You can't take Christ out of Christmas

Christianity should copyright Christmas! That was a joke.

I feel that X-Mas has become more that just a Christian tradition, now, it is beyond religion. So asking for more "religion" in X-Mas celebration would be to go back to the roots, which is very unlikely since we got all kind of people celebrating X-Mas which have nothing to do with Christianity.

I am not a Christian, but I like X-Mas and I think it is a wonderful event. I don't really care about Christ or Jesus on X-Mas. All I can do is say thanks for this nice event.

lol everyone who supported the Christians is wrong. Why? CHRISTMAS IS A PAGAN HOLIDAY. It evolved from the roman holiday saturnine, which occurred in the winter, people would exchange gifts and get wasted (sound familiar) it was actually outlawed by the protestant church till the 1800s. Jesus was not born in the winter, if he existed, he was born in the summer. The scripture says so. The Shepard's would not have been out in their fields in the winter. Plus Jesus isn't white he's middle-eastern or black.

Originally posted by OhZone
I have to wonder why Christians insist on celebrating the birthday of their "god" on the millenia old Pagan day for celebrating the Winter Solstice - the rebirth of the Sun.

With the proliferation of info these days it would seem that they would have become a bit embarrased over the matter, and moved their "birthday" to a more appropriate time according the writings in their Bible.

milennia = 1000 years
No offense but Christianity/Christmas came way before that

[edit on 12/26/2007 by xxxALIVE]

Originally posted by xxxALIVE

Originally posted by OhZone
I have to wonder why Christians insist on celebrating the birthday of their "god" on the millenia old Pagan day for celebrating the Winter Solstice - the rebirth of the Sun.

With the proliferation of info these days it would seem that they would have become a bit embarrased over the matter, and moved their "birthday" to a more appropriate time according the writings in their Bible.

milennia = 100 years
No offense but Christianity/Christmas came way before that

A millennium is 1000 years! A CENTURY is 100 years and the romans came WAY b4 Christianity its called History and History tells us the roman empire was founded as late as 500BC, BC means Before Christ just in case you didn't know that

[edit on 26-12-2007 by Damien_Hell]

Originally posted by Damien_Hell

Originally posted by xxxALIVE

Originally posted by OhZone
I have to wonder why Christians insist on celebrating the birthday of their "god" on the millenia old Pagan day for celebrating the Winter Solstice - the rebirth of the Sun.

With the proliferation of info these days it would seem that they would have become a bit embarrased over the matter, and moved their "birthday" to a more appropriate time according the writings in their Bible.

oops i forgot a zero xD


milennia = 100 years
No offense but Christianity/Christmas came way before that

A millennium is 1000 years! A CENTURY is 100 years and the romans came WAY b4 Christianity its called History and History tells us the roman empire was founded as late as 500BC, BC means Before Christ just in case you didn't know that

[edit on 26-12-2007 by Damien_Hell]

Seems silly, but I thought this celebration was about peace on earth and good will towards men, no matter what your faith or lack of it. Regardless, it hasn't stopped the bickering or the line ups to purchase piles of crap on credit cards that no one needs!

We're just not ready for any kind of awakening, as we are too consumed by semantics and pagentry to get to the real issues. We can't even get the intent of this simple holiday right! Humanity is a sorry lot indeed!

reply to post by Brawk


Thats the NEW meaning of Christmas though. COMMERCIALISM! One of the most important things in western society

Originally posted by Creedo
reply to post by forestlady

 

My thoughts exactly....

December isnt even Christs birth month. Ever feel like Solstice is being trampled over? Maybe Christmas needs to become more historicly accurate and change dates.

...yes that was sarchasm wraped in truth.

Does it really matter what I want to call Christmas, or when I want to celebrate Christmas with my family? Since we are spread out all over the place, it's nice to be able to have one set time "frame" to celebrate the birth of our Lord Jesus, whether it be in December or November or October or September or August or July or June or May or April or March or February or even January. What the real issue here is, is that people that are easily offended, mostly the politically correct atheists, gets their panies in a bunch everytime someone speaks up about their own personal beliefs and they (the politically correct atheists) need to put them down for it, cause it brings out the true greed in human nature and they thrive off that.

