You can't take Christ out of Christmas

reply to post by HIFIGUY


Give me a break.
Where did I attack Jesus?

I made a bold faced attack on the subversion of Christmas by corporate interests to promote it as a pure money making engine.

Although I am not Christian, I have nothing but respect for the man Jesus who would become "Christ" to so many.
I do believe he would not have been at all pleased to know about some of the things done in his name by the church that Paul made.

As a side note, was it not Jesus who said "Thou can'st worship both God and Money"? (I prolly blew the quote, going from memory). Christmas drives the retail industry. If there is a celebration dedicated to Mammon, this is it.

So yes, I'll openly speak out against the travesty that Christmas has become, just as your Christ spoke out against the money lenders in the temple.

Wait a sec... this is your Christ we're talking about... shouldn't you be the one doing the speaking out?

[edit on 23-12-2007 by BitRaiser]

I think this thread has lost its point, there are a few issues here, one political, this PC crap is going over board. I agree we should let everyone celebrate the holiday they choose and choose the represent it anyway they choose. Do not mix them up, this only further hurts the issue,
There are several holidays this time of year, feel free to celebrate them anyways you choose. But do not ask me to take down a cross , or a christmas tree and act like we are doing something wrong by wanting these things. I think the saem argument goes to the Jews I think they have done a great job celebrating their holiday with out criss crossing things and in turn everyone has learned about it. Wiccans, Pagans, Muslims, Shintos all do something this time of year. Let them display it proud where they want to. I'd love to learn more. But do not act like we need to curb our holiday to please others. that is PC gone to far. and in all honesty does not help anyone understand anything any better. It just puts us more at odds and makes other who do things different feel the need to defend and attack the christ in christmas. Be happy with your holiday and let everyone else be happy with theirs.

This country was founded on Christian believes though and the American Christmas was based on Jesus. Does that mean we do not learn or show our support for other holidays? no. But lets be honest what.

As of 2001 76.5% of the USA population was christian. So lets make it a democratic process, lets vote on it?

Just stop your whining and lets us celebrate our holiday and keep our fuzzy memories of when we were kids, in my house and about 76 percent of all Americans houses christ had something to do with it.

Rant over lol

Merry Christmas everyone!

Well I'm a Christian and no matter what day Christ was born on, Dec 25th Christmas Day is our holiday too and we have the right to celebrate it the way that we want to, whether we use a decorated tree or not we are still celebrating the birth of Christ our Lord and Saviour. The majority of the people in the United States, the country that I love is Christians whether you like it or not.

Do you have a right to worship who you want to and believe what you want to believe? Yes you do and that is what is so great about this country! When God created us did he create us to be just like him? No, he gave us the gift of free will so that we can choose to love him or not to and that is what's so great about God!

Merry Christmas everybody!

Peace

here's the thing. the claims being made are that "happy holidays" "season's greeting's" and "xmas" are taking the christ out of christmas. this is patently absurd, and just another attempt by the religious right to stir up trouble and grab some nice party identification from citizens before primaries.

these phrases are CHRISTIAN in their origins and usage. the idea that they are even close to "pc" versions of merry christmas is just silly:

HAPPY HOLIDAYS: It is not clear exactly when this phrase became popular, however, the song "Happy Holidays" was written by Irving Berlin and performed by Bing Crosby in 1942. This was not a time when Americans were giving much if any respect to the beliefs of others. Even the word "holiday" bears its roots in Christianity, from the Middle English word "holidai" meaning "holy day". The meaning of the phrase is a generalized greeting, wishing people well for Thanksgiving, Christmas, and the New Year.

SEASON'S GREETINGS: In the late 19th century, Christmas greeting cards started bearing "Greetings of the Season" and "the Season's Greetings". By 1920, it was shortened to simply "Season's Greetings". If 1942 was lacking in tolerance, in 1920 tolerance wasn't even an idea as far as other religious groups. In 1955 President Dwight Eisenhower, who's contribution was pivotal in adding the words "under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance and in making "In God We Trust" his country's motto, sent out Christmas cards that said Season's Greetings.

