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Americans Falling Behind on Credit Card Payments at Alarming Rate

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posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by Extralien

If they take you to court over it, you've got a copy of your letter which includes the payment details and date and account number etc. plus your latest statement showing the payment was accepted..

They've not got a leg to stand on.


HA HA Where did you get that,, some credit repair manual? That may have worked in the past but adding full and final payment doesn't make it so but its funny. The credit card legalese has got that old trick covered, They are only required to the same original fiduciary responsibilities and obligations you are. Adding an addendum to that in the form of a check when the original conract allows them to take the payment as that is what is owed but what one party adds to that in an attempt to breach the original contract makes the addendum un-enforceable.
They set no precedent by accepting the payment without agreeing to it under the new terms of the agreement. You agree to THEIR contract they don't have to agree to yours.


- Con




posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 04:24 PM
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Municipal bond rely on credit insurers to guarantee their AAA rating so that when they are in trouble holders of these instruments are guaranteed to get their money back by the third party insurer. What happens when the counterparty is undercapitalized and cannot gaurantee coverage? This is the situation that is now developing with these insurers like MBIA and ACA Financial Why do municipalities rely on insurance to gaurantee their bonds if they are absolutely safe? The fact of the matter is many of these munis have parked alot of cash in high yielding CDOs and mortgage backed securities as well as relying on property taxes for income. They are also vulnerable to credit downgrades and when their insurer loses its tripple A credit rating these munis will also lose theirs. Once that happens many institutions that hold them will be forced to unload them.

Granted you may understand more about the workings of government than I do but I will bet you dollars to donuts you do not have a clue about how our financial system works as I have worked on Wall Street for a large brokerage firm for 20 years. And I can tell you unequivically that Wall Street has perpetrated the biggest fraud on the American people we have ever seen and this is now coming back on them and everyone else.

You are somebody who believes and listens to spin. You are probably someone who buys and holds for 20 years. What has the Dow and S&P 500 returned investors in the last 10 years? Adjusted for inflation an investor has actually lost money buying and holding. While I do some trading over the short term my biggest money has been made investing in major long term trends and I can tell you the long term trend of the US dollar is down.

Many thought real estate was a safe investment but look at the reality. As a former insider in Wall Street I am telling you straight up how it is. The credit ratings you get from Moody's, Fitch etc. are all biased garbage. That is how Wall Street has swindled the public only now because big lawsuits are right on their doorstep they are now forced to lower their ratings on a whole slew of companies not only the credit insurers. Watch what will happen in the new year when these downgrades come out. Don't say I didn't warn you. Frankly I counldn't care less if you or anybody heeds my warning or not. I am doing great financially thank you very much but I do feel the need to come clean and help people understand the great scam that has been perpetrated on them. There, I have said enough now and will not add further to this topic.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by cbew
 


I highly recommend a government finance course if you are going to spread misinformation. Government relies on insurance because it makes people feel safer. Its like FDIC insurance - the chance of a failure happening is almost 0, but it makes people feel better. As such, its mandated by GASB (GOVERNMENTAL ACCOUNTING STANDARDS BOARD).

Also, YOU are someone who buys into the spin and hype of TV. They love people like you, going nuts and selling because they like to create emotion and drama. You can pick any random point and show a low gain, I can pick any 10 year point and show a huge gain. Emotional sellers love to use that tactic, but it fails every single time.

If you thought real estate was safe you really do buy into the media hype. Never has been and never will be. Its speculation - if you get into it, your just a gambler. You enjoy selling and causing panic, while I sit back and profit



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
Pre-approved means that you have already been approved for the initial offer. Retracting the statement in fine print doesn't change the fact that they lied in the first place in bold print.

You are condoning dishonesty. You advocate lying as legitimate business. You are wrong.


Yes EXACTLY it is the typical legalese used that is mis-leading to the average baker and candlestick maker and THAT is WHY they say it that way. Whether or not it is fraud is where they can use that "other" rationale for saying it that way and it is just as legitimate.

