My Exp. Help Me Identify these demons

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posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by inomztietuseoe
The ignorance of the close-minded is a painfully small abyss.


So your definition of an ignorant person is someone who doesn't randomly believe in mutually exclusive or even self conflicting mix of new age beliefs in combination with some religious ones?


Then how would you define someone, who doesn't want to even consider a different explanation, than what he want's to believe?

[edit on 25-12-2007 by deezee]




posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 09:09 AM
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You might want to do a search on this sight for demons. It might lead to more productive answers and you can better relate it to your own experience. Heres one thread I thought might be useful.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by NeverWalkAlone
you will be one of the unfortunate who suddenly have their hearts stop with fear when you wake up on that great day to realize that the rapture has come, and you are left behind.


Ah, the great threat of being left behind.
How many hundreds of years has that fear mongering gone on?
How many good christians are already left behind rotting graves?
How many times have your kind said the rapture is coming, and it didn't come?
How would Christ respond to your emotional outbursts and name calling?

An answer to each of those questions proves your belief false and weak and your threats empty.

You fear what does not exist, and further fear others denouncing your false teachings.

Fear is the forerunner of failure, do the world a favor and don't pass that torch.



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 09:06 PM
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This is a really interesting thread, and Legalizer, thank's for posting because it gives a lot to talk about.
Let me just say something first to bring it back to what Paige originally wanted, even though the things that are said are necessary. She originally wanted to know what demons she experienced.
Before anyone can call me on it, I will admit that I haven't had experience in the occult, but do beleive in its power. (Some could say that's why I haven't experienced it firsthand. . .) I do beleive in good and evil, I do believe in the redeeming power of Jesus, and I do agree with the mind's power to control what we see, and that we are under the power of suggestion. All power's aside, I wanted to give some background on my own beliefs so as not to be misinerpretated.
Legalizer, what you have said is very interesting. However, I won't get into a debate over whether or not those who experience paranormal's need mental help or not. I think all of us can agree on at least one thing, and that is our minds can manifest things without our knowledge. Through a third party or otherwise. I only have my own experience to go off of, and a few stories.
There is one thing I wanted to provide more information on, and that was what was said about prayer. Someone in this thread said something about there being no scientific proof to that power. I wanted to direct people to one website I found. Just keep in mind to use your own discretion with its findings. Don't blindly follow it. www.plim.org...
Anyway, enough with that.
Paige, I do believe that this may have happened to you. You have to understand the skepticism most of us have. This is a common occurance with most things not easily proven true. (As a side note, faith is called faith for a reason...)
I am a Christian, and I do beleive that Satan can use our minds to attack us, so you are right in receiving prayer and continuing your walk in Jesus. Do not stop there either, what Legalizer was saying, though harsh, is mostly true. We all have our biases, and he doesn't believe in the spiritual world because his experiences have taught him otherwise. However, with his experience he has seen the need to seek professional help in these matters. Don't take his words lightly on that. You wouldn't be "unchristianlike" if you sought help in that regard.
If you feel that "naming your demon" so to speak will help you out in this regard...and I know it seems like I'm copping out with this answer, but I assure you, I spent a lot of time seeing If I could find a demon like the ones you described, then the only thing I can suggest is what you already know. Prayer. Patience. And a well rounded and open mind to DISCERN what is before you!



posted on Dec, 25 2007 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by Legalizer
.
How many hundreds of years has that fear mongering gone on?
How many good christians are already left behind rotting graves?
How many times have your kind said the rapture is coming, and it didn't come?
How would Christ respond to your emotional outbursts and name calling?

An answer to each of those questions proves your belief false and weak and your threats empty.


1. its been more like 2007 years it has gone on
2. god takes the soul not the body
3. millions probably but the bible says no one knows the day nor the hour
4. God is a loving God and will forgive all sins

so where in any of those statements did i prove myself wrong...



