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Armageddon – What Will You Do?

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posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 05:26 AM
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I dont believe in the Rapture as presented, or in the classical way, because in my opinion it is written in the Bible a bit differently.

People mistake the 1st Resurrection as the Rapture, IMO. And they mistake the 2nd Resurrection as immediately after the Armageddon battle, both of which are not necessarily true according to interpretation of the text.

You will leave out the 1,000 year reign inbetween .. somewhere .. in there?
And the 144,000 in the 1st Resurrection, all being male and "Jewish" ? But is that actually just symbolism for the 12 Tribes meaning .. all of the nations will offer up a portion of the 1st Resurrection? I dont know? What is the proper interpretation? Well .. thats simple, your interpretation.

Hey its just what the book says..

But if I was "left behind" (a fear tool for evangelicals) ..

I'd devote my life to Christ even harder and I'd follow every little tiny detail I may have missed or skipped before, and hope to be Martyred quick? I dont know.

[edit on 12/26/2007 by runetang]




posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 12:12 PM
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And since Christians are the supposed "spiritual" Israelites or "Jews" in that Old Testament, "chosen people of God" kinda way (this is just what I've heard to tie Christians to the 1st Resurrection and turn it into a "Rapture" event). Here we have 144,000 to be "Raptured". But, if every single one of them was an adult Christian, and children were not counted (automatic ascension), then 144,000 from the entire WORLD sounds more believable, albiet still hella strict.

But for some reason, one theme throughout the Bible is that when they speak of days they mean years .. and when they say years they can mean decades, centuries or millenniums, just like hours can be days etc. So one could be hopelessly positive and claim your interpretation to be that the 144,000 is actually 1.44 million, 14.4 million, 144 million, etc. This is by using the "change the measurement of time given by the author into whatever measurement you'd like, no matter how much longer or shorter the measurements have become due to this change in interpretation" rule (ie: how many days should you fast, what was the color of Jesus' eyes and hair, was he really in the wilderness for 40 days and nights exactly, other peculiar yet important types of things).

So really we dont know how many, from where, or anything. IF it even happened, and the Bible BARELY barely supports the idea whatsoever

[edit on 12/26/2007 by runetang]



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 12:13 PM
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Without a good heart and acceptance of Christ as Lord and Savior, many will be subject to the coming judgment and wrath and a scenario very much like I have described in this original post. The purpose of the post was to encourage thought and also to warn. The following is a warning of judgment to come:

Either you will accept or reject this Truth that has been ministered to you. Since everyone should come to understand that actions result in consequences, I also deliver the following warning. If you decide to refuse the truth, then you will know what is ahead--even if you reject that also, at this time. Later on, you will see these words come to life. If you accept the Truth now but are later tempted to cultivate negativity within your heart, then the warning we share might help to prevent that from happening.

YAHWEH'S BITTER-SWEET WARNING TO ALL PEOPLE OF THE EARTH

He that exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life. He that disobeys the Son will not see life. The Wrath of God remains upon him.

“The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.” John 3:36

Once you have been given the Message of Truth, if you do not obey it you are exercising your Free Will choice. However, it will result in eternal death at the Judgment. Just as Satan and his angels cannot have free reign in creation - neither will it be permitted of those that exercise that choice. Your fate is upon your own head.

“Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of everyone's blood, for I did not shrink back from declaring to you the whole plan of God.” Acts 20:26-27

The above scripture reveals we will be clean from the blood of those who make the wrong choice. If you are so cultivated with negativity that you hear and know that what we speak is Truth and you continue to sin willfully by rejecting that Truth, then you will lose the Sacrificial Hope of Salvation. Time will eventually run out. Armageddon is the final Judgment Chapter.

“For if we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins” Hebrews 10:26

"to proclaim the year of the LORD's favor, and the day of our God's vengeance..." Isaiah 61:2

"The tumult reaches to the ends of the earth because the LORD brings a case against the nations. He enters into judgment with all flesh. As for the wicked, He hands them over to the sword [This is] the LORD's declaration." Jeremiah 25:31

"I tell you that on the day of judgment people will have to account for every careless word they speak." Matthew 12:36

"When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you will surely die,' and you do not speak out to dissuade him from his ways, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood." Ezekiel 33:8



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron
 




"I tell you that on the day of judgment people will have to account for every careless word they speak." Matthew 12:36


I do not deny Christ as savior, I do not deny that Judgment will occur, in fact I know it will with every bit of my being. But Christ is all loving, and in my opinion the harvest will include other devout Monotheists who acknowledge Jesus existed, acknowledge his divinity as a prophet, and live excellent, holy lives as free of sin as possible, who's works of their own hands have been all good. Even if that Monotheist was never exposed to the Word, never having the chance due to their location, being isolated, being denied, or really just living in a part of the World that the Word has yet to have the chance to reach in its' entirety. Are these people who live there at fault for this, or are the Messengers of Jesus at fault for not having saturated every inch of the Earth in the Word by now? I do not know if anyone is to blame.

