Americans Falling Behind on Credit Card Payments at Alarming Rate

As i stated before....please educate yourself with this information and do some more digging. I am currently doing the same and trust me, i am a skeptic but some of this information is right in front of our faces like "fractional reserve banking" and there are no if ands or buts about the fact that fraud is taking place.

fdrs.org...

Apc, there are two sides to every coin.

Debtors should have been responsible when taking out all that debt. On the other hand, The idea that creditors had the right to set interest rates whatever they feel like after the original loan has begun to be paid, is a new one in American banking. It used to be illegal to change the rate on a loan without the other party's consent. federal law forbade this, as did most states until the early 70's. Even then, most states had a limit to how much the rate could be changed from the original rate.

There was a time when any interest rate over 12% was considered usury, and the loan was legally forfeit (repealed in Texas in 1978). That's why loan sharks had to break legs to enforce their loans in the old days.

But thanks to bribes and kickbacks to the House and Senate Banking committees, that's all a thing of the past.

The latest wrinkle is that creditors can change your interest rate based on your credit rating. In other words, if you miss a payment to one creditor, once, the rest of them can raise your rate even though your are not late with "their" payment.

Citibank came up with this, because they noticed that debtors wobble before they fall down, and they try to collect as much as possible before you collapse. All the other banks followed suit, and I've heard that GM does it too now---if you are late with your credit cards, they will jack up your car payments to extract maximum dollars before they repossess.

The trouble is, the banks have the best lawyers in America on their side, and years of special interest legislation in place. The average consumer doesn't stand a chance when they borrow money.


One of my dreams is, when/if my personal wealth ever passes 10 million, is to open a personal, non-profit, bank and insurance business. I'd give out home loans and credit-payoff loans at 7%, and also offer gold-backed "investment notes."

I'd also offer non-profit car insurance, with no advertizing; just word of mouth.

.

Originally posted by GUICE2
And what exactly do you think the commercial banks do?
They lend money they do not have and then are allowed to create 10% more to do whatever they want with them

I just don't see what's hard to understand about the idea that a bank is a business. They provide a service, and instead of keeping my cash in a stocking, I withdraw my money from an ATM in Bangkok or Paris and can take an auto loan when my car breaks down. It all works. If you don't like the idea, don't go to the bank at all.

they had no funds to lend in the first place and use unethical and fraudulent accounting practices to create money...

That's a libel. If you can't read your contractual obligations, whose fault is that? If you think they violated the contract, take them to court. End of story.

also just becaue the terms and conditions exist doesnt mean that the creditor has accomplished the necessary means of full disclosure.

That's one baseless statement. If you go into a contract, the onus is on you to read it.

They make it fine print for a reason because they know people will miss the important information and they take advantage of those less knowledgable.

And if the print is large, they's have to send you a book instead of two pages, and you'd probably find the book too thick to bother to read.

reply to post by buddhasystem

The fact that they are a business is no reason to take advantage of people....and someone already made this argument.
Also...the terms and conditions are not assumed and neither is the fact that you read and understood them because they have to be presented to you in order to be negotiable right? Thats only common sense. NOn of the terms are cegotiable which right away makes it an invalid contract....so if you ever find yourself in a position where you need funds whether it be for school, food, books, or housing and are not knowledgable of exactly how every detail of the system works then you pretty much have to sign (according to your life situation at that moment). Dont get this wrong....im not passing blame. If the banks actually had the funds to lend and there was a debit and a credit in their books for the 10k in credit they gave me then i would understand the interest because it would truly be USE of FUNDS but if you look into the site i posted before....there are no funds to be used in the first place because they are magically created through fractional reserve banking.
How about the fact that the us govt is in debt to the federal reseve using our rights as citizens as collateral for drawing down funds? What about the fact that our own govt had to file chapter 11 after the fed reserve act was signed thereby forcing more loans to be administered to them from the federal reserve. The crap of it is is that there were no funds to be lent because gold and silver were no more used to back the currency that existed in this country. So then what happens? The people need money from their checking accounts right? So they have to print more money which then leads to inflation....its not a product of some vicious economic cycle that they teach you in business administration or economics 101....its a direct biproduct of the fraction reserve banking practices that all commercial banks use to create funds for themselves and put back into circulation to create inflation so that they can control the currency and therfore the people of the US.

reply to post by dr_strangecraft


No argument there. Most consumer lenders these days are 100% scum. They deserve to have their loans go unpaid for being stupid enough to lend to people they knew couldn't pay it back. But absolute fault always falls on the borrower. Universal Default clauses are spelled out in the cardmember agreement, as is the interest rate and the events that would cause a rate increase if variable (personally I think if you can't get a fixed rate or at least locked at prime+0 you shouldn't be opening the account at all).