It boils down to the old axiom Caveat Emptor

[edit on 29-12-2007 by Conspiriology]



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 10:58 PM
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Ok, I have read through the entire topic, and I am amazed at all the different topics being discussed, in this one topic.

I am not going to try and defend the Fed, but that is a different topic. Anyone can start a bank, if they have enough money. They can make loans, if enough loans default, the bank will go under.

Some one suggested watching Frontline about Credit Card system. I stayed up late one night when it was originally on and watched it. Excellent.

Here’s my story, and I am not an expert. I hope if I explain it correctly, it will help others.

As a single guy, I did pretty much what I pleased…. Paid my bill’s and enjoyed life. When I got married, I started accruing debt. Small at first, but we used credit cards to keep up with the neighbors. Of course there was always an excuse. We had creditors calling us. I have to admit, most of the bills that came to the house were left on opened.

I dreaded that day of the month when we would sit down and tally our monies, and then try to pay as many bills as we could.

Finally, one day I started looking at how much interest we were paying per month, (not counting the mortgage). I have to say, I was shocked. I remember at the time, we purchased a big ticket item (can’t remember what), but it was about 1200 dollars. I found out we were paying more than 1200 per month in interest. We could buy one of what ever it was, free and clear EVERY month… if we did not have the interest.

That was the turning point… I made a decision never to finance anything that depreciates in value. We started paying down the debt. It took awhile at first, but then it started falling fast. Once we got rid of the credit card debt, we took out the car payments.

I have to say to this day, I don’t like any type of financial commitment… i.e. cell phone contracts or cable companies. That’s not to say we don’t have cell phones, or cable, but we don’t go hog wild.

I figure there are two types of people in this world. Lenders or borrowers…. Now, which one do you want to be?

I learned a lot in this process. When we bought our first house, the creditors said we had too much debt. When we got rid of our debt, I told my wife to stop using all credit cards… from that day forward we only used our Debt cards (bank cards)….
So when we went to finance our second house, the creditors told us, we did not have enough of a credit record.

Now THAT is a scam… I have to use their products to get a good score so I can get a reasonable mortgage. The Lenders have done a great job of convincing people they can afford that camera, stereo… what ever… because they can afford the monthly payment.
No one stops and thinks, hey by making monthly payments over 3 years, I am paying twice as much for that stereo as necessary.

Since then, and I am not saying this to brag, I am hoping to relate that there is a different way. Since then, we have bought two cars with cash… I have to say, the dealership does not know how to deal with a cash transaction. I remember the guy trying to get us to “lease” the car… (major SCAM), he asked… “How long do you plan on keeping the car?”

My response,.. “Till they stop selling gas.”

Look if you want to save money on a car, stereo, camera… walk in with cash. The company that sells you the widget, pays the credit card company a percentage… that’s why you get a 30 day grace period. I have never been turned down.

We needed a new central air system for the house. The guy told me the price and how I could finance monthly payments. I offered him cash for 30% off. I have never been refused. Even Sears will negotiate big ticket items (try it).

My son wanted to take karate lessons, they offered low monthly payments for a year, I gave them 50% cash up front.

I have not checked my credit score in several years, but I plan on doing it next year. Reason being, we are going to be selling our house and buy a new one.

Truth be told, I am not worried about my credit score, since I keep getting credit cards in the mail. I have a stack in my desk drawer at least 3 inches high.

Now here are a couple of tools to help you.

1) Start banking on-line… when I stated, I would check my balance daily. Now, I do it every couple of days. You would be amazed at how many mistakes a bank can make, never in your favor. I have found fraudulent charges, and all it takes is a phone call.
2) When a bill comes in, open it and log on to the bank and schedule it to be paid, especially utilities. That one step probably increased my credit score by 100 points. We no longer have the sit down pay bills night.
3) I fight paying ANY interest. I bought a DVD player for the mini-van from Car Toys. They would not negotiate a cash price, but offered 1 year interest free. So, I scheduled electronic monthly payments with my bank, approx $50 per month. One day, the payment fell on a Saturday, and Car Toys choose not to process it, until Monday. Then they charged me a $49 dollar late fee. I won’t go into the verbal details, but the lady on the phone responded with, “Sir, I can remove the charge, but you need to calm down.” 


