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Americans Falling Behind on Credit Card Payments at Alarming Rate

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posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by jones
You can argue all you want but you can’t argue with the Lord. Usury is a sin. Why do you think Jesus threw the moneylenders out of the temple. I paid $55,000 for my home 20 years ago. By the time it is paid off I will have paid the mortgage company almost $300,000.00. And I have a fairly low interest rate.

“He lends at usury and takes excessive interest. Will such a man live? He will not. Because he has done all these detestable things, he will surely be put to death and his blood will be on his own head.” Exekiel 18:13

“... you take usury and excessive interest and make unjust gain from your neighbors by extortion. And you have forgotten me, declares the Sovereign Lord.” Exekiel 22:12

My house is not worth close to $300,000.00. I would call the extra $145,000 I paid to the bank “excessive interest”. I would call $100,000 “excessive interest".

Where are the George Bailey’s of the world when you need them. Long gone.

(Sorry atheist! Ignore post)


How many years of saving would it take you to be able to afford the luxury of that home if the bank didnt lend you any money?

I wouldn't quote the bible in regards to usury until you quote the bible in regards to what is says about being in debt ;-)




posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by jones
 


Typical "blame it on the company" response. Who is it that forced you into a mortgage? The bank? Who is it that choose to sign the contract for you? The bank?


apc

posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by BluByWho
 


Why don't you expect the child to make adult decisions? Is it because they don't understand the consequences? Have they been manipulated into making a bad choice? Do they just not know any better?

Sound familiar?

Don't get me wrong... I think people like guice have gotten what they asked for and it's now up to them to get themselves out of it. And people like lightwhatever are asking for their own problems by humping a credit card at every chance. But this cancer is harming EVERYONE, not just the people who signed on the dotted line. THAT is why we must intervene and put a stop to these predatory lending practices. It is rotting this country from within and we are just beginning to smell the stench.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by apc
reply to post by BluByWho
 


Why don't you expect the child to make adult decisions? Is it because they don't understand the consequences? Have they been manipulated into making a bad choice? Do they just not know any better?

Sound familiar?

Don't get me wrong... I think people like guice have gotten what they asked for and it's now up to them to get themselves out of it. And people like lightwhatever are asking for their own problems by humping a credit card at every chance. But this cancer is harming EVERYONE, not just the people who signed on the dotted line. THAT is why we must intervene and put a stop to these predatory lending practices. It is rotting this country from within and we are just beginning to smell the stench.


I dont expect a child to make adult decisions because the child isnt an adult! If an adult wants to know the consequences of defaulting on a credit card they can find those in the cardmember agreement, they havent been manipulated in any way, they were simply made an offer. If they dont know any better that isnt the banks fault


If banks offered credit cards to children then I'd say that is usury, predatory lendint et al. because the children wouldnt understand the contract, as an adult it is your responsibility to educate yourself, not the banks. (I feel like a broken record)

I agree that it effects everyone, you want to know who it effects the most? The people who actually pay their bills on time.

Everyone wants to be mad at the big bad bank, when sometimes its the person in the mirror they need to focus that energy on.

I think the banks need more regulation in regards to credit cards, but not until consumers start educating themselves.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by BluByWho
 


It wouldnt be at any time....of course these cases are determined individually so in my case it has been 10 years, high interest up to 32% and as low as 18%. not to mention a few hidden fees here and there a few years back. So its not anytime....



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by jones
 


Boo hoo! I took a out a $55,000 mortgage and ended up paying $300,000... You knew there was an interest rate. Why are you complaining? No one held a gun to your head and forced you to take that loan. Stop blaming others for your poor decision making.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by LightinDarkness
reply to post by jones
 


Typical "blame it on the company" response. Who is it that forced you into a mortgage? The bank? Who is it that choose to sign the contract for you? The bank?


I'm glad to see at least somebody is on the same page as me and understands that the responsibility ultimately lies on the consumer.


apc

posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by BluByWho
I agree that it effects everyone, you want to know who it effects the most? The people who actually pay their bills on time.

...

I think the banks need more regulation in regards to credit cards, but not until consumers start educating themselves.

