UK:New power to seize passports?

UK:New power to seize passports?

www.timesonline.co.uk

GORDON BROWN has set himself on a collision course with the legal establishment over plans to give civil servants and government agencies the power to remove people’s passports without going through the courts.

Senior legal figures, including two former attorney-generals and a lord chief justice, have expressed deep concern about preparations to adopt new powers to confiscate passports. They warn the government not to use reform of prerogative powers as an excuse to force through a “serious” curtailment of long-standing freedoms.

They have attacked proposals in the child maintenance bill, now going through Parliament, to allow civil servants to prevent errant fathers who refuse to support their children from travelling abroad.

They warn that it could set a dangerous precedent, and say in a House of Lords report: “The freedom to travel to and from one’s country is a right of great significance and should only be curtailed after a rigorous decision process . . . ”

(visit the link for the full news article)

So now Gordon Brown wants to make it possible for British Citizens to have their passports confiscated without any kind of judicial process.
Apparently aimed at those non paying fathers...but I imagine this will soon apply to many others-like those with ASBOs,or maybe just a few points on your driving license.
Give it a year or so.

The totalitarian tiptoe continues to pick up the pace.IMO.

"“The freedom to travel to and from one’s country is a right of great significance and should only be curtailed after a rigorous decision process . . . ” "

Say the house of lords..But will that stop Browns plans?


www.timesonline.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

If he needs a year to get it done, it won't work, Labour will lose the next election and the Conservatives will win. IMO he's just trying to rush what he wants to get done before he gets thrown out of office.

Still worrying, but it won't get passed anyway.

Labour or Conservative...it doesn't matter.

I cannot think of one time where either Lab or Con have changed the laws or programmes brought in by the previous government. Although I can't put my finger on any, I seem to remember that new governments have continued old governments work and agendas.

I can see this passport removal being sped up in the outbreak of any war. And possibly drafting coming back too. You can bet almost every newly arrested person will lose their passport and be given the option to join the army or go to jail.

I expect lots of people have recently been obtaining new or extended passports due to the 2009 ideas of bio-metric passports and ID cards. To combat this surge, the UK gov. has now come up with this idea to repossess said passports.

And don't forget, Brown just the puppet of all this anyway, just as Blair is/was and any other front man for any other party.

Nexus-I hope you are right,but I am with Extralien on this one,the torys and "labour" are two parts of the same machine.

op by extralien "I expect lots of people have recently been obtaining new or extended passports due to the 2009 ideas of bio-metric passports and ID cards. To combat this surge, the UK gov. has now come up with this idea to repossess said passports."

You could be onto something there..Its like the US gov have realized people are against the ID cards-so they are just going to use their bodies (in the form of bio metric databases) as the "new" version of the ID card.

Sad state of affairs indeed.

What's the problem?

It's an old royal prerogative power, which the Queen use to have. Now, it's been giving to the government.

The EU Court will not stand for this, so it's not going to pass (trust me, it won't even make it through the commons)

So, we are all worrying about nothing.

Whether you like it or not, Britain is heading towards a one party state. It's going to happen.

(Historical fact of the day: Stalin did the same thing in the Soviet Union)

And what makes me laugh even more is that if the FBI gets its plans into operation, you wont need a passport anywhere you go...

British visitors to the US will have details of their physical characteristics added to a new billion dollar database under plans drawn up by the FBI.

Fingerprints, iris scans and even details of the way people walk, their scars and the size and shape of their ear lobes will be collected.

Will let the FBI capture images of people's irises at distances of up to 15 feet, and of faces from as far away as 200 yards, without them even knowing.

www.telegraph.co.uk...;jsessionid=UJQORR0XKCOIXQFIQMFCFFOAVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2007/12/22/wfbi122.xml

So why the sudden need to have peoples passports removed. Large chunks of Europe have just become passport free zones. You no longer need a passport to travel between various EU countries.

nine new states joining a European border-free zone.

The Schengen agreement, which allows passport-free travel across the area, now embraces 24 nations.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Are the FBIs plans going to come into effect globally sooner than any of us realised? Is the idea of having your passport removed for, what appears to be the, the smallest of crimes, a method in which to do without passports, further enslave the UK people and anyone visiting the worlds biggest prison camp?

If I was still living in the UK and wanted to get out, it wouldn't be hard without a passport. It's only 14 miles between France and UK. As long as you get the tide and current right, you should be able to row across, people have swum it before and look at all the different sized boats that were involved in the removal of the troops from France in WW2.

You're not as trapped as it would seem, but you're being given the image that you are. The majority would not even think it possible to escape the UK.
Lots of Brits tend to act tough, but when it comes to the crunch, I don't think a lot of them stand a chance.

reply to post by infinite


Well,if the EU give this the boot that would be great-but it could go the other way,and the EU may adopt the policy themselves.What is stopping them if they like the idea?

Hmm,Britain is headed for a one party state is it?
I think we are there already,and have been for some time-like I said before Labour and the tories are hand in glove.
The fact that they claim to be different and give themselves different names makes very little difference-Labour keep tory policies when they get in power and vice versa.Often these are policies that the opposition pretend to be against(until they get into power..).

I liked infinite's fact of the day.
It does well to illustrate how our government thinks of its people.