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by BlindXIntersections
 


Thanks for that, not only a good post but it brings us back on topic as well. I find it hard to be as rational as you sometimes, especially when being attacked.
Cheers
John.





posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 10:40 AM
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I do believe in mental illness.
I have a mother in law who is in a mental institution right now for chronic skitsophrenia (SP?) But I also believe that in Heaven there is a physician who can reverse any sickness and heal any affliction. I also believe that while science can show the physical traits of sickness, such as the changes in a sick persons brain compared to a healthy person, they do not find the cause.
People were originally made perfect, but with sin and with the devils intervention we have become something that we were not meant to be.
This is why Jesus came as a light to the world, and so we would know that even if we are not healed in this life, in Heaven we will be made whole.

God Bless.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by deezee
 


I consider a close-minded person to fit your latter definition perfectly. I think that one should at least consider all given possibilities. I am not saying that Paige's dillema is exclusive to the paranormal, just that if that's the sole witnesses opinion, we should respect it. I amtrying to be as open-minded as possible. I just think that some of Legalizer's comments are a bit harsh.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 01:07 PM
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hi paige...burn all your stuff you used to bring them in your life.
you worked to get them in, now you have to work to get them out.
stay with god. talk to him/her with intensity!!!!

ever see a parent with several kids and theres one in
particular yelling louder than the others? the squeaky
wheel gets the grease. intense prayer is your answer.

good luck, my heart is with you.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 01:24 PM
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I can't say one way or the other.

I can tell you this though. If you are looking for true professional deliverance it generally strictly includes the following. If it does not, run, don't walk to get away from the person claiming to do so:

1. A four page descriptive form with information about the case and family, and about 40-50 yes or no questions.
2. A signed witnessed, notarized release of liability. (duplicates)
3. A copy of the drivers license or ID cards of the person(s) applying for deliverance.
4. A donation to cover expenses.

AND:
1. If the victim is hearing voices or seeing hallucinations, they must supply an evaluation from a licensed medical doctor along with a statement that there is no apparent organic cause.

2. And a recommendation from a mental health expert, recommending the spiritual procedure.

The required tests:
1. Two week Food Diary
2. Blood test.
3.A urine test.
4. A hair analysis
5. A two week exercise journal.

These need to be good quality tests that itemize amino acids and metals.

It is required from almost every exorcist, to rule out organic causes as well as the recommendations from health professionals, so don't think the guy at the corner church will even understand the issues.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by DaleGribble
1. its been more like 2007 years it has gone on

Wrong, christ didn't say non-christians would be left behind.


Originally posted by DaleGribble
2. god takes the soul not the body

Where's your proof of this? You can't say the Bible, else I can say Star Wars proves Jedi's are real. See the logical fallacy.


Originally posted by DaleGribble
3. millions probably but the bible says no one knows the day nor the hour

In other words millions have been blowing smoke out their rear ends for thousands of years.


Originally posted by DaleGribble
4. God is a loving God and will forgive all sins

In other words Christians don't take responsibility for their actions, and just leave it to an invisible character to forgive whatever they do. Thats what I mean by childlike "I do bad, but mommy and daddy still love me". Maturity at its finest.

I believe Christ would tell you to close your mouth and stop spreading false teachings.
I'm a reborn christian as well as an occultist, so I'm just as correct as any argument you can come up with because Christ speaks through me and you can't deny it, else you deny Christ by not considering that he speaks through me.

Christ would not want you to suggest people are haunted by things that don't exist.
His scientific knowledge would be much better today than it was 2000 years ago.

I don't need a savior in fear of the end times, or being accepted into heaven instead of hell. The truth is not in the bible, it is the book of man, and to preach it is exactly what christ warned about false prophets.

This is why I call you people out.


Originally posted by DaleGribble
so where in any of those statements did i prove myself wrong...

At every single point. Keep trying.

Here's info on the lack of effects of anonymous prayer, from real scientists, not check out isle magazines whose primary goal is sensationalist schlock.

The Science of Prayer

Scientific American June 19, 2006
No Prayer Prescription

Seeking to assess the effect of third-party prayer on patient outcomes, investigators found no evidence for divine intervention. They did, however, detect a possible proof for the power of negative thinking.

