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Ron Paul Leads in AOL Straw Poll

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posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 10:30 PM
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instead of attacking the ron paul supporters why don't you people try and argue his policies or plans for getting out of Iraq? If you don't like him. ask yourself why. don't just dislike him because someone you dislike is voting for him. please, someone argue his points and quit making it about whether or not the internet nerds are voting for him..and I think its safe to say that most of the people that are voting for him aren't the big corporations and big money oil companies that don't have the best for you and me in mind. I gurantee you I wouldn't vote for anyone with the support of big donation, big corporate money (clinton, obama, guilliani). think about that for a minute

[edit on 9/16/07 by abelievingskeptic]

[edit on 9/16/07 by abelievingskeptic]




posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 10:34 PM
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Let me see if I understand. In this internet world, only Ron Paul supporters are smart enough, or rotten enough, to spam the polls? None of the "good" supporters are like we evil/smart RP people, so the polls are skewed for RP?

Well, that settles it.



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 10:47 PM
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If you read the comments under the AOL poll, more than half of them are pro-Ron Paul. And on top of that, they are all orignal. How can you explain that away with a bot? Have the spammers hacked in and edited out all the posts that support candidates other than paul?



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 11:22 PM
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All these replies, but not one person has even tried to deny or to debunk that the "spam-the-polls" technique is being used.

Interesting.



posted on Dec, 23 2007 @ 11:31 PM
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reply to post by makeitso
 


Well, you'll have to excuse me on the grounds that I barely understand how a computer works. That is when the damn thing does work instead of driving me nuts with little flags that say "error this or that" or some popup that tells me I need to spend more time stroking it's ego with maintenance. (I could grow orchids with less trouble than what System Suite 8 needs.)

The only spamming I could do is to raid the cupboard and fix you a sandwich.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 01:36 AM
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Maybe they are spamming the polls. A poll is a poll, spammed or not its just as inaccurate. You want to see support, look at money. Who is raising the money and where is it coming from. THAT is what matters.

I dont care who wins what online poll or "scientific" poll, but who is raising the real dollars and where are those dollars coming from. Who is raising the most money from the voters is the real question. We will find that out at the end of the 4th quarter.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 02:00 AM
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yeah !! those crazy internet spammers and their $18,588,717 in donations.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 02:16 AM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Ronmey owns news stations?

can I have a link?


Romney Buys Clear Channel

There you are champ. Also, if you'd like to see the stations on radio and the channels on TV that CC provides airtime to (which happens to be pretty much any important ones) please refer to this site:

Clear Channel

This is news, so why isn't it being reported??????

Sorry for this not being reported, but it just so happened that many Ron Paul supporters know it. We must be nuts to actually pay attention to what happens in our country.

Sorry to be snide, but please, this site is a better place to find news than 99% of the popular mediums.

Deny Ignorance?




[edit on 12/24/07 by SantaClaus]



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 02:56 AM
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I think as has been clearly shown in the last 2 elections, what the people want has very little to do with what happens in the end. Worse yet, the people sit back and bleat like sheep for a moment or two and then go back to watching for the latest scoop on Britney's sister preggo updates.

The only people who decide who is going to be in the White House next are those that are in there now, and the people who sit on the boards of all the defense contractors. Do you really think they care what the public thinks anymore? This isn't about 'conspiracy', they flat out laugh in the face of the people and do what they want. Do you really think Ron Paul will get anywhere near the oval office? The media will simply ignore him like they already do, and when they are forced to report on him they will simply use their 'kook angle' to ensure no-one gets too upset about it.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 03:52 AM
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I like Ron Paul and will vote for him. But I don't know much about him. I trust Alex Jones.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 05:23 AM
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Originally posted by makeitso
All these replies, but not one person has even tried to deny or to debunk that the "spam-the-polls" technique is being used.


I read through the blog you linked to and it explains why they started using anonymizers - they got bad press because of the high number of 'Ron Paul' websites linking directly to the polls - but as several posters pointed out, that's what they're there to do, drive traffic to the polls and support their candidate. There's nothing illegal, immoral, or even "unfair" about being good at doing it.

There's also only that one comment about automated software that could be used to vote multiple times, and nobody bothered responding to it. We can't control what people post here and we're about 500% better organized than that forum, so I don't think we can use that as proof of anything. And in the case of this particular AOL poll, they're using a code generator that you can't get around with software, anyway.

Is there multiple voting going on? Yes, I'm sure there is, as you pointed out you can clear the cookie and vote as many times as you want. I don't see any evidence that's it's an organized effort though.

I would be suspicious if he wasn't getting the financial support to back up his online poll results, but the fact is that Ron Paul keeps breaking records in his fundraising and is doing it with much smaller average donations than the other candidates. That can only mean he does have the numbers.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 08:36 AM
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It seems that people that support Ron Paul do so very enthusiatically. I knew a few things him and did not really care for him from what little I have heard and read, so I decided to watch him yesterday on Meet the Press.