XMAS: This is the phrase most maligned by these groups, for literally "crossing Jesus out of Christmas". But this is not a new phrase, in fact, the word Xmas was widely used in church publications as an abbreviation for Christmas as early as the 15th century. You see, back then typesetting had to be done by hand, and it was very difficult and time consuming, so abbreviations were common. The letter "x" substituting the word "Christ" is far older, from the Greek letters for Christ, which were also used to create the ever-popular chi-rho monogram. The x in Xmas is not an x, but the Greek letter chi. As far as political correctness in the middle ages, it was definitely nonexistent.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
reply to post by HIFIGUY

 

Give me a break.
Where did I attack Jesus?

I made a bold faced attack on the subversion of Christmas by corporate interests to promote it as a pure money making engine.

Although I am not Christian, I have nothing but respect for the man Jesus who would become "Christ" to so many.

My apology. I think its possible that I was getting thread tunnel vision.
I got upset by the various spellings of Christmas in its variances that you made, but what I didnt understand was that you were bashing the commercialsim soley, rather then the entire event.

Yes, you are right. A man cannot have two masters. He cannot worship both God and money.

In many ways, if Jesus was upset at the money changers, I could only imagine how he might respond at what he sees with Christmas.

Again my apology

Peace

reply to post by HIFIGUY


No worries.

I do like to imagine, from time to time, what Jesus' reaction would be to some of the things done in his name.

There's no commandment about freaking out and punching people in the face, is there?

My family consists of Atheists. Every single member of my family works in fields of physics or biology. We still celebrate Christmas because it's a great opportunity to get the family together. I think the fact we're Hungarians helps out a'tad though, seeing as how "Christmas" isn't exactly what we call it back home. We actually have 2 different days, one strictly for Mikolas (Santa Claus) where gifts consist of small things. Then we have a holiday on December 24th which is more in tune with what Christians in the U.S call Christmas.

I personally say happy holidays because there's an insanely large amount of different holidays that are held in December. In Europe, from country to country it varies greatly and they can be completely different events. Mikolas, for example, has absolutely nothing to do with religion. There are a lot more in the same respect.

Folks need to relax about this, it's truly nonsense.

I think that atheists that celebrate xmas are somewhat lying to themselves about many things. No offence or anything, but if you don't believe in a god, why do you need to get together with family and be all happy? what's the point of getting together? some of you say you don't believe that jesus was real and that we are celebrating his birth, I say..you are confused. this is part of history. I suggest those atheists rent the movie, the nativity..as a historical reference..nothing religious about it. And then tell me if you still don't believe that christianity is the right belief.

OK I am going to make this extremely simple for a lot of you to understand....Christmas is a christian holiday...One day out of 365 (give or take) that WE can celebrate the birth of OUR LORD....Yes there are many many many decorations put up in/on houses and public places denoting that fact...There is absolutely nothing stoping you from decorating your house, lawn or any other place to celebrate YOUR holiday, now is there? I for one am all for allowing only christian children out of school for this holiday...As for all the other religions that comprise this great country, when one of your holidays comes around only the children of your faith should be allowed out of school to celebrate. That way there is no bias toward one religion or another....As for the atheists....lol your kids are just SOL......Oh and one more thing..I don't want to see any of you non-Christians in a Walmart..Target..K-Mart...or any other store that is giving discounts and great holiday prices....You want to gripe and complain about MY holiday but you want the great deals that go along with it...FOR SHAME!!!!!!! So the next time I see anyone that is bashing MY holiday, while taking advantage of its great prices I'm gonna shove a yule log right up their @%#....LOL Merry Christmas from my home to yours.

[edit on 24-12-2007 by Combatmed1]

Originally posted by Combatmed1
So the next time I see anyone that is bashing MY holiday, I am gonna shove a yule log right up their @%#....LOL Merry Christmas from my home to yours.

merry xmas friend. I hope no one pisses you off and god bless you!

reply to post by Combatmed1

.....and the many other xtians that somehow feel their holiday is being attacked.