I do know that Jesus, and God for that matter, will not punish a man for eternity who is devout, pious, lives good, does good, and believes in the one God, just because he did not know Jesus, or know him to the level of more privileged people in more privileged societies. It says in the Bible about Judgment, "Each man shall be judged by the works of his hands". Being upright and without deliberate sin is to be walking in the path of Jesus even if the person walking the path isn't aware of that, IMO.

The Rapture, if you look at Revelation, is not in there as is popularly described. The 1st Resurrection is in there, which is the 144,000, evenly divided among each tribe of Israel, so by 12. My opinion is that this is indeed symbolism, that it will be more than 144,000, perhaps 1.44 million, 14.4 million, etc. And the "tribes of Israel" and the even distribution amongst them symbolizes that the chosen will be from every nation, and be spiritual descendants of the ancient Israelites of the Old Testament. If I am not mistaken, I believe Revelation states that those in the 1st Resurrection will be with Christ during Armageddon? In other words, they'd be his "army" or part of it? So here, even those in the 1st Resurrection are present in spiritual form, with their Christ, like a flock with their Shepard, to smite the evildoers.

The 2nd Resurrection occurs after the 1,000 year reign on Earth of Christ as King of the World and the complete eradication of evil (Think Utopian). It says Satan will be let loose yet again at this time, and this is when all are Judged and some are thrown into the lake of fire with Satan and/or the Beast.



posted on Dec, 26 2007 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by runetang
I do not deny Christ as savior, I do not deny that Judgment will occur, in fact I know it will with every bit of my being. But Christ is all loving, and in my opinion the harvest will include other devout Monotheists who acknowledge Jesus existed, acknowledge his divinity as a prophet, and live excellent, holy lives as free of sin as possible, who's works of their own hands have been all good.


I do not judge. I've only been asked to inform and warn so I cannot comment at all on who I believe will be included in the Rapture.
All I know is that it's based on two things: A Good Heart AND Acceptance of Christ.

Father is a fair and righteous judge as well as a patient and loving Father - that's why the judging is left up to Him as we have absolutely no way of knowing the condition of another person's heart.

Your understanding of the Rapture differs from what's been shared with me. If you're interested in learning more and gaining a better understanding of what will come, feel free to visit any of the websites listed in my profile or sign up for the free newsletters our Ministry puts out on a weekly basis via email and lulu.com.

Thank you for your thoughts and the time taken to share them with us. May Father bless you and guide you. Amen.



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 06:11 AM
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Originally posted by runetang
People mistake the 1st Resurrection as the Rapture, IMO. And they mistake the 2nd Resurrection as immediately after the Armageddon battle, both of which are not necessarily true according to interpretation of the text.


I prefer to call the rapture as catching up in heaven. The 1st Resurrection involves the resurrection of the condemned and the saved. The condemned will be judged by the fiery judgment of God. The resurrected saved Christians will be caught up in heaven.

Hebrew 9:27

And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment

Daniel 12:2

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.


..

The true Christian who are left alive, will be caught up as well. They will all, the resurrected saved and the left alive saved, will be transformed into a non-corruptible eternal glorified body, which can no longer sin and can do longer die. A transition between flesh to pure energy as what I like to describe it. All this will take place at the beginning of the 7th trumpet and 7th Plague which is the last trumpet call.

1 Corinthians 15

51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-- 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

..

The judgment will also take place on the 7th Trumpet and on the 7th Plague which is the GREAT TRIBULATION. Earth will literally be like hell as I have described previously. There will be a complete extinction event of the whole universe. Nothing can survive this. You need to be transformed into a non matter substance. Thats why I think the transformation during the catching up is needed, so you'll be very much impervious.

2 Peter 3

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up


...

However, God shortened this for the sake of the 144,000 ethnic Israelites. They were spared because of His promise. However, the beast and his armies at Armageddon, and his worshipers are still alive. Jesus, the King of kings will now lead with His glorified saints which is His heavenly armies to slaughter the armies and the followers of the beast. No one will be spared as I have previously stated.

