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We should rid ourselves of America...

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posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and all other nations. Then open up the borders, create a federalized system in which the world is governed at a federal level while each current nation exists in a form similar to the states within the USA.



how is that any different than the One-world-government being pushed by NWO?




posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 09:31 AM
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The eutopian society you yearn for is not possible.

Only that which is perfect could rule.

www.biblegateway.com...



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by scientist
 


1: i don't buy into the "NWO" conspiracy theory (and this isn't really the place to discuss that anyway)

2: populism

3: is there anything wrong with the idea?


Originally posted by redseal
Wow this is a bad idea for so many reasons but I can generalize it with on statement.

I cant make it on my own, so gimme some of yours.


that's also a complete misrepresentation of what i'm pushing for... i'm pushing for a world where everyone has an equal chance to succeed, not where everyone has equal wealth.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by Nohup

I have an even better solution. Let's do away with all borders and let everyone be governed by one person (me) in charge of a large centralized system that maintains control over territorial and regional resources. That way everybody will be truly equal. Everybody but me, of course. Somebody's got to be in charge. But that's a pretty high percentage of equality, no?
[edit on 24-12-2007 by Nohup]


No we can go to a true communism system with no leader and everyone is equal. That way I can work hard all my life just so those who do not work can be as equal as me.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 10:48 AM
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To the OP,

Can we safely assume that you are spending your life working for the good of all man in anyway you can? I'm sure you are part of a Peace Corps type operation and live only for the betterment of the poor countries of the world.

I betting no, and I'm thinking student with your Xbox, Wii, IPod, laptop etc…



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 11:48 AM
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we should rid ourselves of globalists. You act like all of the sudden third world nations will become prosporus overnight under your Stalinistic idea. And why is it that people who hate capitalism always espouse equality? Is it because on your best day you could not be equal to a janitor at a pulp mill? And therefore you want to bring the Mill Foreman down to your level?

You people that talk about equality scare the hell out of me. Hitler, Stalin, in fact, name a psychotic leader, I can garuntee you he rose to power by Spouting the same "equality" BS you guys do.

Communism may be perishing in practice, but it is alive and well in mind apparently.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


So basically you want a one world government. This may seem like a good idea, but i can assure you it is not. This would give a select few people power over the entire world, and create a super government. Alex Jones' Engame tells us all about this, and it wouldn't work out so well. We are, however, already on our way to one world government so your wish just might come true.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by scientist
 


1: i don't buy into the "NWO" conspiracy theory (and this isn't really the place to discuss that anyway)


ah, right. i thought I was on ATS for a second. my mistake.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
To the OP,

Can we safely assume that you are spending your life working for the good of all man in anyway you can?


actually, i am. more than 1/3rd of my income goes to charity at the moment...



I'm sure you are part of a Peace Corps type operation and live only for the betterment of the poor countries of the world.


was actually going to join up with the peace corps for a few years after college.



I betting no, and I'm thinking student with your Xbox, Wii, IPod, laptop etc…


being a hypothetical student with those things would somehow make me insincere or something?

i'm pushing for the world to be a better place, there are many ways to do that, and some of the ways are a bit more effective than others.


Originally posted by MiKeB420
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


So basically you want a one world government.


in the loosest possible sense.



This may seem like a good idea, but i can assure you it is not.


well...it depends.



This would give a select few people power over the entire world, and create a super government.


why do people automatically attach another meaning to my ideas instead of what i intend?


Originally posted by aravoth
we should rid ourselves of globalists.


hooray for shunning political ideologies we don't agree with!



You act like all of the sudden third world nations will become prosporus overnight under your Stalinistic idea.


stalinistic? why would a stalinist repeatedly talk about capitalistic ideas?

obviously you aren't reading my posts over.

from my first post

this creates a system in which birth matters more than ability. a genius born in a third world nation will have less of a chance to succeed than a C student in america. this is anti-democratic and anti-capitalism.


hmm.. why would i be concerned that something is anti-capitalism if i was a stalinist?



And why is it that people who hate capitalism always espouse equality?


well... i do admit that i hate pure capitalism as i hate any pure ideology, but i do admire many of the ideas within capitalism and believe that it is a mostly good system that just needs to borrow a bit from other ideas to bring about something even great.