That's all I'm saying. I'm glad you agree.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by apc
 


I am sorry that you cannot understand that a vast majority of people use credit to their own advantage. Just because you are incapable of doing so should not preclude others from taking advantage of credit. I am also happy to see I got to you so much that you feel the need to include me personally in your post.


Stupidity is not an excuse. The government should not over regulate an entire industry because a few people are stupid. Or would you also like to regulate - I don't know - EVERYTHING else. No more alcohol for you, because some idiot will drink too much. No more McDonalds for you, because someone will eat too much. Some regulation is fine, but who is it that gets to determine what is predatory? Anytime the bank collects money?

Adults have a responsibility to act like adults. They are no longer children. If they do not understand what they are signing, they should not be signing anything.

[edit on 27-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 02:01 PM
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Im done arguing about this....i never said i am not taking personal responsiblity because i am taking care of my debt right now actually.
Its obviously an issue of perception.....no one suffers from me not paying my monthly payment because the money wasnt lent to us inthe frist place which is why organizations like the website i have previously posted LEGALLY illiminate credit card debt. Thats the truth...look into it. They pass off applications as promissory notes and deposit them into an account like a check and that is illegal. The federal debt relief system has a group of lawyers that take care of this so there is no more argument for me. You people are sick....im not blaming anyone for my choices and you still make the claim that i went to buy a tv and then said i shouldnt have to pay for it. Im dont with this thread.....keep accusing your fellow man and keep creating these separations betwen us in society and see how far it gets the human race.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by GUICE2
 


Yes, you are sick. Blaming the banks, the government - everyone - for the debt your in. It is, at the end of the day, your decision. You can blame everyone in the world, come up with all of the conspiracy sites you want, but it is your fault. You can get out of it too - fairly quickly - eat ramen, and get two or three jobs. Is it easy? No. Is it fair? No. Is it life? Yes.

This whole "IT ISNT FAIR" argument (which is the core of what you argue) doesn't work in any area of life. For example, by the time I am done with my education, I will have been in some form of higher education for 10 years. If life was fair, that amount of higher education would get me a very nice salary. But life isn't fair. I know this. I know I'll be lucky to start out making $60,000 a year. If I went and got a MBA or a PhD in Economics, I'd be making a few hundred thousand a year. But life isn't fair - and I've made the decision to go into an area where my pay will suck - and I'm fine with it. It is my decision, and I take responsibility for it. You won't see me making any posts decrying the lack of fairness and how dare big business not value a interdisciplinary PhD less than a economics PhD! You won't see me making up a conspiracy about how there is a economists cabal in the job market working to deflate the value of PhDs in other areas. Do you know why? Because I do not blame others for my decisions.

No one asked for your personal financial information - you volunteered it. Stop playing the victim. You are the one making separations and trying to divide people, its "you vs. the bank," "you vs. the government," "you vs. us." No one else is. Stop it.

[edit on 27-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


Again your making the assumption that i am blaming the banks for my debt....this is incorrect. You are only accusing me because you think im sitting here in my armani suit or something saying that i dont want to pay for it. this is not the case....actually i work 55 hours a week and pay all my bills so how is that a case of not accepting personal responsiblity? That site is not a conspiracy. I just spoke with them and you enter the program (which is a collection of lawyers who eliminate your credit card debt) and pay a more reasonable amount. In my case this is tottally fair.....i owe about 10k in credit card debt and am paying them about 3500 over 18 months. There is legitimate litigation and if you dont beleive it go to FDRS.org call the number and they will explain it to you.
So there you have it...real proof of REAL lawyers fighting with the REAL law to get people out of debt. YOU LOSE! No one is blaiming them for the debt, what we are holding them accountable for is depositing an application into their accounts as if it were a check then issuing credit which constitutes as fraud. So stop accusing people of just passing the buck.....the income tax is the biggest buck to be passed at all. You are probably just bitter because you had to eat ramen and drink water or work 3 jobs becuse you couldnt find a better way to do it. Well....im using the law to fight the system....look into fractional reserve banking and the legitimate process the federal debt releif system uses to eliminate your credit card debt.
One peice of advice though....with these differences set aside, you really should be nicer to people because the only reason life is so unfair is because of people like you who dont have any empathy for anyone else's plight.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 


Dude...the central banking system is the largest cartel on the planet and they use fractional reserve banking to create money and inflate the economy ON PURPOSE!! Just look into that phrase and you will see information....forget about me then. FINE im a complainer, i blame others for my mistakes blah blah blah....just look into the info because its real. Im done with you....
By the way, good job reporting me it didnt make a difference because the admins saw all of your insults and how you were being so rude to everyone on that previous thread and then how you paid no mind to the information presented to you when you asked for it.
Get a life man and be nicer to the guy next to you.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by GUICE2
 


I thought you were done? Why do you continue?

