The Truth About Rapture

Originally posted by AshleyD
Simply telling me I'm wrong without giving any reasons why is not going to 'save my soul.'

Lets be clear, it's not my job to save YOUR soul. That is between you and GOD.

Now, the anti-christ will appear "first" and decieve the whole world. One of his "marks" is the pre-trib rapture. He will come to rapture away those who believe he is christ. Those who follow him have the mark and therefore will follow him into the lake of fire.

Read Ezk 13 closely. Understand it is teaching againt the "fly away" doctrine. It speaks of placing pillows in the outstreached arms of GOD saying you don't need to follow the commandments becuase the tribulation won't affect you. Many in the rapture movement don't worry about end-times and revelations because they say "I won't be here".

I have heard this nonsense from people I "thought" were christian. When I ask them about things leading up to arrmageddon, they really said, "I don't care, I won't be here".

Originally posted by heliosprime
Lets be clear, it's not my job to save YOUR soul. That is between you and GOD.

Great, thanks. I agree and would rather keep it between Him and myself. If you have nothing constructive to add in love then move along in peace.

reply to post by jdposey


I just made a post on my thoughts about the rapture on BTS HERE and mentioned some of the things you brought up. It's really only a thread for me to talk to myself. It gets so old constantly trying to defend the belief even when I openly admit I'm not sure my opinion is 100% correct.

reply to post by AshleyD


err, what about the rest of my stuff...................

reply to post by heliosprime


See: HERE. "Pillows" is a KJV mistranslation from the original Hebrew meaning magic amulets, charms, etc. God is warning the people through the prophet Ezekiel against false prophets.

Ezekiel was chastising the false prophets who were telling the Jews they had nothing to fear from the Babylonian captivity and their false prophecies that God would not rescue them later. Hence, the 'peace/safety' references. Ezekiel was trying to tell them they were all in a precarious position and that they had to turn away from their sin or else they would be taken into captivity. The false prophets, on the other hand, were telling the people what they wanted to hear: "Don't worry. You don't have to repent because nothing is going to happen. I'm okay. You're okay. We're all okay." Later once they were in captivity they were telling them the punishment was eternal and that God had forsaken them but Ezekiel was saying it was only temporary.

History shows they were wrong and Ezekiel was right. Soon afterwards the Jews were taken into Babylonian captivity and the prophets who were telling them not to worry were proven to be false. Ezekiel was also proven right again when the captivity ended exactly 70 years later as prophesied.

[edit on 2/23/2008 by AshleyD]

Also, although I don't remotely believe Ezekiel 13 is referring to the rapture one way or the other with approval or disgust, just for argument's sake it still seems to be talking about God saving His people from the wicked by removing the righteous:

"Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against your magic charms with which you ensnare people like birds and I will tear them from your arms. I will set free the people that you ensnare like birds. I will tear off your veils and save my people from your hands and they will no longer fall prey to your power. Then you will know that I am the Lord. Because you disheartened the righteous with your lies when I had brought them no grief and because you encouraged the wicked not to turn from their evil ways and so save their lives therefore you will no longer see false visions or practice divination. I will save my people from your hands. And then you will know that I am the Lord."

If we want to make this pertain to the rapture (which we shouldn't IMO) it seems like it would be saying:

I will set free (rapture) my people from the cages (earth/sin) you keep them in like birds. When people disappear of the earth, you will know that I am God. You dishearten the righteous with your lies that I will not save them (in the rapture) but I will.

Again, I do not believe this to be a rapture reference in the slightest bit and realize this is Ezekiel telling the false prophets that even though Israel must go into captivity, they will eventually be saved.

reply to post by AshleyD


How about this..........

9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

www.biblegateway.com...

If there are no "christians" left when the tribulation comes, where does this "multitude" come from? This mass was killed "during" the trib..........

reply to post by heliosprime


If I was a fence-sitting nonbeliever before the rapture, knew of the rapture doctrine but never paid it any attention, and finally saw millions of Christians disappear off the Earth it would probably be enough to convince me to finally accept the reality of Christ.

The Bible makes it very clear there will be massive amounts of people coming to Christ during the tribulation thanks to the two witnesses, ministering angels, and the 144,000 sealed.

Originally posted by TruthSeekers
I'm afraid of what will happen to all the good people who are misled about the Rapture. Because there will not be a Rapture and we are all going through tribulation together.

To those of you who believe such a thing in the Rapture, do not be dissapointed when it does not happen when events start taking place.

And don't panic if if it does happen Just ask God for forgivness about your previous beliefs and do not panic.

Just curious . . . how can you be certain the Harpazo has actually been cancelled? . .

reply to post by TruthSeekers


I don't believe that the rapture is not real.

I saw in a meditation where I was in Egypt, walking around and I went into this house and when I came out, all the people had gone.

I was like OMG where did they all go? Now those people = Egyptians were raptured. They went to another dimension, a more evolved place. I saw where they went. Those who did not belong to their God were left behind.