I will celebrate CHRISTMAS with my family when it's best for us to do so, which unfortunately since it's so commercial these days, happens to fall in December, near the end of the year. So take your stones and go throw them elsewhere.

Oh and By the way, Creedo, where is Your Proof that Christ wasn't born in December?

It's sad that people push ugliness upon people.

[edit on 26-12-2007 by WalkOn]

Some things to consider about Christmas and the TRUE meaning for you lost souls:

If you want to give Christ a present in remembrance of HIS birth here is HIS wish list. Choose something from it:

1. Instead of writing protest letters objecting to the way My birthday is being celebrated, write letters of love and hope to soldiers away from home. They are terribly afraid and lonely this time of year. I know, they tell me all the time.

2. Visit someone in a nursing home. You don’t have to know them personally. They just need to know that someone cares about them.

3. Instead of writing George complaining about the wording on the cards his staff sent out this year, why don’t you write and tell him that you’ll be praying for him and his family this year. Then follow up. It will be nice hearing from you again.

4. Instead of giving your children a lot of gifts you can’t afford and they don’t need, spend time with them. Tell them the story of my birth, and why I came to live with you down here. Hold them in your arms and remind them that I love them.

5. Pick someone that has hurt you in the past and forgive him or her.

6. Did you know that someone in your town will attempt to take their own life this season because they feel so alone and hopeless? Since you don’t know who that person is, try giving everyone you meet a warm smile; it could make the difference.

7. Instead of nit picking about what the retailer in your town calls the holiday, be patient with the people who work there. Give them a warm smile and a kind word. Even if they aren’t allowed to wish you a “Merry Christmas” that doesn’t keep you from wishing them one. Then stop shopping there on Sunday. If the store didn’t make so much money on that day they’d close and let their employees spend the day at home with their families.

8. If you really want to make a difference, support a missionary– especially one who takes my love and Good News to those who have never heard my name.

9. Here’s a good one. There are individuals and whole families in your town who not only will have no “Christmas” tree, but neither will they have any presents to give or receive. If you don’t know them, buy some food and a few gifts and give them to the Salvation Army or some other charity which believes in me and they will make the delivery for you.

[edit on 26-12-2007 by WalkOn]

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
lol everyone who supported the Christians is wrong. Why? CHRISTMAS IS A PAGAN HOLIDAY. It evolved from the roman holiday saturnine, which occurred in the winter, people would exchange gifts and get wasted (sound familiar) it was actually outlawed by the protestant church till the 1800s. Jesus was not born in the winter, if he existed, he was born in the summer. The scripture says so. The Shepard's would not have been out in their fields in the winter. Plus Jesus isn't white he's middle-eastern or black.

I can tend to my fields in the winter time in Jerusalem. Winter over here is not like the winter in a 4 season area. But again, refer to my above post, it doesn't matter when I want to celebrate Christmas, it just so happens to fall at the end of the year, thanks to the Governments and Churches around the globe, mostly due to commercialization.

Ummmm....I hate to be the party-pooper here but somebody needs to point this out.


Christmas is over.


How about if we all take a little break and pick this up again next year.

Originally posted by Lightmare
Ummmm....I hate to be the party-pooper here but somebody needs to point this out.


Christmas is over.


How about if we all take a little break and pick this up again next year.

So move on to the next topic Lightmare, no need to be a "party-pooper" since you hate being it so much, why do you still do it? There's no law here that states that since a certain holiday or event or anything is over that we still can't talk about it.

Besides this IS a discussion about, "when" Christmas really is... Maybe it's "Really" Tomorrow?

[edit on 26-12-2007 by WalkOn]

Originally posted by Lightmare
Ummmm....I hate to be the party-pooper here but somebody needs to point this out.


Christmas is over.


How about if we all take a little break and pick this up again next year.