I forgot to mention, it took about 5 years. But after putting down 5% for our house… we should be totally debt free, mortgage included, in May.

I hope this can help somebody else.



posted on Dec, 30 2007 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by WideBody
 



Now this sounds like fair and balanced advice. Admitting there is a problem with the system, but that people are not necessarily completely helpless against it.

In your particular case, you were lucky enough to learn this painful lesson before it affected you negatively for the rest of your life. I applaude you for the measures you took, and the rules you now live by.

Having said all of that though, I must reiterate that there are people who learn all of this after it is too late, and there are other people who know full well the consequences but are left with little choice. They choose to use their credit cards in a vain attempt to stall the inevitable. I am not trying to make excuses for the people who complain about all the interest they are paying on their big TV and the Esclade, but it is important to realize that there are far more people using a credit card to heat their homes and feed their children. I really have little sympathy for a person who gets a fifty-thousand dollar car reposessed, but I am gravely concerned about the growing number of Americans that are using credit for daily living expenses.



posted on Dec, 31 2007 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by WideBody
 


I commend you for what you posted, never once did you blame the bank, never once did you blame the high interest. You realized you were in trouble and you fixed your situation and seated the blame on yourself. I wish everyone took that attitude.

Being in uncontrollable debt is one of the worst feelings in the world, I too was in a similar situation, once I got out of debt one of the worst feelings turned into one of the greatest feelings of accomplishment.

I realize some people don't realize they are too far in, or refuse to accept it, but it is never too late. It may require some people to skimp on the spending in areas they would rather not but to get out of debt you will have to make some sacrifices. You could also rummage thru your residence and find as many items you dont NEED or that just sit around and sell them in the classifieds to gather up some $.



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by GUICE2
but they set the system up in such a manner that death would come easier before financial freedom.
Now that possibility is looking more and more
appealing in this day and age. Just kill myself and there will be no more
juice to ring out of the turnip.

Hey, at least I won't have to deal with the $hit any more.

I am one of those who have not paid those high interest
rates. I have quit paying them altogether. Frankly I don't
give a crap what they do to my credit. I don't make enough
money at work to pay the 200% increase in gas and 100%
increase in food and 100% increase in insurance and 45%
increase in energy (electric) and 50% increase in mortgage
note and the list goes on and on.

A credit card was my only way to stay afloat through all
of it since my wages haven't increased in 10 years. But everything
else has. People can't survive in that economy. Maybe it's
best if we don't.

I'll see ya on the other side. I hope it's better than this one.
Corporate greed has taken over this one.



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by SimonSays
[mor
According to some.....your plight is all your fault. you used credit cards to stay afloat? What do you mean? you used them to buy food, books or other life needs? Well some on this thread would say that you shouldnt have bought them at all since you didnt have the money at the time and they would suggest adding 5 more jobs to your scheduale. WORK LIKE A DOG TO SURVIVE! The problem is how long can you go on living like a dog? People keep saying "dont use money you dont have!".....well i ask this again about the creditors: Why can they "Lend" money that they dont have and collect interest on it? Its a good question....look into how they actually extend the credit to you. You are being lied to from the moment you pick up the application because you are told it is an application for a card when really its an application for an application for credit. Also look into how the creditor is allowed to "change" the document from an application to a "check" and deposit it in their reserve accounts to "create" the credit. The only way to defeat this system right now is to pay most of it off and negotiate reasonable terms on the unreasonably high interest rates and fees.



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by SimonSays

Originally posted by GUICE2
but they set the system up in such a manner that death would come easier before financial freedom.
Now that possibility is looking more and more
appealing in this day and age. Just kill myself and there will be no more
juice to ring out of the turnip.

Hey, at least I won't have to deal with the $hit any more.