Wow. What a package of manure this guy is. He is against big govenrment, but he was asked why he constantly earmarks projects for his own district, including a govenrment sponsered project to promote Texas shrimp. His reply is, yes I earmark these projects, but I eventually vote against them. What ???

He says the civil war should never have taken place. He says the government should have bought all the slaves and set them free. So he wants to drasticaly reduce government spending and suggests a situation where the government should have just thrown money at a situation ?

He wants to get rid of the cia and fbi, but says some of their functions should be kept. So we rename these organizations and say they are gone ??

Get rid of taxes and the irs, but replace them with 'tariffs' and 'usage fees'.

After half an hour, I knew nothing of where this guy stood on anything.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by dirtonwater
 


Good, at last, an honest anti-Ron Paul person. It is better to just say you don't understand the guy, that he's too different from what you've grown used to, than it is too call him names and argue positions you can't possibly back up.

Thank you.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by makeitso


All these replies, but not one person has even tried to deny or to debunk that the "spam-the-polls" technique is being used.

Interesting.





I'll debunk it. Read the comments. No spam generator nor ad-lib program could generate the hundreds of unique salient comments that follow polls and net storys about Ron Paul on th internet. NPR's article asking "Who are Ron Paul's supporters" generated the single largest list of comments in the history of NPR...in the THOUSANDS.

So while a poll can be spammed, I seriously doubt the hundreds of salient and intertwined conversational comments following that poll which OBVIOUSLY OUTNUMBER ANY OTHER CANDIDATES COMMENTS prove that Ron's support is real.



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 01:14 PM
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Internet polls are not counted when it comes down to the real voting. It absolutely doesn't matter who's leading anywhere else. I'm sorry folks, that's just the way it is. In fact, it doesn't even matter who's leading in the real polls! Haha!



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by dirtonwater
 


Honestly, the Meet the Press interview was a complete attack piece on Paul. If you like another candidate fine, we live in a free country. You can like whoever you want. If you truly seek the truth, research further. Paul believes his job is to put the earmarks in his people want, even if he doesn't agree with them. His job is to listen to the people. As a whole the spending bills, were not in the benefit of his people so he voted against it. Who cares about the Civil War and what could have been done or how it could have been handled? Doesn't the fact that they are questioning him about the Civil War show desperation to smear him? If you find another anti-big government candidate, please share the news. I think the rest of them have no real stances. The amount of money he has raised and how low the average donations are says alot about his support. It has to be in the double digits, at least. If you want a fair Ron Paul interview, watch his interview by Google. They were fair. If America judges a candidate based on statements regarding the Civil War, we might as well not vote. Paul's biggest strength and weakness is his honesty and willingness to answer questions. When asked about the Civil War, he should have told the reporter to pound salt. The blatant way the media is steering the election scares me. We desperately need impartial news. Later, the reporter asked a question about Paul cutting off money to Israel. Paul answered that he plans on ending giving money to all nations including Muslim nations which receive three times more than Israel gets. A fair way to approach the question would have been under what circumstances if any would you give aid to another country? You may not agree with or like Ron Paul, but you cannot deny the fact the interview was a lynching.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 03:09 AM
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Hmm.

Why is it that Ron Paul supporters are labelled as "spammers" and yet every other candidate who uses a website and works the 'net is ok?

Some folks need a reality check I think.

First off, if "spamming" is that easy howcome no one else is doing it? - this is politics after all. The whole idea is to make yourself look good

Secondly, did it ever occur that the thing might be genuine, and that the policies and personalities of the other candidates might just plainly suck to the "average American" or the usually quiet "youth of America" that the political parties over there have been trying to engage for at least the past three presidential elections?



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 04:34 AM
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reply to post by dirtonwater
 


Thank you for taking initiative to find more information about the candidates and I especially appreciate you looking further into Ron Paul.

Perhaps some clarification will help you understand Dr. Paul's responses, and give you a new perspective from which to base your opinions of him.

"He is against big govenrment, but he was asked why he constantly earmarks projects for his own district, including a govenrment sponsered project to promote Texas shrimp. His reply is, yes I earmark these projects, but I eventually vote against them. What ???"

First you have to understand the difference between Pork and Earmarks. Pork is additional funding added into legislation that increases the amount of money being spent. Earmarks do not affect the amount of money that has already been appropriated for spending, however just designates where that money will be spent. Dr. Paul represents hardworking Americans from his district that continually have the fruits of their labor taken away. By establishing earmarks for his district, he ensures that the money that was taken from his district is actually returned to these families and communities. Then Dr. Paul casts his dissenting vote of "No" on the bill to show his disapproval of the current system that takes money from families and communities and sends it to Washington just to be redistributed after who knows how much has been lost in red tape. I think Dr. Paul's analogy of the process to that of a tax credit is very helpful in understanding the overall concept.

"He says the civil war should never have taken place. He says the government should have bought all the slaves and set them free. So he wants to drasticaly reduce government spending and suggests a situation where the government should have just thrown money at a situation ?"