I don't care how many hours you work, or what you do. Its your life. You signed a contract with the bank, you should fulfill your obligations. If 55 hours isn't enough, start eating ramen. Work 80 hours. Get a better job that pays more. It can be done. No, it won't be fun - no, its not fair - but life isn't fair.

Your talking about a debt consolidation agency, which will ruin your credit score. That conspiracy website is not legitimate, although I'm sure the agency is. That's fine - your basically paying less money in exchange for ruining your credit score. Debt consolidation to lenders is just about the same as declaring bankruptcy.

Heres a hint: they are paying themselves for doing this. It isn't free. YOU LOSE! Enjoy your ruined credit score. You are not using the law, enjoy your delusions though. I'd like to see you try to take the credit card companies to court, you'd be laughed out of the court so quick it'd be amusing. By the way, you apparently will be paying DIRECTLY for this service which is FREE from other agencies - yet again, you fell for it.

You really should be nicer to people. Telling people "YOU LOSE!" and making divisions doesn't really help your case. Especially when you try to play the victim and act like everyone is being "mean" to you.

Everyone should note this FDRS website is a scam debt consolidation agency. They lure people in who believe in the conspiracy theory they spun and then make them pay cash up front for their "service." What they are actually doing is disputing every item on your credit report and sending debt validation letters to creditors. You can do this yourself, and there is no chance it will work unless one of your creditors screws up. So much for helping you get out of debt - charging you for things you could do yourself, for free!

A cursory look at their BBB ratings shows an F rating for at least on branch (Hollywood, CA). The scam is simple: lure in people who want to blame their debt on the government using the conspiracy theories on the site, rev them up by using words like "revolution" and "freedom," then scam them with cash payments for performing services that the debtor could do themselves - for free - even though there is no guarantee it will work. GUICE2, you just got scammed. Call them up and ask them to be transferred to one of their lawyers and ask them what bar they are a member of. See the reaction you get. You were so desperate to buy into the lies to blame your debt on other people you just got sucked into a scam debt consolidation business.

[edit on 27-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by GUICE2
 



You can call the site legit and make all the argument that you want about it. But, the bottom line is that you've taken $10,000 that you were responsible for and weaseled it down to $3,500. Do you know why you're being allowed to pay $3,500? Because your creditors don't think you're going to pay at all and instead of getting absolutely nothing from a cheapskate such as yourself they've agreed to partial compensation. I wouldn't be too thrilled about that. Like the other poster stated. If your 55 hours per week working aren't cutting it, either get a better job or cut expenses. Hopefully you'll start with your internet connection...


It's you cheapskates that refuse to own up to your responsibilities that are ruining it all for the rest of us. Thanks



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by LightinDarkness
 



Sorry....i have to clarify because you still continue to argue this point which is null at this time.
Wrong...i have the contract in front of me which i am reading and it states the opposite from what both you and that article you posted say. Also....this only works for credit cards and not every item on your credit report and you dont pay up front, you make monthly payments for 18 months. Obviously contract law applies and if they dont do what it says in the contract then they will be held liable. Your right i can file an order to show cause and then the credit card company will have to prove that they have actually lent me their own money and since that proof doesnt exist and i have been paying high interest for over 10 years then my debt is wiped free. O and they offer a service to fix your credit report which is in the contract as well smart guy. SO now im done....for real this time. Although i will read your post but i already know what it might say.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by zephyrs
 


You too? I gotta clarify this with you as well? Im a cheapskate? HA!!!

Who are you to say? Im not living large by any means and what i do with my account doesnt affect you becase there was no money to lend so there is no debit from a pre existing account....dont you get it?!
THe federal debt relief system is not a debt consolidation service get it straight people. Man....you try and get out but they pull you back in dont they.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by GUICE2
 


Congratulations on falling for a scam. You will be sending this scam company cash - and they will take most of it and put it into their pockets, while using the rest (a small amount) of it to try to negotiate the debt. You could have done this yourself. They will then dispute the credit card trade lines as being invalid and send debt validation letters. You could have done this yourself.

