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Keeping The Faith In China

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posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 08:48 PM
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Keeping The Faith In China


news.bbc.co.uk



At an underground church service in China, you pray as quickly as you can - and hope the police do not come running in.

At the end of an alleyway in the north of Beijing, 40 Chinese Christians gather in a small classroom. At the beginning of the service, they bow their heads and pray.

Their priest, Zhang Minxuan, stands in front of them. Twenty years ago he was a barber with no interest in religion. Then he got into trouble with the Communist Party and was jailed.
(visit the link for the full news article)


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posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 08:48 PM
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I don't think religion should be linked with politics at all. People can be spiritual and still be loyal to ones country. Because of that I think it is a mistake for the state to try to control religion. It looses meaning when state tries to meddle in it. That is at leas as I see it, and because of that I wish people all the best when they have to hide to practice there religion.

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 10:06 PM
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Bless their hearts... The same thing is happening in many other places other than China. I spoke to some Christians in India once who are basically dealing with the same circumstances. They sang a Christian song to me in broken English and it made me cry. I pray that they're able to keep their faith through trials and tribulations and stand tall knowing our heavenly Father watches over them.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 03:07 AM
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reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron
 


Regina
Thanks for posting, and very nicely worded. Thanks so much for sharing your experience. Yes do bless them all through the problems from state of practicing there religion.

Also that is a very nice avatar, where did you get it from?



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 04:57 AM
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hopefully they dont do what they are doin in africa and kill for profit like the chinese government.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by RedGolem
Regina
Thanks for posting, and very nicely worded. Thanks so much for sharing your experience. Yes do bless them all through the problems from state of practicing there religion.

Also that is a very nice avatar, where did you get it from?


You're welcome. Thank you for posting what you did - I think it's important that people should know.

As far as the Avatar, a dear friend gave me the picture - I have no idea where she got it. I would assume somewhere on the Net.


God bless.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 07:29 PM
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this really annoys me largely! it's sucks!!!

Beijing have several churchs and i have got there many times. one of my pals is a christian, she goes to church 3 times every a week. why have such news released, it is really irresponsible. God!

What China has done in Africa is by no means the same as US in iraq. the relation between china and africa is anything than exploiting. dont open your mouth and speak some words with no basis at all, dude!

what other things can your western media do than demonizing China?



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 07:40 PM
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The reason why they controll religion is quite simple and the reason why The Repulblic of China has been so successful. Religion breeds fanatics look at the middle east.

China is very wise in its past being one of the oldest civilizations and knows to controll this is to controll its people.

I though disagree with the policy and think that everyone is entitled to their own believe.

But am glad to read stories about brave peoples that choose their own destony regardless of percecution.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by wwssii
this really annoys me largely! it's sucks!!!

Beijing have several churchs and i have got there many times. one of my pals is a christian, she goes to church 3 times every a week. why have such news released, it is really irresponsible. God!

What China has done in Africa is by no means the same as US in iraq. the relation between china and africa is anything than exploiting. dont open your mouth and speak some words with no basis at all, dude!

what other things can your western media do than demonizing China?


They allow it in certain areas and not others. It's a matter of deception. My cousin is currently there on a Christian Mission. A friend of hers was kicked out of the country for ministering off the campus they were allowed to visit. They'll take our money, but they'll only tolerate us, and anyone for that matter, spreading the Christian faith for so long.

From AsiaTimesOnline:

China's Protestants evangelized at the risk of liberty and sometimes life, and possess a sort of fervor not seen in Christian ranks for centuries. Their pastors have been beaten and jailed, and they have had to create their own institutions through the "house church" movement. Two years ago I warned that China would have to wait for democracy.

From City-Data.com:

HONG KONG (ANS) -- As the 2008 Beijing Olympics approaches, Chinese Christians are facing increased levels of persecution as authorities seek to keep dissidents away from international media, according to a Christian attorney in Beijing.

The Baptist Standard reported that Christian human rights lawyer Li Heping says he was kidnaped and tortured for nearly six hours on Sept. 29, and two other Beijing Christian activists have been held under house arrest since Oct. 1.