NOONE IS ATTACKING YOUR HOLIDAY

noone is complaining about your holiday, and if they are, they should shut up.

the people who started all of this complaining and drama were christian extremists. and it was all started in regards to words MADE BY CHRISTIANS FOR CHRISTIAN HOLIDAYS

see my above post

so, a group of christians make up some phrases a long time ago for their own holidays, and then many years later another group of christians feels threatened by this and starts with accusations of persecution and hateful speech. makes sense to keep a thread going for 7 pages.

anyone who doesn't believe in jesus, maybe if we just stop talking about this, as it really has little to do with us, they will just go away. or be unreasonable to each other.

Originally posted by Combatmed1
OK I am going to make this extremely simple for a lot of you to understand....Christmas is a christian holiday...One day out of 365 (give or take) that WE can celebrate the birth of OUR LORD....Yes there are many many many decorations put up in/on houses and public places denoting that fact...There is absolutely nothing stoping you from decorating your house, lawn or any other place to celebrate YOUR holiday, now is there? I for one am all for allowing only christian children out of school for this holiday...As for all the other religions that comprise this great country, when one of your holidays comes around only the children of your faith should be allowed out of school to celebrate. That way there is no bias toward one religion or another....As for the atheists....lol your kids are just SOL......Oh and one more thing..I don't want to see any of you non-Christians in a Walmart..Target..K-Mart...or any other store that is giving discounts and great holiday prices....You want to gripe and complain about MY holiday but you want the great deals that go along with it...FOR SHAME!!!!!!! So the next time I see anyone that is bashing MY holiday, while taking advantage of its great prices I'm gonna shove a yule log right up their @%#....LOL Merry Christmas from my home to yours.

[edit on 24-12-2007 by Combatmed1]

i wish i was a totalitarian dictator, i would make you work all 24 hours of chirstmas day.

Originally posted by jedimiller
I think that atheists that celebrate xmas are somewhat lying to themselves about many things. No offence or anything, but if you don't believe in a god, why do you need to get together with family and be all happy? what's the point of getting together? some of you say you don't believe that jesus was real and that we are celebrating his birth, I say..you are confused. this is part of history. I suggest those atheists rent the movie, the nativity..as a historical reference..nothing religious about it. And then tell me if you still don't believe that christianity is the right belief.

I call my self a non-believer, atheist sound too much like a religion to me. Well I like to see my family because not all of them live in the same state, so when they come to town for Christmas I like to see them because I love my family and want to see them as much as I can and that makes me happy. And we like to have a good meal together and talk and get caught up on what going on in each others lives and just to enjoy their company.
If you can't understand that then I don't know what to tell ya. Even if I were a Christian and people who weren’t were celebrating Christmas and it made them happy to be around their loved ones, so what.

Originally posted by Combatmed1
OK I am going to make this extremely simple for a lot of you to understand....Christmas is a christian holiday...One day out of 365 (give or take) that WE can celebrate the birth of OUR LORD....Yes there are many many many decorations put up in/on houses and public places denoting that fact...There is absolutely nothing stoping you from decorating your house, lawn or any other place to celebrate YOUR holiday, now is there? I for one am all for allowing only christian children out of school for this holiday...As for all the other religions that comprise this great country, when one of your holidays comes around only the children of your faith should be allowed out of school to celebrate. That way there is no bias toward one religion or another....As for the atheists....lol your kids are just SOL......Oh and one more thing..I don't want to see any of you non-Christians in a Walmart..Target..K-Mart...or any other store that is giving discounts and great holiday prices....You want to gripe and complain about MY holiday but you want the great deals that go along with it...FOR SHAME!!!!!!! So the next time I see anyone that is bashing MY holiday, while taking advantage of its great prices I'm gonna shove a yule log right up their @%#....LOL Merry Christmas from my home to yours.

