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Any Advice? Fiancee and I are not doing so well

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posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999
ONe more thing..DeadAngel..dont ever let a woman like this ..shake your confidence...they can recognize this too. Back to that leading thing again.
Otherwise..you are just a lost puppy..looking for approval from her. Trying out for approval like trying out for a baseball team. YOu know..tryouts. Trying to make the cut. Without knowing it you can be trying out for scraps off the table for which you are working to set up with food.


What you don't seem to understand, orangetom, is that this goes both ways.

Men (the smart ones, anyway) screen women just as women screen men. We men have qualities that we watch for in women - and there are also things that annoy and exasperate the hell out of us that will cause us to reject a woman.

After all, what man in his right mind wants to end up having a child with the wrong woman and be stuck paying for it for 18 years? Especially in this day and age with the economy being the way it is?

For me, it's women who resort to constant dramatics and challenges, as opposed to simply spending some quality time with me curled up on the couch watching a movie. Know what I mean? Women who insist on making everything a giant Dare, women who insist on showing off in front of other people constantly, women who pit me against other men constantly - EEK! BYE! Don't need it....

I can't wait to find another woman who just loves spending quality time with me at home! Aaaahhh.... good times. Erin, if you're out there, I miss you terribly




posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 08:54 PM
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What you don't seem to understand, orangetom, is that this goes both ways.


Oh I do understand that which I quote of you above Mr Dstrbr. No problem with this. It is just that women try out in a different social fabric or framework than do men. Also for different reasons or motives.


Men (the smart ones, anyway) screen women just as women screen men. We men have qualities that we watch for in women - and there are also things that annoy and exasperate the hell out of us that will cause us to reject a woman.

After all, what man in his right mind wants to end up having a child with the wrong woman and be stuck paying for it for 18 years? Especially in this day and age with the economy being the way it is?


LOL LOL LOL...what do the statistics indicate..also so many of the posts here on BTS?? Out in the world too??IT tells me that not that many men do a very good job of screening or they dont know much about female socialization value systems. This is why you often see me refering to men and many males as dumb. They have a difficult time thinking things through outside of ESPN and Hooters.


For me, it's women who resort to constant dramatics and challenges, as opposed to simply spending some quality time with me curled up on the couch watching a movie. Know what I mean? Women who insist on making everything a giant Dare, women who insist on showing off in front of other people constantly, women who pit me against other men constantly - EEK! BYE! Don't need it....


I know precisely to what you refer here. This is that to which I refer as Peace...not just Piece. I know so many women who are qualified only for Piece..never Peace. As a matter of fact I know some women who would rather give you Piece than make the commitments necessary for Peace. To much work and commitment for them to give you Peace. They would rather only give you the "appearance " of Peace....ie..DRAMA!!!!

Lord...I hate drama queens...male and female. I work with some male drama queens. Sickening. THey cannot seem to focus for very long. They also need alot of perks to get a job done.

Well ..you get the picture and yes..I know precisely to what you are refering. Thanks.

Orangetom



posted on Dec, 21 2007 @ 11:35 PM
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MajorMalfunction's quote,



If your marriage date is 6 months away, NOW is the time for some couples counseling. You'll either learn to deal with each other or learn in the nick of time that you don't belong together and save a lot of time, energy and money on a wedding and then a divorce


I totally agree with MM. Nuff said.



posted on Dec, 22 2007 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by orangetom1999

What you don't seem to understand, orangetom, is that this goes both ways.


Oh I do understand that which I quote of you above Mr Dstrbr. No problem with this. It is just that women try out in a different social fabric or framework than do men. Also for different reasons or motives.


Check your U2Us orangetom, something private related to this to discuss with you....


[edit on 22-12-2007 by MrdDstrbr]



posted on Dec, 24 2007 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by deadangel23
 



There have been ceaseless studies on what breaks a relationship, it is called the four horsemen. Every divorce studied was found to containe one of these elements. Most couples who are successful and happy do the opposite for each other.