From New America Media:

Christian Home Churches Gaining in China

New America Media, News Feature, Jun Wang, Posted: Aug 02, 2006

Editor's Note: A greater number of Chinese are gravitating toward Christian home churches, sometimes to the dismay of local Chinese governments. NAM contributor Jun Wang recently graduated from the Graduate School of Journalism at U.C. Berkeley. She worked as a correspondent for the Xinhua News Agency in China and Egypt.

BEIJING--Like she does each Sunday morning, Yao Liu takes a seat among the 30 others crammed in a tiny apartment in northwest Beijing to pray. Sunday services are held in the 500-square-foot, two-room flat where worshipers sit in cramped rows on folding stools. Most are current or former students of Peking University, known as the birthplace of democracy and science in China.

[edit on 25-12-2007 by ReginaAdonnaAaron]



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 09:44 PM
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One thing that needs to be understood here, Christianity isn't the only religion persecuted in China. All religions are frowned upon on the "great" land of China..
It's a shame, but it's the truth.

[edit on 25-12-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 12:42 AM
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i dont think you are talking about religion issues. it is about dissident. if all the dissident were men, does that mean China persecute all men?

religion always become a sensitive issue in China just because religion can constitute one kind of power, it maybe doesnt comply with the political system well. but if you are blame the one-party system of China, it is a different topic and has last a long long time. put it simply, it is cliche.

church is deception, how about bibles? China has seen a biggest bible sales in the world. so, if you believe christian, just pray in church and read bible, dont touch social problems,especially political problems.China has its own human right standard and demand. Chinese know well what is their top needs nowdays. after the economy going into a stronger situation and education being improved greatly, democracy also can be embraced by chinese. IMHO.

[edit on 26-12-2007 by wwssii]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 06:17 AM
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reply to post by wwssii
 


wwssii,
When you say education has improved greatly could you say what has happened that made it improve greatly?
I recall hearing on a local news report that the government took away public funding schools. So there for an older sibling or parent of a school age child must go to work in one of the factories to earn enough to send the school age sibling to school, or they just don't go to school.
So where is the improvement?



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 07:34 AM
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Hate to burst your bubble but its not a anti-Christian thing. The Chinese government treats all western religions the same way (fearing outside influence), and many eastern ones as well. We Baha'i's are not allowed any of the instituitions, assemblies, centers etc. that we have here in the United States and many places elsewhere, none the less we are one of the fastest growing religions in China.

P.S. The fact is the Chinese government is in the process of relaxing many of its restrictions on (western) religions it has held in the past. The Pope just consecrated several new Chinese Bishops without Governmental meddling like it has done before, demanding the right to approve or nominate the candidates etc.

[edit on 26-12-2007 by grover]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 07:39 AM
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Firstly, China is indeed very sensitive to religious matters..after all, it is a communist state ... thus basically athesis. The Chinese believe that State and religious don't mix.. which is correct.

However, one can pursue any religion they so wish, but have to be a licensed or approved qualified organisation or stature.. not-some-out of work peasant who turned preacher running a home church.. this goes the same with buddhist, muslim alike. It also includes Christian missionaries, you can partly thank CIA operation in XingJiang for that (they were kicked out years ago and the terrorist bombings there stopped, later Russia did the same)... and you can also read up the "Taiping Uprising". Another is that China do not allow religion with a living god.. example the Falunggong and to some extend Catholics (which has a pope), which is seen to have a political nature... in a sense they are not that wrong.

China, a civilisation for thousands of years, and they do not have any wars fought between religions, even the "Taiping Uprising" was not between religion, but Fanatic Christians against state. And the Kingdom have top ministers of various religion serving the court. For example, The highest Judge was a Jew called "Bao Gong", Admiral Cheng was a muslim, the highest priest was Tibetian, and even Tang Emperors were once muslim.