[edit on 24-12-2007 by Combatmed1]

Wow I am astonished that people have actually FAILED to see the SCARCASM in my post......What kind of person would read this dribble and actually think it is serious!?!?!?!?! But alas I must digress.......

the point in getting all together dear, is that the military bases pretty much shut down this time of year....my son is practically given this nice vacation and sent home!! both my husband and me are given these nice long (although mine is not exactly all paid for) vacations this time of year.....and hey, ya know what, not even my druid friend refused to accept his nice christmas bonus! even the kids have days off.....so why not celebrate??

but on a more serious note, I do believe that studies have found that the celebrations around the equinoxes helps keep our biological clocks more in tune with mother nature. which, well, would mean that the only ones celebrating christmas who shouldn't be would be the ones in the southern hemispere....they should be setting up maypoles or whatever is involved with their summer solstice...

I fail to see why people can't just be and let be...if MY COMMINITY decides to put whatever up in their common areas....and I am a lone resenter....do I really have the right to tell the entire community that they can't do as they like?

as far as taking Christ out of christmas.....I think a pretty good job has been done throughout this thread....whatever your holiday celebrations consist of this time of year....I wish you a wonderful holiday season, full of joy and peace....

Originally posted by UScitizen
Even if I were a Christian and people who weren’t were celebrating Christmas and it made them happy to be around their loved ones, so what.

but how can you not believe in god then? all of that love and gathering with your family has to do with god. you being happy for getting together with them is proof of god.

why would it make you happy to see you loved ones if there was no god? because you see..love is god.

Good morning everyone! It's now Dec. 24th - Christmas Eve

More (proof?) that we are slowly diluting the 'Christ' out of Christmas; all for the sake of political correctiveness and fairness to all:

Rhoda Boyd said she had a "bit of an issue" when she found out the words "Christmas Day" would be replaced by "a festive day" in the chorus of the 1951 Christmas song by Ray Evans and Jay Livingston. Other references to Christmas in the song were to be similarly replaced with more generic words.

"They're changing something that's traditional. It's something that a lot of people in this country identify with," said Boyd, whose daughter is in the school's second and third grade choir. "And it begs the question: why has it been changed?"

Controversy of Traditional song: 'Silver Bells'

I don't think it will stop with just this song, or the mere act of taking Nativity Scenes off the public properties; so as to not offend others.

Christian traditional festivities and worship are being put up on the chopping block.

Video Link

Forgive me when I say this; as I don't mean offense to anyone (merely making a point):

What would happen if we start to tinker around with other Jewish songs? Or others for the matter? I don't think those people would take to highly to that now...would they? All for the sake of political politeness.

Once the offended mainstream has had their 'hay day', on one religion, I'm willing to bet it won't stop there.

Who will be the next target after that? Think about it.

Respectfully,

~Ducky~





[edit on 24-12-2007 by TheDuckster]

I think as soon as somebody has an 'agenda' regarding this debate they are on the wrong side regardless of what the agenda is.

For most people regardless of religion, Christmas is about tradition and child hood memories. All people should be able to celebrate it in their own way, no restrictions.

reply to post by jedimiller


There's absolutely no relationship between morals, family traditions, feelings, or pretty much anything when it comes to believing in some sort of religious "god". Please, don't kid yourself. This thread is about political correctness and how some people can get out of hand with it.

Also, don't try to put your religion above anyone else's belief or lack thereof. I find that quite hilarious and if you feel like you need to prove your faith is the right one to everyone but yourself or your private surroundings, you must be a'tad insecure. No offense but your history on these boards have been muddled with all sorts of goofy (and) trollish exercises so it's hard to tell if you're being serious or not.

Originally posted by Donoso
There's absolutely no relationship between morals, family traditions, feelings, or pretty much anything when it comes to believing in some sort of religious "god".

I respectfully disagree. Family traditions have a lot to do with the religion! In islam, the woman is considered unclean after giving birth to a baby and is kept separate for a period of time. A husband is allowed up to four wives. A woman is considered as half of a witness in court. In pagan Rome, homosexuality was a norm. So I really fail to see your point.