Americans Falling Behind on Credit Card Payments at Alarming Rate

reply to post by buddhasystem


They know they won't be able to pay. That's why interest rates are spiking - to recover the losses. I hope every single one of them fails to recover the losses and closes their doors. That's what's happening today with the "mortgage crisis."

I would hope so too, but I'm not very optimistic.

Originally posted by apc
reply to post by BluByWho

 

It's still predatory lending. Just like title loan or cash advance places. They prey on the weak and often inexperienced or uneducated as they are easy targets. I used an analogy once of a sexual predator. It's the same thing. Just because the ten year old "consented" doesn't make it OK.

These lending practices have gutted the middle class as was always intended. I for one don't think that is a good thing.

Its not predatory lending, its UNSECURED debt, and an interest rate that reflects the fact that its unsecured. I agree it has destroyed the middle class, and if people wouldn't live outside their means then there wouldnt be anything to worry about. Here's a simple means test, if you cant afford it in cash at the time, you cant afford it, regardless of how you pay for it, cash or credit.

A ten year old is not an adult and cannot make adult decisions, that analogy is terrible.

The bank has no way of knowing if your uneducated when they make the credit card offer to you, all they can do is make a soft inquiry on your credit report to determine creditworthiness. They might be able to determine inexperience based solely on age, but if your just out of HS turning 18 your credit limit is going to be a couple hundred bucks, to them there is no risk, thats a drop in the proverbial bucket.

[edit on 27-12-2007 by BluByWho]

reply to post by BluByWho


People with a FICO score of 600 getting their mailbox filled with 0% credit card offers is predatory lending. Visa setting up a kiosk on college campuses is predatory lending. Most, not all, modern lenders are scum. They've taken a valid tool and turned it into a means for enslavement.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Banks lend to people they know cant pay because of the fractional reserve banking and if they in reality only have 1000 on deposit and have lent it out 10 times over then any interest paid on those loans are all profit. also...if you think they dont do this then why so many foreclosures and why the huge prime lending bust? Loan officers know certain people wont be able to pay and they know certain people dont understand which is why they target them just like military recruiters in inner cities and public schools in poor neighborhoods.

[edit on 27-12-2007 by GUICE2]

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[edit on 27-12-2007 by GUICE2]

Originally posted by apc
reply to post by BluByWho

 

People with a FICO score of 600 getting their mailbox filled with 0% credit card offers is predatory lending. Visa setting up a kiosk on college campuses is predatory lending. Most, not all, modern lenders are scum. They've taken a valid tool and turned it into a means for enslavement.

Offers, offers, offers...... so what, who is going to MAKE you accept them? You only become a slave if you choose to, nobody makes you use the credit cards. Sending you an offer in the mail with a cardmember agreement outlining all of the terms of the credit card is not predatory lending, nor is setting up a kiosk at a college campus with the offers of student credit cards.

reply to post by apc


What the courts need to understand is that there is no fair playing in this industry which is purposefully geared to favor the banks and creditors. It is only when an account gos into default for 90 days that you can settle and why is that? Why force us to accrue extra interest if we want the account to be settled now because we intend on not paying any more rediculous interest than we have to? My ideological arguments have their place in this situation regarding debt and its tyrannical hold on the country. They know its harmful to the populace and yet they perpetuate the system anyway creating the illusion that there is actual value to what is lent to comsumers when really the interest that they collect is all profit. The only thing they lose is an entry in their microsoft excel accounting file.

reply to post by BluByWho


I think you meant...you only become a slave if you choose to take one of those perfectly packaged offers. Only to learn that yo ushould have read so much more than you have and that you might be in trouble. Yet it is probably too late at this point to realize your mistake becaue the system has already taken a hold on you and they know it. So you want to take personal responsiblity and get out of debt but they make it 100 times harder via unethical practices so that you will be stuck in a rut making minimum payments. How long do you think someone should be punished for one or two mistakes?

Originally posted by GUICE2
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Banks lend to people they know cant pay because of the fractional reserve banking and if they in reality only have 1000 on deposit and have lent it out 10 times over then any interest paid on those loans are all profit. also...if you think they dont do this then why so many foreclosures and why the huge prime lending bust? Loan officers know certain people wont be able to pay and they know certain people dont understand which is why they target them just like military recruiters in inner cities and public schools in poor neighborhoods.

First off unless its a bank guilty of predatory lending, you have to actually pass a mortgage through underwriting and it has to meet certain affordability guidelines. If people took out ARM's and weren't aware of what was going to happen they did 2 things wrong. #1 they chose a loan officer who was not helpful and thorough, #2 they didnt educate themselves before taking the loan out.

If banks lent money only to people whom they knew couldn't pay, using fractional reserve banking, they wouldn't have the ability to lend out any more money because they wouldn't have enough reserves on hand because nobody would be repaying their loans....

reply to post by BluByWho


Thats the whole point....they dont have any reserves on hand! I think the number is about 2% in actual reserves to what they say is on deposit. THEY USE FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING....its not a secret it is just hidden. Search for it and you will find it....really its out there.

reply to post by BluByWho



I get it....ideally the situation is such that i "borrowed" funds. Ok great so im trying to pay it back. Im not asking to be pardoned...perhaps down the line when this information regarding how fractional reserve banking works becomes more mainstream we can start to pursue pardons for debt but that might be bad for the economy as well. This is why it is described as a self perpetuating system. However...the banks hold the power and they always will becuase of fractional reserve banking and the only way to stop it is to stop lending which you cant do in todays society. We are in too deep and there is no other way out other than another depression.

reply to post by BluByWho


I applaud you for even attempting to make these points - and you are 100% correct - but you have to remember who your talking to. Certain posters in this thread so desperately want to rationalize their bad consumer behavior that they blame it on everyone - the banks, the government, etc. They refuse to simply take personal responsibility, get a job or three, and pay off their loans. They refuse to live a lifestyle that matches the income they make - they believe they are entitled to a lifestyle higher than what they can afford.