The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse


Although many of us believe that anger is the root cause of unhappy relationships, Gottman notes that it is not conflict itself that is the problem, but how we handle it. Venting anger constructively can actually do wonders to clear the air and get a relationship back in balance. However, conflict does become a problem when it is characterized by the presence of what Gottman calls the “Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse:” criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling.

1. Criticism. Criticism involves attacking your partner’s personality or character, rather than focusing on the specific behavior that bothers you. It is healthy to air disagreements, but not to attack your spouse’s personality or character in the process. This is the difference between saying, “I’m upset that you didn’t take out the trash” and saying, “I can’t believe you didn’t take out the trash. You’re just so irresponsible.” In general, women are more likely to pull this horseman into conflict.

2. Contempt. Contempt is one step up from criticism and involves tearing down or being insulting toward your partner. Contempt is an open sign of disrespect. Examples of contempt include: putting down your spouse, rolling your eyes or sneering, or tearing down the other person with so-called “humor.”

3. Defensiveness. Adopting a defensive stance in the middle of conflict may be a natural response, but does not help the relationship. When a person is defensive, he or she often experiences a great deal of tension and has difficulty tuning into what is being said. Denying responsibility, making excuses, or meeting one complaint with another are all examples of defensiveness.

4. Stonewalling. People who stonewall simply refuse to respond. Occasional stonewalling can be healthy, but as a typical way of interacting, stonewalling during conflict can be destructive to the marriage. When you stonewall on a regular basis, you are pulling yourself out of the marriage, rather than working out your problems. Men tend to engage in stonewalling much more often than women do.

All couples will engage in these types of behaviors at some point in their marriage, but when the four horsemen take permanent residence, the relationship has a high likelihood of failing. In fact, Gottman’s research reveals that the chronic presence of these four factors in a relationship can be used to predict, with over 80% accuracy, which couples will eventually divorce. When attempts to repair the damage done by these horsemen are met with repeated rejection, Gottman says there is over a 90% chance the relationship will end in divorce.

www.1stholistic.com...


While yes, the communication is key. How you communicate it also key.

Identify some of the things you may be doing. and take measures to avoid them or counteract them. Keep escalation from happening.

My Husband and I have implemented some of these measures. I have learned to get rid of the contempt, it has made a phenomenol difference in our relationship.

This is the best time of any to work through this. Because this won't be the first stress or the worst that your relationship will face. Instead of seeing it as a make or break situation, see it as a practice session.

I wish you the best of luck. and feel free to u2u me. I will help in any way I can.

Now this is just a summary of the four horsemen. They go into much greater detail and depth. I really suggest you research the issue. The man who coined the four horsemen of marriage,Gottman, is a favorite of mine. He wrote"How to Raise emotionally intelligent children" which I feel every adult should be required to read before having children. HINT HINT




The man knows his stuff.

For example, when I held contempt, it wasn't just eye rolling that cause trouble. I kept a to do list. If he didn't keep up with what I did, I was angry for having to take care of everything. Of being the compitent one. I felt taken advantage of.I was so contemptuous because I did most of the cleaning, etc. So I dropped it. I stopped keeping tabs. Paid attention to the other things he did do. And it made a tremendous difference. And he is much more attached and endearing since I am not a seething list keeper anymore.

It is important to also consider your backgrounds. What examples have you had of good relationships? What baggage are you bringing to the relationship? And how is one problems affecting the other.

In a nutshell, like the PP said, seek counseling if you can't work this out on your own. And a reputable good counselor.

[edit on 24-12-2007 by nixie_nox]



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 06:22 PM
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Just wanna say thanks to all the people that posted advice. For the past week or so we have been working on things and everything seems to be lightening up. Will have to see how things turn out in the long term anyways. We are scheduling appointments for regular couples counseling. But things are looking pretty good now.



posted on Dec, 29 2007 @ 06:25 PM
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reply to post by deadangel23
 


The ONLY thing I would say is,
Pray about it and ask Jesus to lead you the right way on this.
I prayed all the way to the wedding day.
We've been married 12 years and are closer than ever!


