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Where has this forum's logic gone?

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posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 01:20 PM
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Thank you in advance for reading my post and taking into consideration my point of view.

Dear ATS readers & writers,

Where has our logic gone? It seems as though the posts of "conspiracy theories" conjured up by newly registered members ( some not so newly registered ) are so unbelievably critical of politics that they are not uncovering the truth, yet imposing brand new lies into all of our thoughts.

What happens when you read these outlandish claims? You actually start to consider the possibilities, often just because you believe 1/8 of what the person is claiming.

For the example below, you may believe in the NWO, and the paranoid thought of it coming true could easily sway you to believe what the poster has written. However, not every politician in the world believes in the NWO. Especially one who claims he will immediately bring our troops home, because that would mean he is against world domination.

Take into consideration the following thread:

Titled: Ultimate proof that Ron Paul is from the NWO agenda.

Have a look around there if you have not already. It's a completely foolish post! A few combination pictures of people holding up (what i believed to be the sign of rock and roll for years and years and years) the 'devil horns' of the NWO. I bet nobody reading this can claim they have never thrown up the horns for one reason or another, and are you a part of the NWO agenda? Yet the sad truth is that 90% of the people who read that posted back that they agree! Are we the sheep whom walk among us? Apparently.

It's things like this that keep us from joining together and electing a president who could potentially fix the country. It's things like this that keep liberals scattering their votes across the board, and never really having an effect.

What I want to know, is if so many of you so easily ate up the fact that Bill Maher and Ron Paul are in the NWO together, how hard would it be to convince you of anything? You see a few pictures, put the puzzle pieces together in your brain, discard remaining evidence and claim you found yourself a member of the NWO.

Shame on you! Ron Paul may be a republican but he was a member of the liberal party for a long time, and ended up switching parties. He has a much better chance running as a republican, and his politics are much different than any republican that has been around in my entire life. Bill Mahr also believes that we should listen to the enemy and what they are saying, we should pull our troops out of Iraq, does that mean he's a part of the NWO?! NO!


As far as I'm concerned 90% of America believes in the ideals expressed by Ron Paul, and you should all be very careful around election times what sort of disinformation your spreading. You may think it's fun, you may think your not impacting anything, but what you say on here is read by a lot of people and you could very well sway votes by paranoid declarations.

The next time you post a thread, be sure to leave significant information regarding your claim, and a direct explanation of your opinion and why you believe it. Invite questions, comments, if you really want the truth. Be very careful not to spread lies, politics are an ugly, bloody, scary game.




posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 01:42 PM
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I see what you're saying, and I think it's important to not jump to conclusions to quickly on this sight. There's some interesting stuff on here but some of it is just plane wacky.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 02:04 PM
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I definitely feel ya on that subject op. I too was getting a bit frustrated at first then realized it comes with the territory and is only annoying as swatting at a pesky fly. I liken it to the public alabama diamond mine, you wade and sift through a lot of mud and dirt for the few gems in the rough.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by blowfishdl

Shame on you! Ron Paul may be a republican but he was a member of the liberal party for a long time, and ended up switching parties.


So, liberals aren't a part of the conspiracy, eh?


Hmmm, I don't know where you live, it's none of my business, but here in America, they very much are. At least part of the conspiracy too destroy America and spread globalist/socialist ideology.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by blowfishdl
 


Ummmm..

Ron Paul was never a Democrat, he was a

LIBERTARIAN

Which is quite honestly the polar opposite of a Liberal.. in fact, it is the polar opposite of a Liberal. I find it odd that Democrats even like the guy, aside from the fact that he will take votes away from the Republicans, but he does not have any Liberal qualities.

Small government anyone?



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 02:19 PM
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Take into consideration the following thread:





Yes it was foolish simple and most people still don't get the message and believe Ron Paul pulls the LOVE YOU sign lol.


Take a position



he loves you

curezone.com...

and he of course

i174.photobucket.com...



[edit on 24-12-2007 by Paul the seeker]



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 02:38 PM
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First of all, I don't think it is nice of you to criticize other members of ATS. Even if they are new, they deserve the same respect you do.

Second of all, what do you care what other people think of Ron Paul? If you are happy with the guy, then good for you.

What you are doing here, is also suggesting that other members of ATS, are not smart enough to read something and decide on their own what they consider of value.

Outside of your post being critical of really every member of ATS, the only other thing you have accomplished is an ad campaign for Ron Paul.




posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by Enthralled Fan
First of all, I don't think it is nice of you to criticize other members of ATS. Even if they are new, they deserve the same respect you do.


Respect is earned. It's not just something automatically endowed on every lunatic who can manipulate a keyboard and post here. If a particular lunatic can make a clear statement and then back it up with some decent evidence and logic, then they'll get respect. Conversely, if they pop up here with some ridiculous notion and completely fail to back that up with any kind of evidence or proof arrived at by reason or logic, then they need to have the appropriate amount of scorn and ridicule heaped upon their arguments.

Of course, per the Rules of the forum, the scorn and ridicule should be presented with politeness and without personal attack. Afterwards, it's up to the individual reader to determine what kind of laughably stupid and foolish dolt the poster is, and how much respect they deserve, depending on their ability to respond to the criticism of their cockamamie theory.

I think that's fair.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 05:01 PM
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I hear ya.