I also saw in a meditation living pictures of sections of the universe. These pictures had very little life in it. Life had been destroyed. ALL of them had suffered because of a great war, I call that the BIG BANG. All were left with very little life. Many came to Earth to replenish their own people. I think that is why everyone talks about using humans for 'breeding'. At some stage, all of the people will return to their home = rapture.

The entity that caused the BIG BANG (and wiped out 95% of life) wants to do exactly the same thing again.

In another meditation, I saw a bomb. It had a crystal in the middle. This bomb is so powerful, it would be another BIG BANG...and if that happens, those who survive will be left to start all over again.

This is the war entity.

I have my opinion on this subject and to be quite honest I'm what one might consider as 'luke warm'. The last thing I enjoy doing is arguing over beliefs, with a believer, or fellow brother in Messiah. We should also remember that All things are possible with God (Matt 19:26 & Mark 10:27)

Also:And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. (Matt 17:20) Faith is a miraculous thing. Faith can move mountains, plant trees in the ocean. So can faith rapture a believer out of here??? Why not I say. Could it also be one of the many deceptions of the enemy? Yes. So we are to question all things to see if they are from God. And how do we do that? Pray, talk with other believers, go to the Word and see if it lines up.

So here we go....READ all of Matt 13. And pay close attention to ALL His words. Especially pay close attention to verse 30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. So who is doing the gathering? The reapers. Who are the reapers? The angels. Who are they gathering? The wheat and the tares. Who do they gather FIRST????
This is a good place to begin understand the rapture theory, belief. Yahshua is not a liar and everything He says will come to pass in the correct time and correct order at the appointed time. For more understanding on reapers and harvest see (Joel 3:13 and Rev 14:15)

My neighbor experienced rupture. He was lifting his new fridge up the stairs, and crack. He hasn't been the same since. So I agree, rupture is a bad thing, but it does definitely exist.

Originally posted by rizla
My neighbor experienced rupture. He was lifting his new fridge up the stairs, and crack. He hasn't been the same since. So I agree, rupture is a bad thing, but it does definitely exist.

Pardon me. But that's really dumb and quite childish if I might say so. When people are talking about something SERIOUS, either add something serious or keep quiet. I firmly believe this is a serious issue and should be handled as such. I hope your friend is OK otherwise...

Originally posted by Elisha4Yah
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Thank you so much for mentioning this, Elisha. When I was having my doubts about the pretribulation doctrine, Wise Sheep helped me when this passage was holding me back.

He/She pointed out that it implies the wheat (Christians) are gathered and placed into the barn (Heaven via the rapture) while the tares were burned (during the tribulation and final judgment at the second coming).

What are your thoughts on this?

Originally posted by Elisha4Yah

Originally posted by rizla
My neighbor experienced rupture. He was lifting his new fridge up the stairs, and crack. He hasn't been the same since. So I agree, rupture is a bad thing, but it does definitely exist.

Pardon me. But that's really dumb and quite childish if I might say so. When people are talking about something SERIOUS, either add something serious or keep quiet. I firmly believe this is a serious issue and should be handled as such. I hope your friend is OK otherwise...

Actually this thread needed some levity, you are all talking about make believe things written by people about the times they living. This in My opinion.

Just be a good helpful person and you will be ok. Its funny to see how understanding Jesus is, but when it comes to the garbage you people are Spewing everyone burns in a lake a fire, even if your good. because why? I tell you what if God is really that spiteful and jealous and that much of an ego maniac. Then I will gladly take my spot near the lake of fire. I always wanted to live by a lake.

My God, is a reasonable, being of light who understands far more then you could ever preach. We are born with a inert sense of good and bad not an inert sense of some rapture or some one to follow. Leave it to man to make something so beautiful, so ugly and hate filled.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by Elisha4Yah
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Thank you so much for mentioning this, Elisha. When I was having my doubts about the pretribulation doctrine, Wise Sheep helped me when this passage was holding me back.

He/She pointed out that it implies the wheat (Christians) are gathered and placed into the barn (Heaven via the rapture) while the tares were burned (during the tribulation and final judgment at the second coming).

What are your thoughts on this?

Yes but we need to be careful not to misunderstand the word. Yahshua says the reapers gather the tares first. The non believers are gathered first, they are placed in bundles and burned (a Holy fire burning btw) THEN the wheat (believers are gathered in Yahshua's barn. So it seems clear enough to me who is gathered first. In other words, if I am to believe that I am to be taken out first and I'm not, I might be disapponted, but to understand the reason why that I'm not taken first, is to understand that it is an awesome blessing, because that would mean our Savior considers me worthy enough to enter straight into His barn Not that I'm saying I am worthy, just using myself as the example.

Originally posted by ShiftTrio

Originally posted by Elisha4Yah

Originally posted by rizla
My neighbor experienced rupture. He was lifting his new fridge up the stairs, and crack. He hasn't been the same since. So I agree, rupture is a bad thing, but it does definitely exist.