I am one of those who have not paid those high interest
rates. I have quit paying them altogether. Frankly I don't
give a crap what they do to my credit. I don't make enough
money at work to pay the 200% increase in gas and 100%
increase in food and 100% increase in insurance and 45%
increase in energy (electric) and 50% increase in mortgage
note and the list goes on and on.

A credit card was my only way to stay afloat through all
of it since my wages haven't increased in 10 years. But everything
else has. People can't survive in that economy. Maybe it's
best if we don't.

I'll see ya on the other side. I hope it's better than this one.
Corporate greed has taken over this one.


If it weren't for the bank you would be dead or homeless.

Here's how YOU can get out of debt. Sell your car and take public transportation, that eliminates your gas/car insurance cost. Get rid of the internet/cable/phone, you obviously cant afford those, they are luxuries people in your situation shouldn't have. Sell your house, you cant afford it, or take on roommates/renters.

Someone who takes money from the bank knowing they cant pay it back is just as bad as the ridiculous interest rates they charge, its because of people like you that interest rates are ridiculous.

How did your mortgage note increase? ARM? Did you research how an ARM works before you took it out? Or did you whack your credit so bad you cant refinance now?

Sounds to me like you need a 2nd job to get yourself out of debt. Or a new job all together if you haven't received a raise in 10 years.

EDIT: to add: Typical debtor reference to a turnip, a vegetable didn't sign the contract...... YOU DID.

There's 2 side to the fence: The one's that blame the bank and the ones who take personal responsibility for their lack of financial planning skills.
[edit on 3-1-2008 by BluByWho]

[edit on 3-1-2008 by BluByWho]



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by BluByWho
If it weren't for the bank you would be dead or homeless.


If it weren't for the bank, I'd be trading furs and trinkets
for what I need. Which is a lot better than owing my very
existence to somebody else.


Originally posted by BluByWho
Here's how YOU can get out of debt. Sell your car and take public transportation, that eliminates your gas/car insurance cost.


LOL, I live in a rural area in a 5 room shack. No such public
transportation exists where I live. So it's not quite as simple
as just going down to a bus stop. No wheels means no job.


Originally posted by BluByWho
Get rid of the internet/cable/phone, you obviously cant afford those, they are luxuries people in your situation shouldn't have.

well then I can kiss my job good-bye since I need a computer
and internet access to work in technical support after regular
work hours.


Originally posted by BluByWho
Sell your house, you cant afford it, or take on roommates/renters.

already done that (kinda), I own a house but I don't live in it. The renters
do!! when they pay me rent , then I add some to it and make the mortgage
note payment. Not to mention the property taxes due every year for
a house I haven't lived in or used in over 2 years.


Originally posted by BluByWho
Someone who takes money from the bank knowing they cant pay it back is just as bad as the ridiculous interest rates they charge, its because of people like you that interest rates are ridiculous.

You act like I did this intentionally to defraud the bank or credit card
company. I was expecting things to get better. Instead they got worse.
I didn't intend to renig on the debt when I applied for the credit card.
It was a buffer zone between my family and poverty. However, it
appears poverty has found us anyway.


Originally posted by BluByWho
Sounds to me like you need a 2nd job to get yourself out of debt. Or a new job all together if you haven't received a raise in 10 years.

when you change jobs, you start all over again on the raise meter.
So it's not like you work the same job and get raises every 2-3 years.
The job market is different than it was 20 years ago. Most people
don't keep the same job more than 3 years anymore so employers
don't worry bout the raises cuz they know by the time you should get one,
the average employee will leave for another one.


Originally posted by BluByWho
Typical debtor reference to a turnip, a vegetable didn't sign the contract...... YOU DID.

but the contract turned me into a turnip


Originally posted by BluByWho
There's 2 side to the fence: The one's that blame the bank and the ones who take personal responsibility for their lack of financial planning skills.

I don't think my financial planning skills are that bad.
I think the economy is ..... I think the bank's are .......
I think the gubment's are .....