Your right, its still the 26th right? Lets talk about boxing day! Why are the banks still closed? I want to buy an Xbox 360 with my Christmas money and I can't because its in Check form :'(

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
It evolved from the roman holiday saturnine, which occurred in the winter, people would exchange gifts and get wasted (sound familiar) it was actually outlawed by the protestant church till the 1800s. Jesus was not born in the winter, if he existed, he was born in the summer. The scripture says so. The Shepard's would not have been out in their fields in the winter. Plus Jesus isn't white he's middle-eastern or black.

lol everyone who supported the Christians is wrong. Why? CHRISTMAS IS A PAGAN HOLIDAY.

says you, and you are wrong. Whatever it had been in the past or whatever someone else did that Christmas copied ie; Trees, what day it is on etc, is totally irrelevent for that was then, this is now. people insisting that because this was a pagan this or solstice that as rationale to invalidate what it means to Christians or to portray them as hipocrites or anyother reason the pagan thing keeps coming up is again irrelevent. No body cares what day pagan day is or was or that Christmas is celebrated in a similar fashion. Just because you say it is a "Pagan" holiday, doesn't make it so. If it used to be that some time in the past or in some other place,, SO WHAT. It isn't that now and it isn't that here.

Pagan traditions: used to cut boughs of evergreen trees in December, move them into the home or temple, and decorate them. This was to recognize the winter solstice -- the time of the year that had the shortest daylight hours, and longest night of the year which occurs every year between DEC-20 to 23. The ancient Romans decorated their "trees with bits of metal and ornate images of their God Bacchus the God of fertility. In Northern Europe, the ancient Germanic put candles on evergreen tree branches, in honor of their god Woden. None of them had anything to do with the other and the only thing they all had in common made neither of them the same in representation or meaning.

Christmas Trees have become accepted by Christians and by people of other faiths, and those who do not follow an organized religion a popular late-December tradition and part of our present-day culture. You will see them every year just as you will fireworks on the fourth of july.

Who did it before and what they did it for has no bearing on Christianity or Christmas. Where it got its beginings or that "pagans" used to do this or that ,, SO WHAT. The only thing they have in common now is that both pagans and Christians like trees with little lights on them. You can try and force any "Meaning" they have on Christians and Christmas till your blue in the face and you'll see them every year in Dec symbolic of the same thing it means every year, that being Christmas is coming.

whether that offends you or not, whether you are a Christian or not and whether you like it or not.

Get used to it.



[edit on 26-12-2007 by Conspiriology]

No body cares what day pagan day is or was or that Christmas is celebrated in a similar fashion. Just because you say it is a "Pagan" holiday, doesn't make it so. If it used to be that some time in the past or in some other place,, SO WHAT. It isn't that now and it isn't that here.

-----------------------------------------------

ummmm, ya.....only one problem, there's people still celebrating this pagan holiday, or at least trying to....I think they care. and the symbolism relating to the evergreen tree is the same no matter what area or culture you are talking about, the evergreen tree is one of the few trees still "alive" in the winter...this is why it is chosen. in the middle of the long cold winter, when not much of anything is grown, when all living things everywhere are huddled around their fires, trying to stay warm, the evergreen will stay green, stay alive, as a reminder that the warmth will return and the whole earth will turn green again. the crops will again be planted and grown, the harvest will again come, and well, then it will return to the long winter slumber.

so, tell me, what does the evergreen symbolize in the christian religion??
just wondering, cause, I fail to see any relevant symbolism there.

Originally posted by dawnstar
-----------------------------------------------

ummmm, ya.....only one problem, there's people still celebrating this pagan holiday, or at least trying to....

who is stopping them? Seems to me if they are so similar then it wouldn't ruffle anyones feathers. Even if it did,, that would be there problem.

the evergreen will stay green, stay alive, as a reminder that the warmth will return and the whole earth will turn green again. the crops will again be planted and grown, the harvest will again come,

thats the meaning they placed on it, how that reminds them of those things I have no idea unless someone saw an evergreen in the dead of winter and said "WoW look that tree is green! That must mean summer will come again! That we will plant crops and they will grow!. "

I don't see that written in stone anywhere but hey,, if that's what some want to think it means, fine.