Pardon me. But that's really dumb and quite childish if I might say so. When people are talking about something SERIOUS, either add something serious or keep quiet. I firmly believe this is a serious issue and should be handled as such. I hope your friend is OK otherwise...

Actually this thread needed some levity, you are all talking about make believe things written by people about the times they living. This in My opinion.

Just be a good helpful person and you will be ok. Its funny to see how understanding Jesus is, but when it comes to the garbage you people are Spewing everyone burns in a lake a fire, even if your good. because why? I tell you what if God is really that spiteful and jealous and that much of an ego maniac. Then I will gladly take my spot near the lake of fire. I always wanted to live by a lake.

My God, is a reasonable, being of light who understands far more then you could ever preach. We are born with a inert sense of good and bad not an inert sense of some rapture or some one to follow. Leave it to man to make something so beautiful, so ugly and hate filled.

Spewing garbage is one thing, discussing beliefs is another and they are not in the same catagory that is a fact. I do not, for the record believe that this person or that person will burn in the lake of fire. The Scripture is clear on who has their time in the lake of fire:

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So let me ask you, for levity, are you the devil? Are you the beast or false prophet? I didn't think so

reply to post by Elisha4Yah


Thank you very much for your reply. It's always nice to get different perspective on things. In reply, what do you think of the school of thought that Jesus purposely kept the pretribulation rapture doctrine a secret until after his resurrection when He revealed it to Paul and John? In His Olivet Discourse, Jesus is most definitely without a doubt talking about a post tribulation collection of "the elect." Some believe the wheat/tares judgment is the same thing he is alluding to later and not the 'secret rapture' that Paul reveals. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks for your help in advance.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by Elisha4Yah

 

Thank you very much for your reply. It's always nice to get different perspective on things. In reply, what do you think of the school of thought that Jesus purposely kept the pretribulation rapture doctrine a secret until after his resurrection when He revealed it to Paul and John? In His Olivet Discourse, Jesus is most definitely without a doubt talking about a post tribulation collection of "the elect." Some believe the wheat/tares judgment is the same thing he is alluding to later and not the 'secret rapture' that Paul reveals. What are your thoughts on this? Thanks for your help in advance.

You're welcome! and thank you too for your thoughts and comments. I have no problem discussing ANYTHING pertaining to our Savior and our God

It is absolutely very possible, because.... as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

I don't know everything but I know this much AshleyD, by our continued and faithful belief on the Son of God, we may have to go through some tribulation, in fact Paul say's, in our lives there will be tribultaion, but we do not go through or suffer the wrath of the Lamb. So whether that means we are wisked away, or are here the entire time during the wrath, we will not feel the affects per say. I actually believe that we are witnessing some wrath today and we are still here. Yahshua also say's somewhere, "nevertheless, when I come will I find any with faith?" I often wonder why He would say that if upon His return believers won't be here. It is our faith through thick and thin upon Him our Rock, that is what delivers us into His everlasting loving arms.

Also, I am very skeptical about secret doctrine. Yahshua says He is not in the secret place (inner chamber) And He says that all eyes will see Him when He returns, even those that pierced Him (that's you and me)

I look at it this way, if He raptures me at ANY time, all I hope to be is ready. He does mention a lot or compare Himself to a thief!

AshleyD and all, I just read something so painfully truthful that it is hard for me to think for one second that I'm even worthy enough to be raptured, noone is. When we can stop time for one moment of our lives and go back to the hour when Yahshua gave His in our place, we can go through all the tribulation this world has to offer and still fall short the Glory and love that Yahweh has. Just to really focus on the truth that God gave His all in all for us, for each and everyone one of us, from the non believer to the faithful, we're all sinners and we're all related under one God, whether you deny Him completely or worship Him fully, the day is going to come when we will all see the one who gave His life so that we might live.

A very close friend of mine passed away a few years ago and boy did she love Yahshua! I miss her, but when I think about her, I think more of how truly worthy she must have been that Yahshua chose to have her before the world got to her..So to me, that's rapture if nothing else is. I'm still here, painfully waking up every morning to the same world that just get's more and more sinful and blasphemous, but she's gone to be with Him.

So here's the link I read, I hope all of you will read it, it's worth the hour or so to remind us that we are all the lowest of low and need a Holy Fire to burn the imprint of this world off of us...Goodnight, sleep tight and don't forget to say your prayers!!!

www.spurgeon.org... (awesome read guys, really)

Yes but we need to be careful not to misunderstand the word. Yahshua says the reapers gather the tares first. The non believers are gathered first,

Please also remember that the tares are not only "the non-believers".
There are many a wolf in sheeps clothing.
For He said, many will say Lord, Lord, and be cast away even though they assumed they were casting out demons and doing works in His name, He said He never knew them.
Put on the full Armor of God, and stand against the fiery darts of the enemy.
Many will be decieved, and the time will be shortened for the elects sake, less no flesh be saved.
When He returns every knee will bow, every eye will see, and "all" will be transformed in an instant.
The last will be first and the first will be last, but "all" will see His Glory.

Sorry for paraphrasing, but thats what I get.