One of my dreams is, when/if my personal wealth ever passes 10 million, is to open a personal, non-profit, bank and insurance business. I'd give out home loans and credit-payoff loans at 7%...

A lot of credit unions already do this.


>
GUICE2, cardmember agreements are absolutely negotiable. You can negotiate better interest rates, for instance. But in the end if you don't like what's in the agreement, don't open the account. I don't know why you feel you should be able to change your borrower obligations when it's their money you're borrowing.

[edit on 24-12-2007 by apc]

reply to post by apc


I have a 700+ fico score but my interest on one credit card is still 18% and my car loan is 17%.....how is that so? They dont care about your credit history anymore that only mattered probably when they actually could back up what they lent by what they have on deposit....isnt that the way its supposed to be? That makes sense right? Well thats not how it works....there is no money to be lent in the first place and it is actually only created by an accountants entry. Therefore there is no real use of funds and therefore should be no interest charged. They way they go about setting up the legitimacy of the situation is actually fraudulent and according to that site can be labeled as embezzlement and money laundering. Us as the borrowers take fault....i owe about 7500 to mastercard and have owed a balance for about 7 years. I tell you now that i have already paid off probably more because of the interest and i just want out at this point but unfortunately minimum monthly payments are not enough. Why cant they take away that interest so that i can pay it down? They can but they dont want to even though every us borrower has legal ground to force them to do so. Whoever said the banks have the best lawyers is right....thats why we wont win but if you get enough of us together we probably can raise some awareness.

Originally posted by apc
reply to post by dr_strangecraft

 

Dude......there is no money to borrow!! THats the point. Sorry im not yelling at you

Look at that website and the history of the US banks and the central banking system cartel. Thats all it is....a cartel to protect the interest of a few bankers the problem is that it affects our rights as citizens and that is unconstitutional when taking the income tax into consideration. There is a lot of debate as to where those funds go...according to the information i have looked over, the income tax was established to pay off the interest on the already outstanding loans that the US govt had out with the federal reserve at the time. Coincidentally i beleive this took place after the US had to claim chapter 11. AGain...this isnt about getting nothing for free or passing blame as people will probably deduce these arguments to be. It is simply about a fair and level playing field that was manipulated from the early 19th century by private bankers. I understand its a business but they cant own the whole country and they do.....



>
GUICE2, cardmember agreements are absolutely negotiable. You can negotiate better interest rates, for instance. But in the end if you don't like what's in the agreement, don't open the account. I don't know why you feel you should be able to change your borrower obligations when it's their money you're borrowing.

[edit on 24-12-2007 by apc]

You bought a car on a variable interest loan? Now who's fault is that? Next time, try buying the car instead of borrowing it.

If you call your lender and ask for a better interest rate, they are more than likely to grant it. If not, call back to get a different operator, and threaten to move the balance to a different lender if they don't drop the rate. If they still refuse, move the balance to a different lender.

Any talk about where the money came from is irrelevant. You borrowed it on their terms, you are obligated to pay it back on their terms.

Oops
I made the whole thing a quote.....my bad.
The first part is my response to the second part which was the text that i should have quoted.

Originally posted by GUICE2
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

The fact that they are a business is no reason to take advantage of people....and someone already made this argument.

When a plumber fixes a leaky toilet in your house and charges $80 per hour plus $87 in parts, all valid, is that "taking advantage" of the stink your bathroom?

so if you ever find yourself in a position where you need funds whether it be for school, food, books, or housing and are not knowledgable of exactly how every detail of the system works then you pretty much have to sign

You don't. You have to be an adult and behave correspondigly. If you are not sure you can afford something or undestand the paper you are signing, and still sign it, that's just plain infantile.

reply to post by apc


If i had a nickel for every time i asked to have my rate lowered....i would have a santa sack bag full of nickels. THey just dont do it.....and it is totally about where the money came from because it didnt come from anywhere and that fact is what causes inflation. Hear that? Inflation is purposefully created by the central banking system....how effed up is that?
How many troubles can you attribute to inflation? Probably a lot...
Also what about the terms of being a human and a citizen of this country?
We sign, we dont read the entire aggreement because either we dont thin kit matters or we just dont know any better.....does that mean i am to be punished for the rest of my life with high interest?

I know full well what the Federal Reserve is doing. How does that force you to agree to a contract without understanding it? It doesn't. It is therefore irrelevant.

Originally posted by GUICE2
We sign, we dont read the entire aggreement because either we dont thin kit matters or we just dont know any better.....does that mean i am to be punished for the rest of my life with high interest?

Yes. But I would hope you don't make that choice, for it is entirely yours to make.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Your right....which is why i dont apply for loans or credit cards anymore. Yet how many people just are not smart enough to understand what the terms and conditions really mean or that they even exist? A lot which is why the topic of this thread exists....its happening worldwide and the fact that there were no funds to lend just makes the entire thing that much worse.