I really don't think anyone believed winter would stay forever

Other trees are alive in winter, just dormant so it's really a misnomer

I think they care. and the symbolism relating to the evergreen tree is the same no matter what area or culture you are talking about

Apparently not, the green however is one of Christmas colors and I could draw some association with its defeating death with Christ if I had to. It certainly is no worse an analogy as a symbolic metaphor then original one.

so, tell me, what does the evergreen symbolize in the christian religion??

Christmas!

- Con

[edit on 27-12-2007 by Conspiriology]

Originally posted by Damien_Hell
if he existed, he was born in the summer. The scripture says so. The Shepard's would not have been out in their fields in the winter. Plus Jesus isn't white he's middle-eastern or black.

I have no idea what "racial" or any other physical attributes he would have. He could have been what ever "if he existed" Their is certainly no "genetic reasons" for any reason he HAD to be black anymore then ther would be to disqualify him as being white according to scripture.

I assume he was like the bible describes hair was like wool bronze skin. That can just as easily describe anyone who was in the sun a lot too. I don't think it makes a difference what he looked like regardless.


- Con

Originally posted by forestlady




Why should only Christians get to display their symbols?

Apparently we don't.

We display some other holidays symbols or some pagan symbols. So we're damned if we do damned if we don't.

Since many people of many beliefs celebrate Christmas, I can't see how Christians should bear the brunt of the suggestion that it is ONLY THEY that get to. The only impetus I see going on in this thread has been reasons that Christians should, change what day it is on, quit using trees the way someone else did. That they should quit "Hogging" it for themselves or words to that effect.

when you're in a religious minority that is constantly assaulted by mainstream and fundamentalist Christianity, it gets pretty old and you just want to be treated equally.

Gays want that, woman want that, Blacks want that, Atheists want that, the Poor want that, the handicap want that, which "group do you belong to if not mentioned please make us aware and just why should something as rooted in our current culture as Christmas is with all its alleged faults and wrong dates, wrong this and wrong that, have to be blamed for how you have been unfairly treated?

What or how are they "assaulting" you?

You know, it's purely academic that LIFE, Isn't fair. It never will be and for some people, it's worse then for others. Of all the things we can do to make it better there will be somone else whose feelings will be trampled on. I'm sorry there are so many people in this country that happen to be Christian, hot or cold and I'm sorry that they have a majority Vote many times or that they find ways to influence the political spectrum, but expecting them to see it your way regarding Christmas is an exercise in terminal futility at best.

The only thing you can change is you and your attitude about what it is that can't change. In the words of Leo Buscaglia ,," What is, IS. "

That's all there is to it.

- Con









[edit on 27-12-2007 by Conspiriology]

reply to post by Conspiriology


No, that's not all there is to it. There is much more to it than that. What group do I belong to? I am Pagan. This whole thread started as a response to my thread "Wiccan Yule Wreath Vandalized".
I was referring to displays of Christmas on government property. The Pagan wreath was vandalized and the City Council kept the Nativity scene, while denying the Pagans the right to put up another wreath. No matter how you wish to twist the logic, it is simply unfair. Period. Why should one religion be allowed to display their symbols on govt property, but another religion is not allowed to. I'm not blaming Christmas, I'm blaming SOME Christians who cry "victim" if another religion wants to display its symbols.

Originally posted by forestlady
reply to post by Conspiriology

 

There is much more to it than that. What group do I belong to? I am Pagan. This whole thread started as a response to my thread "Wiccan Yule Wreath Vandalized".
I was referring to displays of Christmas on government property. . . Period. Why should one religion be allowed to display their symbols on govt property, but another religion is not allowed to. I'm not blaming Christmas, I'm blaming SOME Christians who cry "victim" if another religion wants to display its symbols.

No, that's not all there is to it.

Well apparently it IS and you said so yourself.

The Pagan wreath was vandalized and the City Council kept the Nativity scene, while denying the Pagans the right to put up another wreath

whether they denied one pagan or all three of them, it sounds like your problem is with the city council and not any Christians per se. For someone who would use separation of church and state as an argument to keep Christian symbols off Public sites it's interesting that same rationale didn't stop the pagans from placing their own there. I'm sorry they had gotten vandalized.

No matter how you wish to twist the logic, it is simply unfair

There really is no logic to twist and as I said in my post, LIFE IS UNFAIR

- Con