Is it because on your best day you could not be equal to a janitor at a pulp mill? And therefore you want to bring the Mill Foreman down to your level?


wow... ad hom.



You people that talk about equality scare the hell out of me. Hitler, Stalin, in fact, name a psychotic leader, I can garuntee you he rose to power by Spouting the same "equality" BS you guys do.


godwin...and a misplaced one at that. hitler didn't talk about equality, he talked about the superiority of one race.

alright, let's see who else you're afraid of...
MLK jr
Gandhi (how could you be scared of Gandhi?)
Mother Theresa
hmm..



Communism may be perishing in practice, but it is alive and well in mind apparently.



you're attacking a strawman here, i'm not talking abut a communist system.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by scientist
 


i meant this thread isn't a place to discuss the NWO conspiracy theory, not ATS as a whole...



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
actually, i am. more than 1/3rd of my income goes to charity at the moment...
was actually going to join up with the peace corps for a few years after college.


Well I wish you well. I went the other direction and joined the Air Force to help the world out.




being a hypothetical student with those things would somehow make me insincere or something?


My point is it is easy to wish the betterment of others while living a good life for yourself.



i'm pushing for the world to be a better place, there are many ways to do that, and some of the ways are a bit more effective than others.


That is great, but one world government would really not help. Instead of having a ghetto in a city we would have ex-countries as ghettos. Everything would just be on a grander scale without actually fixing the real problem.

Then you run into the issue of how we actually join together. America would not be the stumbling block and for about 99% of the world we would need to take it by force.

I would also hate to see a world government like the UN for then nothing would or could ever get done, and what happens when I’m living in my 3000 sq ft house with all the comforts that America can provide and 5 billon other citizens are well below poverty level still?

In the end we would need to divert all our energy and resources to those 5 billion, so in affect we would need to bring down our standard of living quite a bit to bring theirs up.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 01:00 PM
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Nationalism is something that protects the people of the world. It's like a ship with watertight compartments. When one is punctured, it can be sealed off and the whole ship does not sink. This is not only true economically speaking, but also in case of some sort of super-disease.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. When there is a very small group in power at the very top, you have despotism. This is rampant in many nations across the world including the U.S., but there are still a few nations that you can escape to.

You mentioned that I had no concept of the E.U. You don't have any clue what I know about.

You are an enemy of freedom, and you and your kind will be dealt with very severely. You better start reading and figure out what is going on before you conclude that we need a One World Gov't.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 01:05 PM
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open up boarders and basicaly create a one world order dont think so you will have ethnic conflict you cant put racist with relouse people i dont see that happening.
you cant open up a segregated society eg: extremist it would be a dissaster im sure its better how we are and as for removing america i just think american should trying to a.police the world b.change there foriegn policy c. get a decent president d leave the middleeast alone and break of any relations with israel and finaly stay away m the muslim world i think they have caused enough trouble as it is now they should step down.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 01:54 PM
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The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men.

Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster and what has happened once in 6,000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution, for if the American Constitution should fail, there will be anarchy throughout the world.

Global government has emotional appeal to the type of personality that takes pleasure in being submerged in a mass movement and submitting to superior authority. For some reason they find it necessary to remove from the minds of men, their individualism, loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism and religious freedom.

I will never bow to a movement that wants nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system and the economy of the world as a whole. I will not be controlled in a feudalistic fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in private meetings and conferences. People who advocate for world government want freedom, peace, well being, and representation. But their thinking is backwards, a world government by its design will never allow any of these things.

As governments go, ours, with all its faults, is not the worst and even has some admirable qualities. But we can and should insist on better. Communism isn't the way, world government isn't the way, neither is socialism. There will never be a really free and enlightened State until THE PEOPLE demand, and the their government comes to recognize the INDIVIDUAL as a higher and INDEPENDENT power, from which all its own power and authority are derived, and treats him accordingly. “That government is best which governs least”

[edit on 25-12-2007 by METACOMET]



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

the "occupation" idea has a bit of a (and i hesitate in saying this) racist overtone to it. and obviously there would be health screenings



Racist or not, I don´t want a bunch of African immigrants spreading HiV/Aids. And allowing them to just walk over the boundries without health checks is just backward thinking. Helps no one, and creates more problems for everyone.

