests.

Ron Paul has good intentions and I will vote for him in an attempt to stave off what seems like the inevitable. But honestly the problems are of such magnitude that he may only be capable of slowing the bleeding on an ultimately terminal patient. The system seems too powerful and corrupt and has such inertia that it may have to completely collapse and then rebuilt from the ground up for any real positive change to really occur.

Oh yeah and - Merry Christmas!



[edit on 25-12-2007 by CyberTruth]



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by CyberTruth
 


Exactly my thought on some points here, too little too late. I think this would have worked back in the early to mid 1800's, but at present it would be kind of like going out in a flash instead of the slow burn that the economy is currently in. there must be another way.

it just seams increadibly deceptive to take advantage of ignorance to these issues. He must know that what he is saying is the equivalent to national suicide if he has the intelegence to organize this kind of a covert campain.

[edit on 25-12-2007 by Peacfulloffering]



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 08:57 AM
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hello,
im curious, who do you currently think would be good for america?

without going into every point you bring up, some are valid by the way, i will say that if America continues on its current path of 21st century imperialism, and the slow eroding of civil rights it will go down in history just like the British empire, Roman empire.. etc.
Does Ron Paul have all the answers? nope, i would be worried if he did, but he is a step in the right direction considering where we've been heading and where a path like this leads.

When you talk about inflation, i think there is alot of confusion about how it works. Paul wouldnt be "equalizing inflation for the middle class by raising wages. inflation is simply too much money in circulation. and by having so many dollars chasing goods the value of those dollars go down.
in a perfect world there wouldnt be a single dollar in circulation that doesnt represent some sort of asset. But every government through history i can think of resorted to some sort of currency devaluation to pay its debts. the only way to keep this in check is to have the currency linked to a store of value (ie the gold standard)

Getting rid of the income tax is part of Pauls stance because if you reduce spending you wont need all that money. plus leaving the money people worked for in their pocket will make them spend more money..
According the the Budget of the US govt. fiscal year 2008 51% of tax revenues goes to military expenses (war in iraq, afghanistan, soldier pay, maintenance and construction of the over 700 military bases and embassys worldwide. etc) So if Paul does as he says and pulls all US soldiers from everywhere around the world that will slash the budget by hundreds of billions of dollars, that and the hundreds of billions spent in foreign aid to countries that dont need it.. IE saudi arabia pakistan, israel, etc The key is if you dont have so many bills you dont need so much income. The original intent of US government wasnt to have such a plethora of federal agencies sucking up money while producing less that satisfactory results. You would think the "world superpower" would have kick ass school systems, but places like india and asia are graduating more scientists, engineers than the US


On the new international math & science test series, the Associated Press reported "American high school 12th graders scored near the bottom of all nations - out performing only Cyprus and South Africa. A comparison of the high-school elite - those who took physics and advanced math - showed American tied for the bottom.


so take those results and add this..


Combining primary & secondary spending, U.S. spending per student is 45%-67% higher than the most advanced international competitors


mwhodges.home.att.net...

so by having a huge bureaucracy we spend more money and get worse results. thats just a small example of what "federalizing" everything does, and why Ron Paul opposes it.
Using the KISS method works in government too

list of federal agencies.
en.wikipedia.org...-federal_agencies

good topic



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 09:14 AM
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Merry Christmas all.

Again I would like to point out a recent trend here on ATS.

Noobies join and immediately post a Ron Paul hit thread. Like they have --- oh, I don't know --- an agenda or something. Go ahead ATSers. Look at all the recent Ron Paul hit threads (part of the NWO, scam, liar, trap, you know what I mean). Check the join date of the OPer and the date of the thread. Conspiracy? I believe so. Deny ignorance. Eat the ignorant.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by jtma508
Merry Christmas all.

Again I would like to point out a recent trend here on ATS.

Noobies join and immediately post a Ron Paul hit thread. Like they have --- oh, I don't know --- an agenda or something. Go ahead ATSers. Look at all the recent Ron Paul hit threads (part of the NWO, scam, liar, trap, you know what I mean). Check the join date of the OPer and the date of the thread. Conspiracy? I believe so. Deny ignorance. Eat the ignorant.


i noticed that too, the op of this thread joined, what 6 hours ago?
but what are you suggesting they are doing? Hit thread? please clarify.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by turbokid
 


One thing to consider is that 51% is not alot when your talking about the type of changes that Ron is proposing. i don't know for a fact but i have a feeling that equalizing the dollar alone would eat that up because the extra printed money is not just in the pockets of americans it's in every bank and investment with the US green papers in it.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by jtma508
Merry Christmas all.

Again I would like to point out a recent trend here on ATS.

Noobies join and immediately post a Ron Paul hit thread. Like they have --- oh, I don't know --- an agenda or something. Go ahead ATSers. Look at all the recent Ron Paul hit threads (part of the NWO, scam, liar, trap, you know what I mean). Check the join date of the OPer and the date of the thread. Conspiracy? I believe so. Deny ignorance. Eat the ignorant.


I'm with ya! Funny how it seems so convenient...

And unfortunately there seem to be more and more popping up. I wonder how many there will be next year before the election...