I'm just a peon in the whole mess. And if what you say is the case.
Then there are approximately 50Billion dollars worth of personal
debt out there not being repaid that I had nothing to do with. So
if you want to justify blaming me for that also. Then knock yourself
out. Cuz it seems as though basic financing skills are missed on a global
scale.

Yea, I guess you're right ..... I'm the one responsible for it all .... LMAO



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by SimonSays
 

Once people understand that it isnt as simple as borrowing money and paying it back then we might have some sort of a national understanding of why the current credit and banking systems do more harm than good. That is unless of course you are rich...then you get a card with no limit and no interest. Makes sense right? Charge the guy who can afford high payments no interest at all but overprice the person who can barely afford to make the minimum payments (increased by high interest but can still make the payments) every month and gets sucked down into a whole. So let me see....unless you are a millionaire you dont get any breaks from anyone? Wow, how heartless is that? The world is a twisted place....but they banks and the creditors dont have to twist it even more intentionally!!!



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by SimonSays
If it weren't for the bank, I'd be trading furs and trinkets
for what I need. Which is a lot better than owing my very
existence to somebody else.


If you can get by doing that then how come you arent already?


LOL, I live in a rural area in a 5 room shack. No such public
transportation exists where I live. So it's not quite as simple
as just going down to a bus stop. No wheels means no job.


Carpool? move closer to work?



well then I can kiss my job good-bye since I need a computer
and internet access to work in technical support after regular
work hours.


Understandable



already done that (kinda), I own a house but I don't live in it. The renters
do!! when they pay me rent , then I add some to it and make the mortgage
note payment. Not to mention the property taxes due every year for
a house I haven't lived in or used in over 2 years.


So the house you own isnt the 5 room shack you live in? Why own a home you arent living in or making money on thru renters? that is a bad financial decision, its hurting youi more than its helping, I'd sell it.




You act like I did this intentionally to defraud the bank or credit card
company. I was expecting things to get better. Instead they got worse.
I didn't intend to renig on the debt when I applied for the credit card.
It was a buffer zone between my family and poverty. However, it
appears poverty has found us anyway.


You were using the credit card on necessaries, things you needed to survive, if you couldnt have afforded it without the credit card how could you have expected to pay the credit card back, you hadnt gotten a raise in 10 years.



when you change jobs, you start all over again on the raise meter.
So it's not like you work the same job and get raises every 2-3 years.
The job market is different than it was 20 years ago. Most people
don't keep the same job more than 3 years anymore so employers
don't worry bout the raises cuz they know by the time you should get one,
the average employee will leave for another one.


Well you havent gotten a raise in 10 years at your current job, how exactly would being at the bottom of the ladder be worse at a new one?



but the contract turned me into a turnip


No it didnt, you signed the receipts, you made the charges, you brought it upon yourself.



I don't think my financial planning skills are that bad.
I think the economy is ..... I think the bank's are .......
I think the gubment's are .....

I'm just a peon in the whole mess. And if what you say is the case.
Then there are approximately 50Billion dollars worth of personal
debt out there not being repaid that I had nothing to do with. So
if you want to justify blaming me for that also. Then knock yourself
out. Cuz it seems as though basic financing skills are missed on a global
scale.


Either your part of the problem or part of the solution, you blame the economy, you blame banks, you blame the government, none of them forced you into this contract or to make the charges. You made those decisions. Basic financial skills are missing on a grand scale, it should be a class taught in high school before people turn 18 and can get credit. I'm not saying your the only one, but a change in attitude can go a long way sometimes. When you hit rock bottom the only place to go is up.



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by BluByWho
If you can get by doing that then how come you arent already?

cuz nobody else is .... I got nobody to trade with



Carpool? move closer to work?

Maybe you didn't understand my prior quote, and how would I
pay for the new closer home to work ??? And nobody works
with me from my hometown so carpool is out.



So the house you own isnt the 5 room shack you live in? Why own a home you arent living in or making money on thru renters? that is a bad financial decision, its hurting youi more than its helping, I'd sell it.