After this, the 1,000 year reign. At the end of this, satan will be released to deceive the nation once more. All comes to failure for God burned them up and the devil thrown into the lake of fire.

The 2nd resurrection will only take place on the great white throne judgment.

Rev 20

12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.


...


And the 144,000 in the 1st Resurrection, all being male and "Jewish" ? But is that actually just symbolism for the 12 Tribes meaning .. all of the nations will offer up a portion of the 1st Resurrection? I dont know? What is the proper interpretation? Well .. thats simple, your interpretation.


The 144,000 Ethnic Jews will also consist of expectant Mothers. Among them will be the blind and the lame. God will gather them from the four corners of the Earth. From the countries where He had driven them, from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea, from the four winds, from the four quarters of the Earth (North, South, East, West).

Isaiah 11

11 In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea.12 He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth.

Revelation 7

1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3"Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God."

Revelation 7

4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

...continued

[edit on 27-12-2007 by amitheone]



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 06:27 AM
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Jeremiah 31

7 This is what the LORD says:
"Sing with joy for Jacob;
shout for the foremost of the nations.
Make your praises heard, and say,
'O LORD, save your people,
the remnant of Israel.'

8 See, I will bring them from the land of the north
and gather them from the ends of the earth.
Among them will be the blind and the lame,
expectant mothers and women in labor;
a great throng will return.

9 They will come with weeping;
they will pray as I bring them back.
I will lead them beside streams of water
on a level path where they will not stumble,
because I am Israel's father,
and Ephraim is my firstborn son.

10 "Hear the word of the LORD, O nations;
proclaim it in distant coastlands:
'He who scattered Israel will gather them
and will watch over his flock like a shepherd.'

Romans 11

5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.

Romans 9

27Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:"Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved.

Isaiah 10

21 A remnant will return, a remnant of Jacob will return to the Mighty God.


--

The 144,000 Ethnic Jews, the house of Jacob are the remnants who was chosen by grace. God gathered them from the four corners of the Earth, from the four quarters of the Earth, from the ends of the Earth, all of these means the same, worded only differently.

Note the sentence of the verse above, "they will come with weeping" and these verse confirms it well:

Revelation 1:7 (RSV)

Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, every one who pierced him; and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

Matthew 24 (KJV)

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


--

Weeping, wail, and mourn all means the same, only worded differently. All these verses are all interconnected. Reading Revelation alone cannot be understood well if you don't include the prophecies of the old testament.

The Bible interprets itself. Works flawlessly.

Kindly also note the catching up:

Isaiah 11

11 In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people ...


As noted, the Lord has reached out his hand a second time to reclaim the 144,000 Jews. Who went ahead the first time? Indeed, the true Christians who were already caught up in heaven.


[edit on 27-12-2007 by amitheone]



posted on Dec, 27 2007 @ 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by runetang

I do not deny Christ as savior, I do not deny that Judgment will occur, in fact I know it will with every bit of my being. But Christ is all loving, and in my opinion the harvest will include other devout Monotheists who acknowledge Jesus existed, acknowledge his divinity as a prophet, and live excellent, holy lives as free of sin as possible, who's works of their own hands have been all good.


I agree with you that the harvest will include not only other devout Monotheists, but atheist, Muslims, Buddhist, Hindus, Taoist, and etc. as well. At the end of it all during the judgment day of the Great Tribulation, they will finally see who God really is, and they will be much convinced that they have been deceived all their lives and the only way to be saved is to cry out to Jesus to save them. It is no longer a matter of believing or not, because God will personally appear for everyone to see.

Joel 2:32 -

And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the Lord has said, among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

Acts 2:21

And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.


Rev 7

9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"


--

These are the ones who came out of the Great Tribulation, those non-Christians who finally called out the name of the Lord. But, they will only be saved when the 144,000 Jews will finally cry out the name of the Lord to save them.

Matthew 24:22

If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

Isaiah 56

8 The Sovereign Lord declares-- he who gathers the exiles of Israel: "I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered."


--

After God has gathered the 144,000 Jews, the exiles of Israel, God will still gather others to them.

If at this moment, if one still don't believe that there is a God or still believe in other gods, or still very ignorant after God has appeared, then there will be no more excuse but be part of the condemned, those who has the mark of the beast and worship his image.

2 Thessalonians 2

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


--

So, the sequence of the harvest follows:

1. True Christians - caught up and transformed who will rule with Christ

2. 144K House of Jacob - gathered, still in the flesh, will populate the millennium

3. Non-Christians - gathered, still in the flesh, will populate the millennium



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