Any attempt at getting them to understand that they cannot blame the big evil credit card companies for their own problems will only result in endless insults, and you being called names. Good luck - I am happy to see some reason brought in this thread.

And by the way, GUICE2 - you should really take a law class. I'm not a lawyer, but you'd be surprised just one how one law class elective enlightens you. Any court action against banks would not be criminal, it would be civil. YOUR particular gripes would fail miserably, but it would in any case fall under contract law, and if you really want to be laughed out of court, perhaps tort law.

Originally posted by GUICE2
reply to post by apc

 

What the courts need to understand is that there is no fair playing in this industry which is purposefully geared to favor the banks and creditors. It is only when an account gos into default for 90 days that you can settle and why is that? Why force us to accrue extra interest if we want the account to be settled now because we intend on not paying any more ridiculous interest than we have to? My ideological arguments have their place in this situation regarding debt and its tyrannical hold on the country. They know its harmful to the populace and yet they perpetuate the system anyway creating the illusion that there is actual value to what is lent to consumers when really the interest that they collect is all profit. The only thing they lose is an entry in their microsoft excel accounting file.

The reason you can only settle after 90 days of delinquency is because at that point you have become such a credit risk that the bank is willing to take more of something rather than continuing to get nothing. Why should you be able to settle a debt at any time? So I go and borrow $8000 from you tomorrow and the next day I say I want to settle, I'll give you $2000 back and call it even... deal? Why should you be able to pay your bill for less than you owe at any time? You received the goods and services. The illusion is the fact that money has any value at all.

reply to post by mythatsabigprobe



the collapse of the financial system is already underway
~in answer to your question~

the US Fed and central banks are only only making possible an
Orderly Retreat = less painful for the elites scenario


As to what can we expect'';;

expect a new class of banks to become a basic tier in the financial pyramid


these banks will be Chinese &/or Arab models of banking,,,
very oversighted by regulators...and will not allow creative accounting
and such imaginative monsters as 'hedge' or 'options' in the banks
portfilio of 'assets' and 'collateral'

the banks for the masses will be different from banks for investors
and the speculator class of elites.


Shari'a rules in banking is another way the Islamic way is welcomed in the western world. (in place of force)

reply to post by BluByWho

Does a pedophile MAKE a child ask them to come over when their parents are gone?

It's predatory. Period.

reply to post by apc


Invalid analogy. The better one would be, does a prostitute ASK an adult to have sex with them?

Two consenting parties, except the prostitute (the bank) is the one getting asked, by someone who is by law considered an adult (the card holder).

We should also begin regulating McDs. ITS PREDATORY EATING, I TELL YOU!



[edit on 27-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

Originally posted by apc
reply to post by BluByWho

 

Does a pedophile MAKE a child ask them to come over when their parents are gone?

It's predatory. Period.

No a pedophile doesnt, and I wouldnt expect a child to make an adult decision. Why dont we try comparing apples to apples.

Don't pity these people. The vast majority deserve their financial problems. It's called living within your means people. If your making $7 an hour at McDonald's you probably shouldn't be driving a Dodge Magnum. I'm not saying people should be misers and save every penny they earn; never indulging. Rather, you some common sense. Set up a budget that offers some fiscal flexibility. If you make $1000 a month, don't rack up a $1000 in bills per month, because as soon as an unexpected expense comes along, you're screwed. It's all common sense people.

I don't feel sorry for anyone that signed up for an adjustable rate mortgage. They knew the risks when they got into even if they were explained to them in kindergarten terms, they were right there in black and white in the contracts that they signed. Why sign a contract if you don't fully understand it? Hell, the same itself tells you that the interest rates are subject to change...

The absolute worst part of all of this, in my opinion, is that it takes away from those people that, through illness or some other cataclysmic event fall behind on their bills. These people are being lumped in with all of the idiots that didn't pay their bills simply because they have no self-control and choose to overspend.

You can argue all you want but you can’t argue with the Lord. Usury is a sin. Why do you think Jesus threw the moneylenders out of the temple. I paid $55,000 for my home 20 years ago. By the time it is paid off I will have paid the mortgage company almost $300,000.00. And I have a fairly low interest rate.

“He lends at usury and takes excessive interest. Will such a man live? He will not. Because he has done all these detestable things, he will surely be put to death and his blood will be on his own head.” Exekiel 18:13

“... you take usury and excessive interest and make unjust gain from your neighbors by extortion. And you have forgotten me, declares the Sovereign Lord.” Exekiel 22:12

My house is not worth close to $300,000.00. I would call the extra $145,000 I paid to the bank “excessive interest”. I would call $100,000 “excessive interest".

Where are the George Bailey’s of the world when you need them. Long gone.

(Sorry atheist! Ignore post)