I can't sell it due to I don't have enough equity in it without going
further in debt. A 30 yr mortgage signed in 1995 due to mature
in 2025. And how would selling it make me better off now. However
I do agree that selling it when it's paid off would be wise however
it's not 2025 yet is it?? Selling it would only create more debt
for me paying the same payments on something no longer
tangible.



You were using the credit card on necessaries, things you needed to survive, if you couldnt have afforded it without the credit card how could you have expected to pay the credit card back, you hadnt gotten a raise in 10 years.

Like I said I was expecting things to get better and yes I was using
the card for necessities like groceries, vehicle fuel for work, car insurance,
children's clothes, school items for my kids (paper pencil etc)
among other things. Like I said, if I hadn't had the card then I would
not have what I still got today. If I had not of done this then the
state would have come taken my children cuz I could not provide
them with food and basic necessities. Should I give up my kids
just so I can pay my bills ??? The economy was not like this when
they were born (95 & 97). So when he economy changes do I
get rid of my kids ?? Gas was under $2.00 a gallon when they were
born. Should the economy control whether or not people have children ??
When you got kids to feed, you go to any means necessary to
make sure they are safe. That includes feeding and clothing them any way
you can.



Well you havent gotten a raise in 10 years at your current job, how exactly would being at the bottom of the ladder be worse at a new one?

I haven't work the same job for 10 years, it was an example used.
A new employee with any company means they are passed over for
promotion cuz they lack seniority. So any time you start a new job,
you start at the bottom. That means no raises unless you are hired at
that raised level.



No it didnt, you signed the receipts, you made the charges, you brought it upon yourself.

No, I didn't. The economy did.



Either your part of the problem or part of the solution, you blame the economy, you blame banks, you blame the government, none of them forced you into this contract or to make the charges. You made those decisions. Basic financial skills are missing on a grand scale, it should be a class taught in high school before people turn 18 and can get credit. I'm not saying your the only one, but a change in attitude can go a long way sometimes. When you hit rock bottom the only place to go is up.

with such a mass conspiracy of consumers to defraud the system,
you'd think we'd all be in jail by now. me included.

After all it wouldn't do any good to give schoolers a class in
financial planning cuz what they will learn will be obsolete by the
time they get around to using it. Everything changes so fast,
the only way to play is by trial and error. Seems to be more
on the error side though.



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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Take out as many loans as you can, buy loads of cool and expensive things with credit cards, then move to europe and forget about paying anything back



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by SimonSays




Maybe you didn't understand my prior quote, and how would I
pay for the new closer home to work ??? And nobody works
with me from my hometown so carpool is out.


Rent: no property tax, no mortgage commitment, no maintenance costs.



I can't sell it due to I don't have enough equity in it without going
further in debt. A 30 yr mortgage signed in 1995 due to mature
in 2025. And how would selling it make me better off now. However
I do agree that selling it when it's paid off would be wise however
it's not 2025 yet is it?? Selling it would only create more debt
for me paying the same payments on something no longer
tangible.


So you have been paying on a mortgage for 12 years and your property is now worth less than it was 12 years ago? You also said in a previous post that your mortgage payment went up 50%, how did a 30 year fixed rate go up 50%?



Like I said I was expecting things to get better and yes I was using
the card for necessities like groceries, vehicle fuel for work, car insurance,
children's clothes, school items for my kids (paper pencil etc)
among other things. Like I said, if I hadn't had the card then I would
not have what I still got today. If I had not of done this then the
state would have come taken my children cuz I could not provide
them with food and basic necessities. Should I give up my kids
just so I can pay my bills ??? The economy was not like this when
they were born (95 & 97). So when he economy changes do I
get rid of my kids ?? Gas was under $2.00 a gallon when they were
born. Should the economy control whether or not people have children ??
When you got kids to feed, you go to any means necessary to
make sure they are safe. That includes feeding and clothing them any way
you can.