This "deal with it" attitude doesnt solve any problems....debtors deal with it. They work full time possibly at several jobs and still have trouble pauying off their loans and credit cards so its not an issue of ignorance at this point. The creditors and the central banking system KNOW this about the american people now and then when the federal reserve system was set up. They new that if they controled the currency and the rates that they could control the populace through a modern day slavery which is called debt.

reply to post by apc


So if you are aware of what the federal reserve did and what the commercial banks do (fractional reserve banking)...then how do you condone it? Im sitting here saying tha ti know i made a mistake and am trying to fix it but they set the system up in such a manner that death would come easier before financial freedom.

To add to my comments before, when I called to try and get my interest rate down, they did offer to up my credit limit another $2,500.00! Apparently my credit rating is lousy enough not have them lower the interest rate, but good enough to have me borrow more money. I'm glad I cancelled it.

I'll look into Chase & Citi to see if I can get the balance transferred to a lower rate.

I did talk to my accountant about filing bankruptcy. I was relieved when he said I couldn't because my assets out weight my debt. So for the time being I pray to be very busy with work, to have my clients pay me in a timely fashion and to keep plugging away at the bills.

reply to post by GUICE2


I absolutely don't condone it. I just understand it. It takes two to tango. You entered into a contractual agreement. You're not understanding or failing to even read what you signed is your fault, not theirs.

Here's something to say when you call, "I've recently received a zero percent offer from XXX Bank. I wanted to see if you can compete." They'll offer something a few points lower. "Can you do better than that? How about closer to 10%?" If they can't, there really are plenty of lenders happy to give you zero percent for a year or so on a balance transfer. So transfer it.

reply to post by mistressofspices


Moving the balances doesnt solve anything either...in fact it just gives the next bank an excuse to create more magical funds and lend at high interest rates as well and increases the "money" in their reserves by not only the amount of your loan or credit balance but also the fractional increase that they choose fit for that situation. The only way is to get out of debt....my question was always why do they have to make it so difficult? There is no reason to charge high interest and it used to be illegal for loan sharks so why can they do it?

For anyone here at ATS who cannot pay their credit cards,
or know someone- a friend, family member or loved one
who is on hard times and is looking at possible bankruptcy...

SOME ADVICE:

If you are gnerally short on cash... pay your basic bills
(like telephone and heating and daycare and car payments and
insurance and things like that)
and STOP paying your credit cards altogether...

Remember to pay your mortgage, though...

Anyway- do not pay any credit card minimum payments
for about 6 months... you will be called 92 times a day,
but use Caller ID and/or turn the ringer off.

If you bounce back and get a new job, resume payments
and work out a plan to repay the back payments... ask for
the penalties to be removed, and ask for a reduction in interest rates-
they will actually do it- some of them at least.

IF YOU STILL CANNOT PAY AFTER 6 MONTHS
and you are desperate and considering bankruptcy
(which is a valid- but last- option)
then do this:

Call all of them up (scary to do, but you can do it!)
and offer each company.... ready?

Offer them all 15% of the debt- with ZERO interest.

Pay them this over 6 months to a year.

MOST of them will accept this-
if you do it BEFORE they sell your debt to a collection agency.

SOME of you have a moral indignation about people and debt...
well, I do not... people generally want to pay debt back, but stuff happens.

I AM NOT a financial advisor- I am a filmmaker- so do not take my advice
as professional, er, advice...

I am just relating a true story of what happened to a close friend...

They ALL took 15%...

He reduced a $130,000 debt to around $19,000 payable over 6-12 months.

Just trying to help.

Oh yeah- and as far as guilt- if you were paying back a friend or family member 15% of a loan... that would not be cool.

But these large companies manke BILLIONS off the USURY interest they charge of 20 to 30 and EVEN 40%.

So, from point of view... well, these companies are nothing more than INCORPORATED loan sharks who ruin credit and harrass you on the phone instead of breaking your legs.


Good luck, and DO NOT WORRRY about your debt--- have a nice holiday and forget about it until January 2nd!


T.............................................

reply to post by apc


If you understand it then why are you still saying "fault" as in im trying to blame someone for my debt? Thats not what im doing....you arent understanding me. If you understand what they do then you will understand that transfering the balances does nothing except create more funds for them and the central bankers....it perpetuates the system more than anything else.
Also....if you understand what they do then how do you not see the fraud involved? Did you read the site at all? I found it shocking how some of the practices these commercial banks use are so very close to and probably are money laundering and embezzlement.

these are the same people who own america, who have other persoanl companies that they pay lobbists to go and sway a certain law or bill or even add something to help that greedy lil ceo of such aN suck,

wake up and smell the forthcomming crisis. A depression that will make being Poor a Luxury.