Their scam worked on you. They spun their little conspiracy theory and got you excited you just called and blindly signed up for it without doing your research. Even a simple google search shows this "company" is a scam. You call the banks greedy, yet now your happily throwing money at a greedy company when you could have done the same thing yourself.

Why don't you call them and ask the name and bar for the "lawyer" working on your case? Try it. Let us know what happens. (Hint: There is none. They lied to you, and you bought it).

Oh NOW you think you can read contracts, when your previous readings of contracts got you into $10,000 in debt. LOL. You've been bamboozled with fancy legal terminology that won't work. All they are doing is debt validation - proving that you owe the bank money - and it can be done by anyone. And since you DO owe it, they WILL validate it unless you get lucky and it gets lost in the bank bureaucracy. But you could have done it on your own..for free....

They are not using show cause orders, again you have been lured by fancy legal terminology without looking up the facts. Show cause orders are not issued by the court unless the action is (1) a contempt action, (2) time is of the essence, or (3) the case involves injunctive relief. Your debt involves none of the three. I am always amazed at how easily people fall for scams when they start using fancy legal terms...


[edit on 27-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 03:30 PM
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I haven't looked at the website for the company you have working for you because they are all the same, they charge for a service you can do yourself.

Do yourself a favor Guice. Make a speadsheet of all the bills you have, all the people you owe and all of their contact information, whether its collection agencies or the original creditors. Call them all up and offer 40% of what you owe, stick to your original offer and dont let them tell you they cant do it, because they can. If the call doesnt work with the first person you talk to call back the next day, odds are you'll speak with someone else. Do this with all your creditors, get any and all settlement agreements in writing, and pay them with certified checks via certified mail. You want a paper trail in case you are ever contacted in the future about the accounts you settled. Please don't pay a company because they say they have lawyers, I work at a collection agency a lawyer, a settlement company, consumer credit counseling, and debt consolidation companies can't stop a creditor from placing a judgement on you , sueing you, or garnishing your wages.

Nobody is attacking you. Your so focused on this fractional reserve banking and how bad it is. I dont think your fully understanding how it works. We understand that you feel like a victim, and we agree that it is most likely unfair, but remember you agreed to a contract and are obligated to uphold your end of the agreement. Your argument that there was never any money there in the first place so how could you owe it just doesnt hold up. It doesnt matter how or where the bank got the money (or didnt get the $ for that matter) you owe them whatever you borrowed, plus the interest, fees, and fines you agreed to when using the card.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 03:48 PM
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Buyer beware, so as long as you sign the contract, the contract holder has the right to do what ever they want as long as they can justify it through the contract?

There is nothing right or justifiable this this concept. If the terms of the contract are found to be unfair and unjustifiable, then the contract can and should be voided. This is how the law works.

Just because some con artist gets someone to sign a contract with unreasonable terms does not mean that person must, by law, follow all the terms of the contract. All these contracts come with arbitration requirements, and you can always push the situation further and demand a jury trial.

Have any of you ever been cheated by a bank? I have, signed up on class actions law suits, won, and got a few pennies back on my dollars. Have any of you ever requested arbitration? I have, and both times the crooked banks refused to follow the contracts that they themselves had written. They then attempted to trash my credit, forcing me to write letters to eliminate the claims, unfortunately each time resulted in considerable extra work on my part for which I was never compensated.

When banks loan money to people that can not afford to pay back, then the banks also bear their share of responsibility. When you find yourself in a contract that you think has turned out to be a bad deal, you have the right to contest that contract and demand fair and reasonable terms. This is the law, and this is how things should be. Consumers have the right to demand fair exchanges.

Banks exist on charters, they are extensions of the government, given special privileges, and in exchange for these special privileges, it is only fair that these banks are expect to conduct their business in a fair and reasonable manner.

All businesses are and should be expected to condut their business in a fair and reasonable manner, and those who refuse to do such should be punished or forced out of existence, just as individuals who fail to conduct themselves in a reasonable and proper manner are punished and removed from society when necessary.



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