He was pointing out one possible alternative that could have taken place at the time - just aking the viewer to weigh the cost vs. the loss of 600,000+ American lives and 100+ years of North vs. South tension that followed and arguably still exists in certain parts of our country. The main point from the argument was the avoidance of the bloodiest war in our nation's history - Dr. Paul feels it simply wasn't worth the devastating loss of life and there were peaceful alternatives that could have been explored.

"He wants to get rid of the cia and fbi, but says some of their functions should be kept. So we rename these organizations and say they are gone ??"

Dr. Paul accurately points out that although well-intentioned, these agencies are extremely inefficient and in many cases end up violating personal rights (like FBI domestic spying) or causing more harm than good around the world (like CIA involvement in internal affairs of other nations that lead to blowback against the US). When he talks about abolishing them, he is not talking about abolishing their functions, as he has stated numerous times. However he is talking about an overhaul of the agancies that would streamline their functions and make them more efficient. Something I think we can all agree would be a great idea.

"Get rid of taxes and the irs, but replace them with 'tariffs' and 'usage fees'."

I think you are a little confused. many types of tariffs and usage fees already exist, as well as many other means of revenue generation other than the income tax. He was not talking about replacing the income tax with any new taxes, just pointing out that if we cut unnecessary spending down to a reasonable level we could eliminate the income tax and still have enough existing revenue to fund the government.

"After half an hour, I knew nothing of where this guy stood on anything. "

Hopefully I've helped clarify some of these. If you have any more questions about Dr. Paul's positions just ask here, or go to: www.RonPaul2008.com



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 04:56 AM
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reply to post by neformore
 



excellent post!!
thats what i've been trying to say for a while now.
any time you mention Ron Paul people always talk about how his supporters are spamming the polls, but no other candidates supporters are. You mean to tell me there isnt a single "internet nerd" in the hillary club able to spam the polls... riiiight. you would actually think the odds are higher that a spammer is in the "front runners" club because, after all they are higher in the polls and have more supporters.

However, when you respond with Paul having the most google searches, most youtube searches, most meetup groups, 4.3 million raised one day, 6 million on another day, Media email boxes bloated with requests for Ron Paul interviews, places invaded with Paul supporters when he was excluded from a debate, a completely supporter funded blimp, most state straw polls won hands down, etc. that stuff gets tossed aside. When was the last time you saw a hand painted Rudy banner hanging on your freeway overpass? in my opinion the support of Ron Paul is very much larger than the "scientific polls" where they call 1000 people say it is. When you have a poll with 1000 people polled and come up with paul at 5% then you have 3 dozen internet polls where tens of thousands vote and paul wins by a 30% margin things get mighty fishy.

Even though the "spammer" myth has been debunked enough times to make my skull spin, i cant help but wonder, how did only Ron Paul supporters learn how to defeat this poll technology? Did Paul send out a poll hacking pamphlet with hacking knowledge that nobody else knows?
And howcome the "hackers" arnt completly overwhelming the polls with more votes for paul than there are people in america? Surely if there were a bunch of hackers screwing with things they would inadvertantly put way to many votes for paul, wouldnt they?

i guess only time will tell how big pauls support really is during the primaries.. lets wait and see shall we?



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 04:58 AM
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reply to post by Donoso
 


"Internet polls are not counted when it comes down to the real voting. It absolutely doesn't matter who's leading anywhere else. I'm sorry folks, that's just the way it is. In fact, it doesn't even matter who's leading in the real polls! Haha!"

You are absolutely right, these internet polls don't "count" when it comes to voting, and neither do the "real" polls.

Any one can just sit at home on the computer and vote in a poll. Any one can just sit at home and get called in a phone poll. But how many will actually get out and go to the caucuses or primaries and cast the votes that do "count"?

This is why I am so optimistic and excited about Dr. Paul's chances of winning the nomination. Because when it comes to measuring voter turn-out, no other candidate's supporters show up more often than Dr. Paul's.

Check it out for yourself: www.ronpaul2008.com/straw-poll-results/

If you want a measurement of support, I think this is more accurate of predicting who will show up to cast their ballots. And with Ron Paul winning more straw polls around the nation than any other Republican candidate, and nearly as many as all the others combined, I think it's fair to say that Dr. Paul's supporters will definitely show up.

As I've seen other supporters cleverly put it: "We'll be spamming the ballot boxes come the Primaries"

---------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as the AOL poll goes, I do think the results are thought provoking, especially since AOL has claimed to make the poll "spam-proof". Obviously some others have claimed ways to get around it and vote multiple times, but it's impossible to tell what, if any, impact this has on the actual outcome.

However, the contrasting results of phone polling are thought provoking as well. Not to mention the amount of money raised from the extraordinarily large amount of individual donors, and the straw poll and rally/event success the campaign has experienced so far.

Something isn't exactly matching up. Whether his support is on one end or the other, or somewhere in between is still up in the air, although I definitely have my own suspicions on what part of the spectrum is most accurate.

One thing for sure is that in just a little more than one week from today, we'll have our first glimpse at how the nomination will play out, and what role exactly Dr. Paul will play in that.



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