'Atheistic fundamentalism' fears

'Atheistic fundamentalism' fears

news.bbc.co.uk

The Archbishop of Wales, Dr Barry Morgan, has described a rise in "fundamentalism" as one of the great problems facing the world. In his Christmas message, he said: "Any kind of fundamentalism, be it Biblical, atheistic or Islamic, is dangerous."
"[Fundamentalism] allows no room for disagreement, for doubt, for debate, for discussion."

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I clicked into this article expecting to read more vamped-up ravings about pseudo-terrorist threats, but instead I think this story holds a very relevant message. There seems to be a growing attitude of absolute intolerance in our society, and common sense has disappeared at an equal rate.
I know the article talks about religious intolerance, but this alarming attitude extends throughout our lives in these modern times. Infinite's thread, dumbing down of society, provides a good read about how rife this attitude is today. Get some internet popups and you'll suddenly find yourself with a conviction. And God-forbid if you refuse to take off your cross necklace!
I'm not religious, I don't believe in God, but I would have no moral objection to participating in a nativity play, or calling this festive season Christmas, or accompanying a friend to Mecca. I mean, why care? What does it matter?

If only we exercised some tolerance, then perhaps this world wouldn't be such a horrible place.





news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 22/12/2007 by watch_the_rocks]

Great post watch_the_rocks. I totally agree with you. I also don't believe but more about the preachings and writings then god itself. That being said, I truly believe that a huge majority of the worlds population needs to believe. Banning anyones religious event or symbolic object is wrong.

I will always respect ones beliefs as I expect mine to be respected.

Totally agree with this sentiment in your OP.

he said: "Any kind of fundamentalism, be it Biblical, atheistic or Islamic, is dangerous."

news.bbc.co.uk...

bolding mine

The title is misleading though, in that it focusses only on the atheist while the good Archbishop means ALL sorts of fundamentalism.

There is a determined effort these days to slag other religions.

I think my signature spells out my feelings best.

This happens to be a good example as to the utter ridiculousness of the zero-tolerance policy people seem to like taking into their own hands: Why i got called a TERRORIST and downed flight

This is exactly what I have said numerous times here on ATS: Extremism IN any form is the root cause of most evil.

It does not have to even be a religion. Radical environmental groups, issue Groups like Operation Rescue etc etc are all examples of extreemism.

Any kind of extremism, whether it be Christian, Muslim, atheism,occultic, Hindu or whatever is indeed dangerous.. I agree.

Completely agree.

Though not especially religious any more, I have no problem going to a Church, singing hymns, viewing religious buildings as architectural curios or museums.

I don't feel threatened by anyone's personal religion. Of course there's ample threat from fundamentalists or religion as a 'world belief', but on a personal level, no.

It seems odd for someone to be 'religiously atheistic', needing to proselytize or 'fight' religion in schools (except to the point where it should be voluntary').

The whole thing of 'faith' and 'believing' (except belief in yourself and the power of positive thinking, I s'pose) isn't that relevant to me.

If 'religion' is a myth, etc., then why be challenged by it to the point where you need to 'take a stand'. (again, besides egalitarianism).

Fundamentalist atheist seems like an oxymoron.

2 cents.



[edit on 22-12-2007 by Badge01]

Originally posted by Badge01
Fundamentalist atheist seems like an oxymoron.

Not at all.
Atheism is about someone who doesn't believe in anything. A fundamentalist atheist would be someone who is fanatical about there being no God, gods, spirits, etc, to the point of being totally intolerant of anyone who has some sort of spiritual belief. You see it all over... including on these boards.

As a side note, may people who claim to be atheist are actually agnostic. An Agnostic is someone who believes in the possibility of spiritualism, but doesn't subscribe to any particular form of it.

I, for example, am agnostic. I believe in the possibility of everything, so I can't pin myself down to just one thing. I have pagan leanings simply because, to me, neo-druidism makes more sense than any of your "standard" religions. I also find some of the practices to work well for me. This does not, however, prevent me from acknowledging that other paths could be correct.

Atheism as in atheist, as in non-believer???

I'm not at all religious in any way. Is he calling that "extremism"?? I'm confused to say the least.

EDIT:

He said it led to situations such as councils calling Christmas "Winterval", schools refusing to put on nativity plays and crosses removed from chapels.