But in honesty, I don´t see the need for a so called "one race world." I enjoy my race, I enjoy my culture. Everyone does. And to deprave anyone of that is doing no one good.

Wanna stop racism? Great, but making us all one color wont help. People will still be born in America and Africa, thus Americans will claim they are better then the people born in Africa. Even though we are one color, we still come from different counries. Might as well name every country on earth the same name.

Also, while on topic of immigration and trying to help those in need, why do we need them to immigrate into our own country and cause more trouble? (Not just because they are immigrants, but also because of higher crime and the loss of our own culture.)

Would it not be best to help countries build a better society? Instead of letting mass immigration happen? It´s like putting a band-aid on a cut that will never heal. And again, that doesn´t help anyone. It creates boundries and hate between peoples.

People try to help with good intention, but are doing it all wrong. This type of *help* is just causing more heartache and grief for ever party involved.

My 0.2Ameros

FK



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


i can only assume that you are not an american since you appear to be so willing to give away the birthright blessings of america and pull us all down to the level of the 3rd world so we can live in poverty like them ?its not our fault if others chose or were born into the "hell' their parents/forefathers created--left behind for the offspring to inherit--why should we have to pay for others mistakes or "crimes"?



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by Frontkjemper

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

the "occupation" idea has a bit of a (and i hesitate in saying this) racist overtone to it. and obviously there would be health screenings



Racist or not, I don´t want a bunch of African immigrants spreading HiV/Aids. And allowing them to just walk over the boundries without health checks is just backward thinking. Helps no one, and creates more problems for everyone.


HEALTH SCREENINGS. it's right there.



But in honesty, I don´t see the need for a so called "one race world." I enjoy my race, I enjoy my culture. Everyone does. And to deprave anyone of that is doing no one good.


race doesn't exist. culture does.
seriously, look into anthropology, race is a myth.
i'm not talking for the destruction of culture, i actually want to see culture flourish.



Wanna stop racism? Great, but making us all one color wont help.


where did i say anything about that?
i never said anything about homogenizing skin pigmentation



People will still be born in America and Africa, thus Americans will claim they are better then the people born in Africa. Even though we are one color, we still come from different counries. Might as well name every country on earth the same name.





Also, while on topic of immigration and trying to help those in need, why do we need them to immigrate into our own country and cause more trouble?


i never said they should just move into a particular country, i just would want them to be able to.
ideally people wouldn't have to because we'd be able to distribute resources such as access to education, food, etc and the only need for mobility would be specifics or whimsy



(Not just because they are immigrants, but also because of higher crime and the loss of our own culture.)


hotdogs = german
hamburgers = german
beer = irish
various potato dishes = irish
pizza = italian

i could go down the list... but the point is that america has a melting pot culture, it is constantly in flux and will remain that way. america is truly a nation of immigrants, so the cultural issue isn't much of a concern.



Would it not be best to help countries build a better society?


that's what i'm pushing for...



Instead of letting mass immigration happen?


i never called for mass immigration




People try to help with good intention, but are doing it all wrong. This type of *help* is just causing more heartache and grief for ever party involved.


no, it will only cause grief for those who thrive on privilege instead of effort



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
Well I wish you well. I went the other direction and joined the Air Force to help the world out.


i actually considered that option myself, but i realized that it really isn't my thing.



My point is it is easy to wish the betterment of others while living a good life for yourself.


the proles never seem to be able to have the resources to mastermind a revolution, do they? it's always those that live a good life that push for it. the american revolution was lead by those that lived a good life, was it not?



That is great, but one world government would really not help. Instead of having a ghetto in a city we would have ex-countries as ghettos. Everything would just be on a grander scale without actually fixing the real problem.


how so?



Then you run into the issue of how we actually join together. America would not be the stumbling block and for about 99% of the world we would need to take it by force.


i wouldn't want this to be something that's done by force, that is not my way of thinking. i don't know how it would be done, but i'm thinking on it.