[edit on 29-12-2007 by Clearskies]



posted on Jan, 2 2008 @ 10:32 AM
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Well...perhaps I spoke too soon about us being well. I am beginning to come to terms with the fact that we are simply not made for eachother. I feel compelled to not end it until one of two things happens though. Either this gets fixed rather quickly, or we allow enough time for us to both come to terms with it so a breakup wouldn't be so difficult.

As much as I'd hate to see it go...I have been in very bad relationships in the past and don't much care to marry someone whom I will be locked in constant battle with.

Thanks again for the suggestions....



posted on Jan, 3 2008 @ 03:15 PM
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DeadAnge23,

Sad to hear that you have come to this conclusion. Well..keep this in mind. Patience and longsuffering are in order here. Still ..being able to lead in this situation is in order.

My radar was telling me that this might be a possibility. I just prefered to wait and see if you would become aware of this on your own merits or demerits.

The very fact that you are able to recognize this possibility is encouraging and to me a sign of maturity. This knowlege and experience will serve you well in the future. Remember to lead...and how and for what to lead.

By the way...breakups are never difficult unless one or both partys are drama queens. You simply break it off. You leave them right where they are at. You dont sit around and accept second best conduct and drama from someone whom you expect to be capable of first and best conduct...in or out of marriage. Dont ever forget this. This is a sure sign that the break up was based on solid grounds/reasons. This kind of thing is called immaturity. It means that one side or the other is willing to give less than they think they deserve or merit. Good reasons for breaking it off. Dont let yourself get dragged into drama..and dont you engage in it either.

Godspeed,
Orangetom

[edit on 3-1-2008 by orangetom1999]



posted on Jan, 5 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by deadangel23
 


Stubbornness tends to be due to pride, usually born out of insecurities.

READ

ATTACHMENTS: Why you Love, Feel and Act The Way You do by Drs Sibcy and Clinton:

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199592798&sr=1-1

There are some good articles on the net on

REACTIVE ATTACHMENT DISORDER, TOO.

I would certainly AVOID marrying someone I fought with.

I fought with mine for a year before marriage. 9 years later she divorced me for a co-worker after lots of control/stubbornness issues.

PLEASE AVOID THE PAIN. IT'S NOT WORTH IT.

6 MONTHS IS HARDLY TIME ENOUGH FOR SUFFICIENT THERAPY, IMHO.



posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


BO XIAN is pretty much correct here. Stubborness is pride.. and often born of insecuritys. Dont let someone burden you with thier excessive insecuritys.

I have found with some peoples there insecuritys are masked by a type of aggressiveness. This can be a concept difficult to perceive if you have never taught yourself for what to observe in others or in a relationship. Often the newness or infatuation of a relationships tends to blind us to these often important tell tails.

Orangetom



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by deadangel23
Does anyone happen to have links to websites with good relatitonship advice? Anything extra would be a big helper.


Just checking some threads for the first time in a long time.

I hope you are doing better.

2 books of priceless value:

LOVE IS A CHOICE by Minirith and Meyer or Meier

and

ATTACHMENTS: Why You Love, Feel, and Act the Way You Do (Hardcover)

It's not cheap but it's the best on the topic I know.

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209125450&sr=8-1

The book has, I think 10 items, in the back of the book for overcoming such problems.

Researching

WWW.DOGPILE.COM...

for ATTACHMENT DISORDER

will produce a number of useful articles.

Basically, lack of especially Daddy filling love buckets the first 6-8 years of life results in tons of insecurities and junky dynamics our life-long until we work it through.

PRIDE AND SELFISHNESS are usually greatly involved and hooked. We have to decide that LOVING IN A STABLE RELATIONSHIP IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN SELFISHNESS AND PRIDE.

Love means doing the best thing for the loved one--not getting the best return for the least input.

Cheers.



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