So the banks and consumers pay the price because you made an error in judgment about what the economy was going to do? Your referring to gas prices from 10-12 years ago, i mean at 4% inflation they should be $3.20 a gallon today, inflation should not break the bank, and if it is you need to rebudget and start saving money. No you shouldn't give up your kids to pay your bills, you should sign off this website and get back to work to make some money to pay your bills, and then when you leave that job you should probably start looking in the classifieds for a second one to do the right thing and pay back the money you owe.



I haven't work the same job for 10 years, it was an example used.
A new employee with any company means they are passed over for
promotion cuz they lack seniority. So any time you start a new job,
you start at the bottom. That means no raises unless you are hired at
that raised level.


Or you could bust your rear end at a new job, prove you a worthy of a promotion and pass up those so called people who are higher up the ladder. You may start at the bottom, its up to YOU how fast you move up the ladder.


with such a mass conspiracy of consumers to defraud the system,
you'd think we'd all be in jail by now. me included.

No, I wouldnt think everyone would be in jail, I would think we'd be exactly where we are at, a tanking economy and a bunch of people who want to put the blame anywhere but on themselves.



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by BluByWho
 


Let me give an example of how I interpret your logic:

A man's car breaks down in a city he does not know. He gets out and starts walking. A few blocks away he is robbed and shot.

It is not the fault of the person who shot him though, because the man should have known not to walk down the street that everyone knows is gang-controlled territory. Furthermore, if the man had gone and gotten his car fixed before it broke down he never would have been in this predicament to start with.

Does that just about sum it up?



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


Or this one.....a high school goes out with a guy from the football team that everyone knows is a jerk, but he's cute so she goes out with him anyway (signed the dotted line quickly too!). The date goes well, nice diner, nice movie....then comes the time for him to take her home. Yet he makes it increasingly difficult by asking her to stay out, or driving around. Then he starts touching her legs, not violently though but enough for one to say he was harrassing her. She keep trying to push him back....isnt really fearful for her life but is under much stress and wants out of the situation. Yet he makes it even more difficult by locking the door and driving into his garage where he then takes full advantage of her and WHAM!! Date rape ensues......but wait. It was her fault....she didnt say no exactly, she know he was a football playing jock jerk and has heard rumors that he may have done this before. She brought it on herself so he cant be prosecuted. this is great logic when trying to fix the problems that exist within a countrie's economy.



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by BluByWho
 


Let me give an example of how I interpret your logic:

A man's car breaks down in a city he does not know. He gets out and starts walking. A few blocks away he is robbed and shot.

It is not the fault of the person who shot him though, because the man should have known not to walk down the street that everyone knows is gang-controlled territory. Furthermore, if the man had gone and gotten his car fixed before it broke down he never would have been in this predicament to start with.

Does that just about sum it up?



Maybe you should read the whole thread before you draw your conclusions about what I think rather than the last 2 posts.

Did the man know his car was broken? (I ask since you put the option of having it fixed before he left) Because if he did then yes, based on your story, as unfortunate as it is its his fault.

My logic is simple, if you dont have the CASH to pay for the things you NEED you shouldnt be using someone elses money you cant afford to pay back.

And if your analogy is supposed to draw some type of comparison to a credit card, when you take the card out you know exactly what "street" he is walking down, because it is clearly explained to him in the cardmember agreement.



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by BluByWho
 


Right...so the man walking into a mine field that had a huge sign that stated simply "MINE FIELD AHEAD" is asking for it. However....you made the mistake of saying the word "clearly" in your post because nothing is made perfectly clear since most of it is fine print and unless people carry magnifying glasses around them (and microscopes for the microprint which is the dotted line) nothing is "clearly" explained. The information is there in tiny words but honestly.....can fine print actually be described as being "clear" and "upfront"? Most people see it as a way to purposefully trap those people who dont know or have the time to sit down and read every dirty little rotten term and condition. Its like the pious man who finds a wallet on the street and yells out in a loud voice "DID ANYONE LOSE...." and then under his breath says almost inaudible "a wallet full of money."




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