I wouldn't be surprised one bit if some of these people worked for other candidates campaigns, and then came to the most popular conspiracy community around to try to lessen Ron Paul's popularity.

BTW, it's spelled FOREIGN AFFAIRS.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by turbokid
 



You know, hit thread... a thread thats purpose is to discredit Ron Paul. A negative attack ad disguised as an ATS thread.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:51 AM
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Ron Paul is in nobodys best interest. But it really doe not matter, since his support is so low and will remain low. He has fringe ideas that seem pupular on the surface, but are really impractical and even silly. The majority of his platform consists of getting rid of large pieces the govenrment. I watched him on Meet the Press this last Sunday and he answers all the cuts with replacements of sorts. Take tax for example. He says he will get rid of income tax yet replace it with 'tariffs' and 'usage fees'. Of course he no more specifics.

He is a very shady person who has said alot of terrible things. He does not believe there should be any sexual harassment suits in work places. He believes if a woman believes she is being sexually harassed, should just quit. He has implied several times that the black man is bring down our cities. This is why he has the support of the kkk.

He is mainly unchallenged in the MSM on these issues because he is such a nobody. I've seen debates where people snicker when he is about to talk. I don't think the other candidates are anything to get excited about. But if Ron Paul ever gets close to being a serious candidate, he will be exposed as to what he really is.

People who support him are basically uneducated and just see his surface buzz phrases. Get rid of the IRS - who could be against that ? Get rid of the CIA and FBI; good idea. And so on.

Thankfully this guy is just a joke that will soon fade back into obscurity.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by dirtonwater
 


I take personal offense to your statement. I support Ron Paul. I'm very well educated and reasonably successful. I support him becuase the core of his platform is a return to the Constitution and the rule of law. If you believe that those are truly 'fringe' ideas than I suggest you need to educate yourself.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 09:23 AM
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Ron Paul certainly has the right to continue his quest for presidency. But at this point would'nt you think the candidates in the single digits in the polls would have enough self respect to bow out. How humiliating for them and their supporters.

Its like the 9/11 truthers... 'Any day now people will realize the truth.....'



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by dirtonwater
 



Gee, I didn't realize it was a popularity contest. I also didn't realize that it was over already.

Nearly half this country voted for Bush. Not once but twice. I suppose we have to cut these folks some slack during the first election since they clearly bought into the 'gentler, kinder nation' BS. But the second time? So because the MSM is leading the sheeple to their candidates of choise the rest of us should just fold-up our tents and go home?? Who are you? Do you really believe the stuff you say or ar you just spewing it to get a reaction?

A few weeks ago Huckabee was in single digits. Should he have just given up? Or is there a certain time that you are supposed to make that decision?

This coutry is made-up of mostly under-informed sheeple. It takes them awhile to shake-off the MSM KoolAide. There's hope right up to the wire. Sorry if your candidate is feeling threatened. That must be a bummer.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by jtma508
Merry Christmas all.

Again I would like to point out a recent trend here on ATS.

Noobies join and immediately post a Ron Paul hit thread. Like they have --- oh, I don't know --- an agenda or something. Go ahead ATSers. Look at all the recent Ron Paul hit threads (part of the NWO, scam, liar, trap, you know what I mean). Check the join date of the OPer and the date of the thread. Conspiracy? I believe so. Deny ignorance. Eat the ignorant.


Ive noticed this too. I find it amusing though because they have absolutely nothing to go on when bashing the good Dr.

The best they can do is try to make us believe he is a neo-nazi or somehow going to be evil once he gets in office.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by dirtonwater
Ron Paul certainly has the right to continue his quest for presidency. But at this point would'nt you think the candidates in the single digits in the polls would have enough self respect to bow out. How humiliating for them and their supporters.

Its like the 9/11 truthers... 'Any day now people will realize the truth.....'


Hey idiot. Ron Paul is now 10% in Iowa on an 'official poll' so STFU about him being single digits.
www.americanresearchgroup.com...



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 11:17 AM
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Damn you Hilary. Stop making topics here unless you offer something, anything useful.

How about we pull all the candidates records, put them on display because people are not smart enough to research themselves, and then decide. Everyone here voted for war except Ron Paul, thats a point for him seeing the American people don't want war. Oh wait a second, Ron Paul is the ONLY one who DIDN'T vote the Gaytriot Act, another point for him if you like your privacy, and so on. I don't get why you wouold even try and nitpick RP, have you looked at the other candidates? They change positions more than a porno star.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by Golack
 




Whoa there Nelly!! Pull back a bit.

Sounds like you took it a bit personally huh?

Seriously though, chill out. Nobody wants to have to deal with this. I think calling someone an idiot and telling them to STFU is a bit much.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


Yes I do take it personally. These people are registering with the intent to post total lies about Ron Paul.

Look at DirtonWater's post history

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by jtma508
 


For a bunch of new folks to have been conspiring, wouldn't that mean that they'd have to have coordinated their attacks against Ron Paul? If a bunch of folks who don't know each other have similar critiques, is that really a conspiracy? Ron Paul has a lot of areas that are vulnerable to critique, so it's a bit disengenuous to say that anything that doesn't conform to your views must be a conspiracy. The truth is that not everything is conspiracy. In fact, most everything that happens isn't as result of a conspiracy.



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