The three-year Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP), published in the April 4 American Heart Journal, was the largest-ever attempt to apply scientific methods to measure the influence of prayer on the well-being of another. It examined 1,800 patients undergoing heart-bypass surgery. On the eve of the operations, church groups began two weeks of praying for one set of patients. Each recipient had a praying contingent of about 70, none of whom knew the patient personally. The study found no differences in survival or complication rates compared with those who did not receive prayers. The only statistically significant blip appeared in a subgroup of patients who were prayed for and knew it. They experienced a higher rate of postsurgical heart arrhythmias (59 versus 52 percent of unaware subjects).


Prayer is a form of meditation, so naturally one would expect lower blood pressure for those who pray, or meditate. It does not prove or disprove demons or gods, it just shows the obvious fact that if you sit still for five minutes and contemplate your needs and desires instead of simply worrying over issues you have in your life, that you will have a better blood pressure.

A 2006 'empirical study' claiming to average all 17 previous studies states that it shows prayer is effective at healing. Yet the 'study' is done by a non scientist at one of the most disreputable universities in the United States, basically a "pay for worthless paper" organization. Be careful where you get your "truth".




[edit on 26-12-2007 by Legalizer]

[edit on 26-12-2007 by Legalizer]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 03:55 PM
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I got off the track for a minute there and forgot to include a couple of things. There is a specific interview that is conducted by the exorcist with the client and its from that interview that they will decide to proceed or not. For a case such as the OP they should see a medical doctor, and mental health professional for examination. Many hallucinations are the result of brain disorders that require medical help, and can be dangerous if left untreated. Quite often these are found and corrected after someone has reported seeing and interacting in such cases, so I would advise a full checkup, and freely telling the doctor all of the symptoms. describe any color or visual patterns seen as well. Sometimes some of these sorts of experiences are related to mini-stroke and need treatment as soon as possible.

As alwAys spiritual healing and products are not substitutes for professional medical care. For medical assistance see your doctor. Consult a licensed physician if you have any health problems requiring medical advise or treatment.

Spiritual healing should always be used, IN ADDITION TO, proper licensed medical care.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by Illuminis
I can't say one way or the other.

I can tell you this though. If you are looking for true professional deliverance it generally strictly includes the following. If it does not, run, don't walk to get away from the person claiming to do so:

1. A four page descriptive form with information about the case and family, and about 40-50 yes or no questions.
2. A signed witnessed, notarized release of liability. (duplicates)
3. A copy of the drivers license or ID cards of the person(s) applying for deliverance.
4. A donation to cover expenses.

AND:
1. If the victim is hearing voices or seeing hallucinations, they must supply an evaluation from a licensed medical doctor along with a statement that there is no apparent organic cause.

2. And a recommendation from a mental health expert, recommending the spiritual procedure.

The required tests:
1. Two week Food Diary
2. Blood test.
3.A urine test.
4. A hair analysis
5. A two week exercise journal.

These need to be good quality tests that itemize amino acids and metals.

It is required from almost every exorcist, to rule out organic causes as well as the recommendations from health professionals, so don't think the guy at the corner church will even understand the issues.


I must say that this post has be baffled slightly. Is this coming from a roman catholic viewpoint?

I have been involved in this ministry and as a Christian i have never come across or heard of this before. My wife is a minister who has a gifting for this ministry and she is called upon often to visit people who have or think they have a problem.
I tend to use discernment as to the nature of the problem, i don't ask for donations or anything else.
I suppose logically, you should make sure that the person who is doing the ministering is qualified, so to speak.
It just seems a bit weird to me as Jesus told us to go out and heal the sick and drive out demons. I have never come across a CRAZY, YET. who has done any harm.
Always a first time i suppose.
To do all the checks that you suggest would take up valuable time. My wife tends to tackle the problem within 48 hrs.
Interesting post though.
I have to admit that your average corner church will not be able to help but they can generally point you in the right direction
Cheers.
john.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by PaigeWinters
 


I think it could be the spirit that confronted the seven sons of Sceva.

