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To all Anti-Masons

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posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 09:49 PM
First off, what are your reasons for being against these wonderful people?
All they are trying to do is to make good men better, I see no problem in that!

(sorry if this is already here)

[edit on 23-12-2007 by Thanateros]

posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 09:56 PM
You might find this thread of mine interesting:

I do not mean to hype my own threads, but I laid out a methodological and almost exhaustive analysis of anti-mason tactics and encouraged the anti-masons on here to explain these types of things.

You will not receive an answer, or if you do it will be an answer that uses on of the tactics I covered in the above thread. The problem is that so far they cannot explain themselves without resulting to the fallacies I have outlined. The other problem is that while there are certainly obvious anti-masons on here, they all attempt to act like they are not and will disclaim that label.

I wish you luck.

posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 10:00 PM
Thank you lightinDarkness.
Thats very interesting

posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 11:48 PM
It's mainly an issue with Christians such as myself who think that the craft is only a tool used to lead you further away from our father. Then there is the question of secrecy and moral corruption. That's all.

My question is: Why would you need a secret society to make good men better? What is the underlying motive for that one?

posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 11:53 PM
reply to post by spirit7

Its not an issue with Christians such as myself because I know the craft is not a substitute for religion and cannot lead me away from God. There is no question that there is no secrecy (all the ritual is available on the internet) and there is no corruption. That's all.

My question is: Why would men choose to never gather together based on common perceptions of morality and virtue? What is so simple about charity and good will that you cannot understand?

posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 12:04 AM
reply to post by LightinDarkness

Yeah I know, I just hate the whole idea of a worshipful master while your bible is at the bottom of his throne at the same time you are stating contradictory oaths. Something about that just screams out to me mockery!

I know, these are my assumptions and I cannot present any tangible evidence but in my humble opinion that is the real reason for all of the secrecy.

One of the greatest things that Jesus ever said to his diciples was "Ye of little faith"

posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 12:30 AM
reply to post by LightinDarkness

What is Albert pike quoted for saying about the light on 3:21 and 3:24 of Morals and Dogma?

posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 12:55 AM
reply to post by spirit7

Do you realize that you are using the exact same talking points which have been refuted before? The exact same ones. But you don't actually read replies to see that evidence - do you? I will copy and paste from PREVIOUS POSTS where you have used THE SAME MATERIAL:

1) There is no throne. The title "worshipful" is honoary. Masonry comes from a time before 2007 - words change meanings as times change.

2) You are offended at the bible being used in a secular institution? Do you also get offended at the Bible being used in courtrooms?

3) What are the problems with the oaths? Whats the issue? Due you not understand symbolism?

Your opinion means nothing when you literally admit you have absolutely no evidence for anything you accuse of. I can also come up with things in my opinion of which I have absolutely no proof: you are a communist. I have no evidence, but I feel it. See?

One of the greatest things Jesus ever told us was to beware of false prophets - like you.

What are you talking about with Albert Pike? Your obviously watching some youtube video (probably anti-masonic - as usual) I obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 01:41 AM
So, you don't read Morals and Dogma? I'm just asking you to recite what Albert Pike wrote is all. Is Morals and Dogma not a good reference on Freemasonry?

Also, what is it with you calling me a false prophet? I never claimed to be speaking through God. Although, I would never count out the possibility from the almighty to do so and I would also consider it such an honor to have served him in such a way that would please him! Is it that you really don't believe or that you really just do not know?

I notice how you continue to skate around my direct questions too. But that's ok, I would not want you to have to cut out your tongue.

[edit on 24-12-2007 by spirit7]

posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 02:10 AM
reply to post by spirit7

I've read Morals and Dogma, and there is no "Page 3:21" - 3:21 sounds exact like you got your current talking points off some youtube video, with 3:21 being the stopping point of (yet another) Albert Pike quote taken out of context. If you can tell me where page 3:21 and 3:24 are, let me know.

No, Morals and Dogma is not a good reference on freemasonry. It is one reference among many, and it is a good starting point for the Scottish Rite - not the blue degrees - which is where most of your talking points are aimed at.

I call you a false prophet because you refuse to do all those things that Christians are told to do when speaking to those suspected of being a false prophet:

1 Thessalonians 5:21: "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.''

You yourself have said you offer no proof for anything you believe on masonry, its just your "opinion" based on fallacies. I have also decided finally since you have resigned any attempt to debate based on logic or reason, that I will begin using the same logical tactics you do.

I find it the height of irony that here I sit responding to your questions while you accuse me of avoiding it, while you have responded every single direct question I have ever posed to you. Oh, the irony. It says everything I need to know about your "evidence" for your viewpoint.

posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 02:25 AM
Is there a way for anybody who reads these posts to go out and buy Morals and Dogma or get it from the library to see for themselves what I am talking about when Albert Pike states that Lucifer is the light? You betchya.

It's been stated more then once in here in the past that Morals and Dogma is a good reference to freemasonry and that Albert Pike was highly regarded amongs freemasons.

Also, the blue degrees 1 - 3 are required to take several blood oaths in which it's a test from which point they are allowed to choose which rite they will take from there. The "Christians" of the craft are the most clueless of the bunch and are considered worthless tools toward it's goal.