Oh!! He is talking about our crazy, POLITICALLY CORRECT society being intolerant. I agree. In the UKs bid to be "multi-cultural" it is doing a fine job of offending the natives.

I don't see what religion of extremism has to do with it. I guess he just wanted to be famous.

The archbishop said "atheistic fundamentalism" was a new phenomenon.

Yep - he just invented that himself, at a time when belief in Christianity is at an all-time low in the UK (apparently).

Merry Christmas anyway (even though I'm a non-believer)!

[edit on 23-12-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

Any time you have a "absolute" you are going to run into problems, even math knows there are not absolutes, just a best guess......

Happy Chrismahannakwanzika and pleasant New year!!!! * not to Offend ANYONE

Nice article but I also think that the tittle is no really matching the link but rather more of a personal touch.

Yes I am one also that will fight any type of fundamentalism and extremist, no society should have to be faced with only one type of believe because a moral, or other majority feels that their believe has the right to be over others.

While in American we have constitutional rights over our way of worship and as a diverse society we have been able to work over indiscrimination to a point, is still a danger of fundamentalism that has been in the rising for quite sometime.

We all have a duty be American orother nationality to make sure that fundamentalism do no gain enough power to affect us all.

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit

He said it led to situations such as councils calling Christmas "Winterval", schools refusing to put on nativity plays and crosses removed from chapels.

This is really a myth, and so is the rubbish about atheists wanting to 'ban' Xmas. Polly Toynbee had a great article in the grauniad the other day on this issue.

I had at least five calls from broadcasters this year inviting me to say it would be a jolly good thing if Christmas were rebranded Winterval. That myth began years ago when Birmingham city council tried to spread the festive season across the long winter - though it never replaced Christmas, which came with official celebrations in the middle of it. But the Winterval myth lives on. This year it was joined by this: "God rest ye merry people all, Let nothing go to waste, So let us all this Decemberval, Recycle now with haste." Although written by a vicar for Warrington's Christmas recycling campaign, watch Decemberval enter anti-Christmas demonology.

linky

Also, no such thing as an 'atheist fundamentalist', there are no real fundamentals to be held. If you want to say 'extemist' or 'militant', maybe. But, again, there are very few atheists who would want to ban religion or restrict personal faith.

I'm sure many who use these words would suggest that Dawkins is one of these dudes. Not at all. If your religion can't handle criticism without having to label people who do this criticising 'militant', then your religion deserves to become extinct. It is not Dawkins shooting doctors, crashing planes into buildings, etc.

But there are people who would like you to believe this. I think this faith-meister is just another wanting to foster the martyrdom complex of some christians. Yeah, atheists really want to throw xians to the lions, heh. Tempting, though, if it would stop this yearly whinge.

[edit on 23-12-2007 by melatonin]

the power of religion is to control an aspect of a person's life...fundimentalism take that power to it's highest form...the problem is control...that vehicle takes many forms...religious, corporate, govenmental,family, community,capital. people have always tried to link or associate with others who are of a like philosiphy...thus forming groups that speak with generally one voice. that's where the "control" problem develops. leadership roles are a natural human instinct and invaribly there are people who take on the responsiblity to speak for the "group". these leaders, in time, generally begin to consider themselve superior and thus more deserving of the groups resourses. this has been the way it is for thousands of years, however in our more complex times, it has become a hindrence to civility and the creation of a more just society. what this means is that "religion" must change, with the "power" and " control" it once had; to a more enlightened, reasoned, and civil state.

This place gets more ridiculous by the day. The theists are just ticked because people are finally recognizing organized religion for what it is - a con job.

I'm an atheist. I don't care about nativity scenes or "In God We Trust" on the money or any of that other crap. Just don't try to recruit me. You leave me alone, I leave you alone, everybody happy.

Live and let live.

Originally posted by melatonin


This is really a myth, and so is the rubbish about atheists wanting to 'ban' Xmas. Polly Toynbee had a great article in the grauniad the other day on this issue.


Also, no such thing as an 'atheist fundamentalist', there are no real fundamentals to be held. If you want to say 'extemist' or 'militant', maybe. But, again, there are very few atheists who would want to ban religion or restrict personal faith.