It wants to posses you but you are not ready you will have to be prepared by others first.

You should avoid giving yourself over to these spirits they do not serve Jehovah but unless you know someone who is a discerner of spirits like myself and are ready to sacrifice yourself for good you will not be able to stop them because you have already opened yourself to them.

It's like in for a penny in for a pound it's beyond your control now you need a greater power to stop them like Raphael or a holy man.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 04:38 PM
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Its a pretty standard set of forms that people are using these days. I have seen it on a couple of websites and I think there is a PDF somewhere. Each ministry alters it a little bit to match their own needs. I doubt there is much need for an exorcist once doctors are involved. Some of these folks stay pretty busy though and in sue happy America you can't be too careful.

This one is very similar:

www.logoschristian.org...



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 07:23 PM
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Thank you all for your input. Most of you were very helpful, sorry 4 the late response (the holidays had me)

I have seen things many things in my life even before I became a witch. Some people are so quick to label others with a "mental illness" ..I'm a quiet person, so does that mean i'm autistic?? Get real.. You wanna see real mental illness, I suggest you visit a real deal pshyc hospital.. Where folks bang their heads into door jams while eating feces..Im in perfect mental health or otherwise I wouldn't be working in the field I work in. About 60% of world has experienced something supernatural so does that mean 60% of the world is crazy..Thats a bit of a stretch..Me as well as some of the people on ATS have seen things, I apologize if they're beyond your imagination and not of the worldly "bubble" some of you seem to live in

The pharmaceutical/Mental industry drains people like non believers bone dry, running to pharamacies to get a fill up for an illness that doesn't even exist. Running to the shrink to get a personal evaluation. Running to the hospital to get an EGG..It's really quite sad, Will you people be doping your kids up the second they see something?? Supressing their beautiful natural personality into some mindless drone..Wow, makes me wonder who's really the one with the "illness?"

Again, I thank all you helpful ones..Your posts were great. I also feel wonderful knowing some of you have such compassion for a stranger



posted on Dec, 28 2007 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by Kis11
 


Maybe because your a Nullzone ??????



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 02:58 AM
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this is what i think first of all those people who say go to a phyciatrist.. well they should burn in hell for not trying to understand .. maybe a small hell because it is a small coment left by the stupid people who can't seem to help others.


they were demons but you already know that. they probably attacked because of the whitch craft. your mind was open to somthing " evil" i don't think it is .. but everyone else does so i guess it is.. so your mind was also open to see demons. they weren't sent to you for a praticular reason. god WOULD NOT SEND THEM TO YOU FOR A PUNISHMENT! and THEN DEVIL WOULD NOT SEND THEM TO YOU FOR EMBRACING AND EVIL THING... lol

but maybe you were there at the wrong place at the wrongest time.

but its good .. well more than good that you turned to god. ( im on my way..) and if you keep your mind closed to " evil"and open to god, that experience will most likely never happen again.

oh, and your definatly not "mentaly ill" or anyother stupid word that our world has made up the label soomthign they don't understand because there mainly lazy and scared.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by PaigeWinters
 


Paige...... anyone who knows anything knows there is a huge difference between the supernatural and being mentaly ill. I knew a guy who claimed to be a vampire and apparently saw demons in the wall of his home. He was a SCHIZOPRENIC and not being medicated. That will bring on delusions.

Secondly...... i think you got the wrong end of the stick lady. You can't just drug up your child soon as they start seeing things as you so delicatly put it and i'm sure if you rocked up to a peadiatricians office with that story he woluld laugh yolu right out the door, there are rules and regulations regarding the consumption of these type of drugs and children and this normaly involves PROOF that there is a problem. There are many, many reasons why a child or teen has to resort to taking medication and it has very little to do with opressing their souls and what not. It more likely has to do with their welfare and health.



posted on Dec, 31 2007 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by cenasangel
 


I'm pretty sure that she was using that as an example of how outrageous some people sound in their views.





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