Some people will find a conspiracy in EVERYTHING. I'm not going to name any specific posts here, but there are I think some people who take things WAY too seriously.

Also, some people are taking the smallest things and blowing them up to unrealistic proportions or taking them as fact, and then asking people what to do because of this. Very sad.

Anyway, bitchin' aside, I'm still glad to be a member.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by Nohup
 


Yep, that was my point. Thanks for adding some verbage to it. There is a way to get your point across. To take a persons thread and make a statement out of it, is pretty darn rude. Let the person take thier lumps, learn from it, and move on. (The original thread.)

And yes, it is up to the individual to make up their mind what to make of what they read. I find 95% of the threads I read here, for the most part unbelievable, even with backup. Sometimes the backup is worse than the thread. But that is just me.

I still enjoy reading what people have to say, even if it is to be taken for entertainment value alone.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 02:52 PM
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I understand you don't like pointing fingers, but its the most effective way. I mean seriously, who is the enemy here the people involved in these 'conspiracys' or ourselves for putting each other in a position where we cannot support anything without thinking its a negative influence?

As much as I love conspiracy's I think this site is turning us all into pessimists whom have no base for our actions and are running like chicken with our heads cut off in no particular direction! We are our own enemy for the most part, and while we take the liberty to find negativity within every aspect of politics we never ever take into consideration the positive aspects of future politicians or laws!



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by blowfishdl
As much as I love conspiracy's I think this site is turning us all into pessimists whom have no base for our actions and are running like chicken with our heads cut off in no particular direction! We are our own enemy for the most part, and while we take the liberty to find negativity within every aspect of politics we never ever take into consideration the positive aspects of future politicians or laws!


You don't respect the members on ATS very much do you?
I'm not a pessimist and I'm no headless chicken either.

But if anyone is a pessimist about the current political process; they have a right to be considering the yahoo's that seem to be running things.

You start blowfish; show us a reason to be optimistic and positive.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by Enthralled Fan
 


Criticism comes with the territory. It is bad form to post derisive and vulgar comments about individuals -- it is good form to post reasonable criticism of their posts. Without criticism, we would get nowhere around here.

Not only do I applaud criticism, I expect it. If people have such ego investments in their own ideas that they are driven into some sort of fury because another person disagrees with criticism of those ideas, then that is a really childish state of mind.

Without others to come along and point out flaws in my ideas, I may fail to notice those flaws and persist in beliefs that are nonsensical or incomplete. I encourage criticism. I discourage senseless name-calling and provocation.

I also think it is perfectly OK to reference other posts to support one's own argument.

/tn.

Edited to correct noun/pronoun disagreement in second paragraph. Also added final sentence.


[edit on 27-12-2007 by teleonaut]



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 08:03 PM
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reply to post by teleonaut
 


I understand where you are coming from. Criticism is valuable if your idea is off and needs it, and a good debate helps us all to learn. To finger point at a person who put an idea out there is not criticism, it is making an example out of the person. There is no need for that type of humiliation.

I did not phrase what I meant properly when I said I didn't think it was ok
to criticise the person who was pointed to in this thread. I should have said it wasn't ok to humiliate the person.

Thanks for pointing that out.



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 02:07 AM
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I think that a certain amount of people come to this site without knowing just exactly what it is. They think they know, but they haven't really had much experience with what I call "conspiracy thinking", which is at least halfway paranoid.

So after reading through four or five threads, and getting their blood stirred up with conspiracy ideas, a thought from the world around them pops in their head. Just one of those stray thoughts we all have, time to time. And because they're all enthusiastic with the whole "glamor" of our slice of the worldly perception range, they post that stray idea.

Now more seasoned CTers sit and ponder any angle of possible conspiracy for hours and days, turning it this way and that in their minds like a jeweler looking for the right way to cut a diamond. They measure it against previously held beliefs, study it for flaws of logic, and pre-polish it in their heads before they start pounding the keyboards.

So, it's natural when the "old hands" see these rushed and roughly cut gems, for them to be a bit critical of the technique of less accomplished paranoids. But give them time, they may become just as cynical as the rest of us.

And the great thing is, once in a while these wild eyed babes in the dark woods will expose a true rarity; an un-thought of angle. Something that slid right past our jaded noses.

Not everyone is born paranoid and expecting the worst. Some of us come to it by exposure to the disease. Be gentle with those recently infected. Soon enough they too will be using the slang of shady deals and powerpolitics like a pro. There eyes will become flinty at the sight of a slogan, and their stomach clench at the sound of a taser.

Be gentle, they'll become us soon enough.



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by NGC2736
And because they're all enthusiastic with the whole "glamor" of our slice of the worldly perception range, they post that stray idea.




What's so glamorous about being a conspiracy nut? Aside from the fancy tin-foil crown


Anyway, yeah, I agree with the rest of your points. I had a little thread idea I was gonna post... now I'm not so sure any more because of scarce evidence. Then again I might post it (in phases, like how Microsoft does it with their crap software... makes for a better thread, too, from my observations) because the membership on ATS might just fill in that blank for me (or call me a liar... *cringes*)

[edit on 28-12-2007 by Beachcoma]



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 03:22 AM
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reply to post by Enthralled Fan
 


Thanks for the clarification. I agree with your refined point: there is no need to humiliate another person for the content of his or her post -- such a thing is certainly not civil.

/tn.



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