I'm sure many who use these words would suggest that Dawkins is one of these dudes. Not at all. If your religion can't handle criticism without having to label people who do this criticising 'militant', then your religion deserves to become extinct. It is not Dawkins shooting doctors, crashing planes into buildings, etc.

But there are people who would like you to believe this. I think this faith-meister is just another wanting to foster the martyrdom complex of some christians. Yeah, atheists really want to throw xians to the lions, heh. Tempting, though, if it would stop this yearly whinge.

[edit on 23-12-2007 by melatonin]

I love this thread and by your own post the stereotype you display regarding your analogy about shooting planes killing doctors etc is where it gets delicate. As you know we are having to make accomodations for the sensitivities of muslims for this reason so we don't offend those that are not extremists or christians who are not fundamentalists. I am a believer and I get as ticked off by some of the church agenda too. I see them saying some things that make me cringe. Some even act so crazy they embarrass me. As far as your comments about Dawkins I couldn't disagree more. Just go to ABC news forum and see the posts regarding his speeches. He has a cult like following, groupies, fans whatever you want to call them. They are Hostile and they are angry and they have a plan. Dawkins is too smart to make an agenda like that public but whether he ever does or not Atheism HAS an agenda and that is un deniable. I get Dawkins new letters myself and have read all his books.

How you can say Atheists don't want to ban xmas is as argumentative as are the many posts in that very thread called "Take christ out of christmas" I don't know what is is named exactly but it's words to that effect. Fundamentalist, extremists, militant, makes no difference, a rose is a rose by any other name. We just all know that anyone that has a agenda that endangers our right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a threat .

- Con
"Happy Chrismahannakwanzika" by THEDIGIRATI!! That is funnnny!!

As far as I know, there is only one fundamental of atheism, and that is a disbelief in God. Seems to me that ‘fundamentalism’ here is being used in the pejorative sense of extreme or violent, according to the connotation the word has been given over the last couple of decades. IMO, atheism is a belief system, rather than a lack of belief as some like to present it, and is as subject to every vagary of human behavior as any other.

Originally posted by 123143
This place gets more ridiculous by the day. The theists are just ticked because people are finally recognizing organized religion for what it is - a con job.

I'm an atheist. I don't care about nativity scenes or "In God We Trust" on the money or any of that other crap. Just don't try to recruit me. You leave me alone, I leave you alone, everybody happy.

Live and let live.

The theists are just ticked because people are finally recognizing organized religion for what it is - a con job.

This is exactly my point. Invariably I have to have my sensibilities questioned by none other then an atheist with an attitude. You see thats the kind of posts I see all over this place. People who live in a country where its very constitution has the word "Creator" and its currency has the words "in GOD we trust" who lable these things silly, or ignorant, some even claiming to be "offended" by it as if they were black and we had a noose on the coins. It simply isn't necessary to make derogatory aspersions about people or voice opinions they are all con artists and victims of a con job. If you can't see that as "asking for an argument" then don't ask them to understand your request not to be recruited.

I have yet to see a Christian get angry because someone slammed a door in ther face when they came knocking. Believe me I have done it to many myself. It's the intolerance that the threads creator is bringing to the forefront and that ambiguety between the tolerance and sensibilities of what is reasonably justifiably inappropriate (hanging a noose) and that which is nothing more then splitting hairs using the excuse someones feelings get hurt as a frivolous law suit because an atheist saw a cross in a candidates christmas commercial suing them to take it off the air.

It gets really ridiculous because it is so hard to imagine it could really be about someones sensibilities and not about anything other then someones bent about a Chrsitian god they cannot tolerate the mere sight of anything that remotely reminds them of.

It's your last sentence that is the most powerful most simple and as fathoms deep as it should be appreciated down to the core of our multicultural beliefs. "Live and Let Live" it IS really THAT simple.



[edit on 23-12-2007 by Conspiriology]

reply to post by Conspiriology

Way to make a mountain out of a molehill. You types never change. Hysteria rules the day.

Originally posted by 123143
reply to post by Conspiriology

 

Way to make a mountain out of a molehill. You types never change. Hysteria rules the day.

Sorry you think it's just a mole hill ,, us "types" aren't hysterical nor do we rule the day with any. It's just an ordinary day on the forums at ATS is all I see. No biggie

Take care

[edit on 23-12-2007 by Conspiriology]