It's funny how you tell me to step out of my own little world but I just provided you some proof of what I speak through a few questions that you still refuse to answer, but I know that you know the answer to them and that's all that matters. I'm only trying to help you Light, if you say that you are a Christian and believe in Jesus Christ like you say that you do. Just think about it man, please. I love you man (in a non-gay way of course but nothing against gays of of course)

posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 02:43 AM
reply to post by spirit7

Is there a way for anyone who reads these posts to go out and buy Morals and Dogma or get it from the library to see for themselves that Pike's book is his own opinion on masonry and the lucifer quote you keep bringing up is exactly the opposite of what you claim? You betchya.

"Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!"

Sometimes I think people, in their zealous fervor to find "evil", don't even bother to read their own talking points/reference materials. Do you doubt that lucifer bears the light, spirit7? The Bible calls him the light bearer - is that not bearing the light? Do you doubt that the light lucifer carries blinds feeble, sensual, and selfish souls who fall for it? Or do you think that Lucifer's light is good and helps people? If you do, then you are going directly against the Bible and Albert Pike.

Of course even if Pike told us all we should love Lucifer and Lucifer was the bestest ever - the preface to Morals and Dogma states that it is only the opinion of Pike and no one should take it as absolute truth on masonry. It does not speak for masonry.

Would you like me to find you some Christians who say we should worship Lucifer? I assure you they exist. Can I then use their quotes to bash you? That's my next project if you keep this up...

Read the reference material. It would help you avoid embarrassing moments like this.

I am glad that you can't express your opinion without insults. I am sure Jesus is proud. Do you have any proof that the oaths are anything but symbolic or that it is somehow a test? No? Then stop lying.

I still await your proof. What you provided was anti-mason talking points which have been beaten to death on this board. I still want to see your real proof. I'm only trying to help you from becoming a false prophet Spirit7, if you say that you are a CHristian and believe in Jesus Christ like you say you do. Just think about it man, please.

posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 03:02 AM
(buzzer) Wrong! Jesus Christ is the Light. Reread John my fellow Christian. I don't have my sword on me tonight where I am at so I can't tell you exactly where to find it but if my memory serves me right, it's sometime immediately after the feast.

Question for you. Why is it do you think that God chose the Jewish community of all places to set the example and pay for our sins?

"Read the reference material. It would help you avoid embarrassing moments like this. "

I need not be ashamed.

[edit on 24-12-2007 by spirit7]

posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 03:08 AM
reply to post by LightinDarkness

"Just think about it man, please. "

No, without any doubt. I have already told you that I am not a false prophet, I have not claimed to have God speaking though me. So cut it out already. I'm not trying to bash you. There is no reason for me to doubt the Holy scripture. There is however, plenty of reason to doubt the religion of freemasonry and I know you feel it in your gut just like I do!

posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 03:26 AM
Don't be so apprehensive though. Let's continue this after Christmas shall we? I think that we at least both can agree that we are to celebrate the birth of tiny baby Jesus. What do you say we pick this up after Christmas?

Merry Christmas L-n-D.

Hey, I just thought of something Lucifer in Darkness. Just a joke man, Merry Christmas.

posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 03:36 AM
reply to post by spirit7

You should really read before you reply. It is becoming comical.

Buzz - YOU LOSE! Again. That you haven't actually studied the Bible is unsurprising. The name Lucifer literally MEANS Light-Bearer. That is what the name actually means. Pike was commenting on how deceptive the light was, because it offered light that was intolerable and seduced the feeble, sensual, and selfish. It was a commentary about how EVIL and deceptive Lucifer is. Do you disagree that Lucifer offers false light that blinds the feeble, sensual, and selfish? Then you would be going against the New Testament, false prophet.

Aww shucks, and you were hoping for some lucifer worshipping quote? This is what happens when you don't actually read your anti-mason talking point reference material. Of course all of this assumes that Pike was not making commentary on the known historical debate about Lucifer not actually being satan, and actually being a reference to a historical King. Either way, YOU LOSE!

You are causing me to doubt whether your really a Christian or a false prophet - I am concerned about you. (just using your tactics - how do you like them?)

posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 03:45 AM
Your behavior is comical. Lucifer is another name for Satan.

posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 03:54 AM
reply to post by LightinDarkness

"Lucifer is generally considered to have been a prominent archangel in heaven, although some sources (Book of Ezekiel 28:14) say he was a cherub or a seraph; who had been motivated by pride to lead a revolution against God, in "The War of Heaven". When the rebellion failed, Lucifer was cast out of heaven, along with a third of the heavenly host, and came to reside in the world."

Just remember that Lucifer failed and that Jesus Christ is the light. That is the point that I am trying to make. I don't care about Latin teminology. And also don't by into Albert Pike for not even a minute. He's the "false prophet", not I.

[edit on 24-12-2007 by spirit7]

posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 04:09 AM
reply to post by spirit7

Lucifer MEANS light bearer. Do you not understand names have meaning? Do you not understand it says LUCIFER, MORNING STAR - LIGHT. Whats most comical about this is that Pike's commentary is completely in line with your point of view - but in your zealous hatred for masonry you have overlooked this little fact.

Exposed once again, false prophet. Your fruits have born witness that you are indeed what I thought. Unlike Albert Pike, you make your zealously claims using God's own logic.

posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 04:12 AM
None of that matters! Lucifer was once the most perfect creature that God ever created but he did not want to serve God, he wanted to be God and was cast into the stone by St. Michaels foot, so Lucifer is light no more! Jesus Christ is the way and the Light!

Do you understand now?

I will have more on Albert Pike when you and I pick up after Christmas.

Merry Christmas to you!

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