Originally posted by Extralien
So why the sudden need to have peoples passports removed. Large chunks of Europe have just become passport free zones. You no longer need a passport to travel between various EU countries.

We don't/didn't take part at the start (with France, Germany, etc) because of the IRA and I believe it's still the reason today.

Due to domestic terrorism, Britain does not take part in the Euro free passport zone.

Northern Ireland and the IRA are nothing more than a real life training experience for troops. The hardest and most stressful part of which, is, house clearance.

The UK does not want peace with the IRA, otherwise the UK would have given up northern Ireland years ago.

Eire, on the other hand, has experienced many years of peaceful progress and has quietly been going about its business rather efficiently.

The main dilemma with Eire and northern Ireland is the UK passport control issue.

You can arrive in Eire with an EU/UK passport with almost anything you like, be it a pet of large amounts of tobacco or alcohol (or anything else you care to mention that might be considered illegal).
To get this stuff into the UK, all you gotta do is drive to Northern Ireland.

The controls on this border are very basic and nothing like that which we're accustomed to in airports. So the next thing you do is go to the ferry port, jump on a ferry and get safely returned to the UK with no checks if you hold a UK passport.

I used to travel between UK and France often. The passport checks done at the UK arrivals side were laughable. It was not rare to just show the front cover of your passport at the inspector and then get cleared into the UK.

I could have had sheets of blank white paper inside my passport and a roughly similar front cover to he genuine and I could get into the UK.

Domestic terrorism is the deliberate process caused by the UK government and they do not intend to stop it.

reply to post by Extralien


There is indeed some kind of dark irony to the fact that although the government in the UK have kept the laws relating to domestic IRA terrorism,the actual IRA leaders are now the ruling politicians of Northern Ireland,and pretty much good buddies with the UK government...You can draw your own conclusions as to why that may be so,but I would bet it has to do with the fact that the IRA really did help the UK government install another layer of security laws,weather or not they were aware of it at the time.

[edit on 23-12-2007 by Silcone Synapse]

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse
but I would bet it has to do with the fact that the IRA really did help the UK government install another layer of security laws,weather or not they were aware of it at the time.

No, my father served in Northern Ireland and a family member of mine was shot and killed from the IRA. This disillusioned fact about so called "favours" is far from the truth, my family fled because of the violence.

The main dilemma with Eire and northern Ireland is the UK passport control issue.

No passport to travel to Eire, but it's soon to change due to electrionic borders being introduced to the UK (I have no idea why the government is wasthing money on that)

reply to post by infinite

Sorry to hear that Infinite,
I know many had to flee from the troubles,but they were responsible for the UK government tightening security in the UK and those laws still stand.
All I was saying was that the IRA (probably without trying to)made it possible for the UK Government to install laws that would not have been swallowed by the public,if not for the IRA terror.
And we never got rid of those laws when the IRA downed weapons.

this very alarming considering from 2009 all uk passports will be required to contain your biometrical data.

and considering thw governments catastrophic record with data privacy,i wonder how they plan to conviscate all these passports,through the post?,visit by visit,imagine the costs of that,ud need a small army of conviscators!.but they probably havnt thought of that.

ile say it again,the gnory running this country are an utter joke,they cant do anything right.there just yes men hired for their obedience and ability to lie,history will mock them all.

Originally posted by welivefortheson
this very alarming considering from 2009 all uk passports will be required to contain your biometrical data.

well, as an Irish citizens, I am entitled to an Irish passport (which does not contain biometrical data).

God bless the Irish Constitution

If this proposal is intended to contain terrorists/illegal aliens etc, then it wont make a scrap of difference , they'll simply leave the country the same way they came in, by small fishing boats anywhere along the South Coast.
We no longer have the Navy's Coastal Patrol Boats that we once had, and any idea of England having any kind of border, is quite absurd. Although the Port of Shoreham has a Coastguard boat tied up at the quayside, I have never seen it go to sea!
We all know that our Governments are up to no good, how easily they have been 'bought' and as time goes by, we are beginning to see by whom.
In sadness,
Horsegiver.

shame we cant call for a vote of no confidence and get em out off office....there as bent as a 2 bob watch and no one wants them in power yet there allowed to carry on regardless and they say we have the power yeah right watch all out civil liberties go quickly....

Having a passport issued out of the UK is a privilage and not a right. While the execution of that privilage is vested with the Government of the day, it is still the monarchy that grant the privilage to us to issue a passport.

And today, my passport can be taken away from as it remains the property of the crown. This could be done with out recource to the courts but of course I would then take the matter to a court for review, but my passport would still be removed from me.

In essence, I do not see an issue with the Government using powers to enforce judgements made in a court, and if one of those enforcements is to have the power to remove a passport from someone until they comply with a court ruling, so be it.

On the point mentioned in the OP's post that this was planned for the child maintenance bill. Good. Why should my taxes be used to pay for children when their parents will not pay maintenance. Why must there be a greater burden on the tax take because parents will not face up to their fiscal responsibilities. I would say lets use this power to enforce more court orders and give real power and teeth to our legal system and its ability to excute on judgements.

I too travel around Europe, and made a trip from the UK to Ireland only last week and had my passport explained. Taking from me and checked inside the booth both in Ireland and the UK.

Hmmm a protest seems due. With fathers for justice, now there will be attendance

LMAO I just realised - Fathers for justice who don't pay child support *newb*