There are 70,000 private schools, 366,200 public elementary schools and 361,300 junior high schools in China. I believe elementary schools are free. The incident mentioned above was unfortunately, one of the schools which was stopped, due to the country's shrinking school-age population. But school distribution may not be ideal. Many families are poor, thus they had to sent children to work and sacrifice for their younger sibblings.. to attend high school...life sucks to be living in a emerging third world country... but that's how it is.. even in developed countries there will be examples..

And dispite western media harping on "China threat" and a "super Power".. China is still poor and a third world country at that... Things are improving but one must understand that China, with a huge population, only began their success in recent time, less than ten years. Many things needs to be done.. but name me one huge country that had achieve what China Had in that same time frame ? they also pulled 400 million out of object poverty and needs to do the same with another 200 million.. spread across a huge expand of land.

Give China a break..... just because she might one day challenge the Western superiority.. you have to demonise her for whatever she does... especially BBC.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by grover


P.S. The fact is the Chinese government is in the process of relaxing many of its restrictions on (western) religions it has held in the past.


I did not know that, thank you for posting it.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by mobydog
Firstly, China is indeed very sensitive to religious matters..after all, it is a communist state ... thus basically athesis. The Chinese believe that State and religious don't mix.. which is correct.


Moby
I feel that statement is incorrect. I do think religion and and state can get along just fine. So long as one does not interfere with the other. Meaning state leaves religion alone to worship as the wish, and religion leaves matters of state alone. All that means religion should not be used as a way to take up arms against a state. In those instances the state does need to put a stop to those who are causing the trouble. Or more to the point, any religion still does need to abide by the laws.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 08:07 AM
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Originally posted by RedGolem

Originally posted by mobydog
Firstly, China is indeed very sensitive to religious matters..after all, it is a communist state ... thus basically athesis. The Chinese believe that State and religious don't mix.. which is correct.


Moby
I feel that statement is incorrect. I do think religion and and state can get along just fine. So long as one does not interfere with the other. Meaning state leaves religion alone to worship as the wish, and religion leaves matters of state alone. All that means religion should not be used as a way to take up arms against a state. In those instances the state does need to put a stop to those who are causing the trouble. Or more to the point, any religion still does need to abide by the laws.
Technically, that's what I mean.....that they do not interfere with one another. But that's easier said than done... even bush uses god one too often. But religion also needs to be regulated... you can't have cults and unlicensed and radicle people running around preaching their own version of any religion .. can you ?



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by mobydog
you can't have cults and unlicensed and radicle people running around preaching their own version of any religion .. can you ?


That's how the Jews/Romans/Greeks etc. felt about Christianity when it began. They were labeled a cult way back when...


[edit on 26-12-2007 by ReginaAdonnaAaron]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by ReginaAdonnaAaron

Originally posted by mobydog
you can't have cults and unlicensed and radicle people running around preaching their own version of any religion .. can you ?


That's how the Jews/Romans/Greeks etc. felt about Christianity when it began. They were labeled a cult way back when...


[edit on 26-12-2007 by ReginaAdonnaAaron]
I'm talking about those existing highly recognised religion, in today's world. You do not want Radical individual to change, misinterpreting bible/buddist/islam Scripts.. and proclaiming himself god, or representing god. Or simply invent a brand new religion... right.

Also you do not want unregulated radical preachers teaching hate, terrorism and racism... right. These are sometimes used as a political tool to subjugate unco-operatives countries too. The Chinese still remembers the two opium wars, Taiping Rebellion and how religion was used to protect criminals by western countries and further the opium sales... and recently Xinjiang.

[edit on 26-12-2007 by mobydog]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by grover
Hate to burst your bubble but its not a anti-Christian thing. The Chinese government treats all western religions the same way (fearing outside influence), and many eastern ones as well. We Baha'i's are not allowed any of the instituitions, assemblies, centers etc. that we have here in the United States and many places elsewhere, none the less we are one of the fastest growing religions in China.



China bans just about every religion. Look at its relations with Tibet and the Dalai Lama...
You're right, this is not really an anti-Christian thing. It is an anti-spiritual, period, thing.



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