I would also hate to see a world government like the UN for then nothing would or could ever get done, and what happens when I’m living in my 3000 sq ft house with all the comforts that America can provide and 5 billon other citizens are well below poverty level still?


the problem of the UN is how certain parts of the system work... especially that security council veto power thing...

and i'm talking about a world where nobody lives below the poverty unless they aren't putting in effort. a world where those that work succeed.



In the end we would need to divert all our energy and resources to those 5 billion, so in affect we would need to bring down our standard of living quite a bit to bring theirs up.


the world isn't zero sum.


Originally posted by downtown436
Nationalism is something that protects the people of the world. It's like a ship with watertight compartments. When one is punctured, it can be sealed off and the whole ship does not sink. This is not only true economically speaking, but also in case of some sort of super-disease.


and yet nationalism is the source of some of the world's worst atrocities...



Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. When there is a very small group in power at the very top, you have despotism. This is rampant in many nations across the world including the U.S., but there are still a few nations that you can escape to.


where did i say anything about a small group in power at the top?



You mentioned that I had no concept of the E.U. You don't have any clue what I know about.


i made a judgment based on the knowledge that you demonstrated.



You are an enemy of freedom, and you and your kind will be dealt with very severely. You better start reading and figure out what is going on before you conclude that we need a One World Gov't.


enemy of freedom? i'm someone who's trying to call for freedom. the freedom to succeed and fail based on our merits and effort instead of living under the shackles of birth and circumstance.

and the threats are very unwelcomed.
i know what's going on, i read and i've realized what we need.


Originally posted by METACOMET
The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men.


and i'm calling for everyone in the world to have the exact same freedom and opportunity as every american citizen currently has.



Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster and what has happened once in 6,000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution, for if the American Constitution should fail, there will be anarchy throughout the world.


the constitution and the USA were a great step, but that is what they are, a STEP. there will always be something greater for us to work towards.

also...6000 years...off by a bit there.

oh, and the ethnocentrism displayed is why people have a negative view of america.



Global government has emotional appeal to the type of personality that takes pleasure in being submerged in a mass movement and submitting to superior authority.


this
isn't
about
superior
authority

this is about freedom, about a world where all are truly equal instead of one where some are more equal than others.




For some reason they find it necessary to remove from the minds of men, their individualism, loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism and religious freedom.


national patriotism isn't exactly something i see worth holding onto, but the rest of it i wish to see people holding on to. what's the point of a world where there is an absence of the worth of an individual?



I will never bow to a movement that wants nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system and the economy of the world as a whole. I will not be controlled in a feudalistic fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in private meetings and conferences. People who advocate for world government want freedom, peace, well being, and representation. But their thinking is backwards, a world government by its design will never allow any of these things.


mentioning this means that you're not grasping what i'm pushing for



As governments go, ours, with all its faults, is not the worst and even has some admirable qualities. But we can and should insist on better. Communism isn't the way, world government isn't the way, neither is socialism. There will never be a really free and enlightened State until THE PEOPLE demand, and the their government comes to recognize the INDIVIDUAL as a higher and INDEPENDENT power, from which all its own power and authority are derived, and treats him accordingly. “That government is best which governs least”


exactly
not one world government
one world people
one humanity
earth, that insignificant speck, finally at peace and prospering.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by yahn goodey
i can only assume that you are not an american


you know what they say about assuming... something about making a something out of you and me.
i'm an american citizen, lived all but about 3 years of my life in the USA.



since you appear to be so willing to give away the birthright blessings of america


i'm sorry, i believe in equality, not feudal birthright.



and pull us all down to the level of the 3rd world so we can live in poverty like them ?


no, i want them to be brought up to our level.



its not our fault if others chose or were born into the "hell' their parents/forefathers created--left behind for the offspring to inherit--why should we have to pay for others mistakes or "crimes"?


and why should they pay for the mistakes or "crimes" of others?
i'm talking about making them not pay... i'm talking about making NOBODY pay.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 09:36 PM
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Oh, ok, let's have a top-down federalized world government so we can all be "equal." Do you realize you're promoting the New World Order!? Everybody leave ATS, people are promoting the the conspiracy now under the same guise the Brotherhood uses. Oh, the world is so unfair, but communist distribution of resources will solve everything! Government is bad at this level, so let's make a United States of the World to further centralize things! Everybody go home, the world is safe for sheeple everywhere!



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